Justin Bell

Don't worry about it, you're entitled to your opinion on the matter! When the game is released, I'll explain the concept behind the main theme. Maybe it'll put it into a new light then... maybe not. At least, it does for me!

What a shame! You're going to miss out on the full experience! I'm not sure I understand how camera angle and how close music is to the foreground correlate...? Hope the read was entertaining at least! And awesome to hear that you increased your pledge just for the live music budget. That is VERY awesome, and thank you for doing that! So, all I'm going to say about the whole live thing is - That is all.

i talk about the theme at the start screen but dunno if everyone else talks about the same. That's correct, the main theme is what plays over the start menu. The character gen music is placeholder, and currently uses Dyrford's music.

Thanks Sesuki! The mockup has some issues towardmthe end, but I agree that it came out sounding warm. I spent more time on massaging the MIDI for that than I did the other music. Regarding live stuff.... Hang tight!

I like the main theme too for the same reason That is definitely not going to happen.

Thanks for clarifying. It's understandable that the music won't suite everyone's tastes. Personal example, some people swear by Kingdom Hearts music, say that it's amazing. It's not my cup of tea, but I played the first game in spite of that and I generally enjoyed the game.\ At the end of the day, only time will tell how well the music endures. I feel good about what I wrote because I did so from the heart, as cheesy as that statement sounds. No regrets here Just getting philosophical here for a minute... Is instant memorability the only measure of a good piece of music? Is it possible that good music grows on you over time? Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt ok? I'm going to state some general opinions just for the sake of discussion. So we live in a time of sound bites, where the signal to noise ratio is heavily skewed toward noise. In many ways, the internet is one huge sensory onslaught. Every link competes with the rest, so in order to ensure the "message" is broadcast as swiftly and efficiently as possible, measures need to be taken to have that "message" cut through the competition. Hence the rise of the condensed sound bite and "miniaturization" of music and sound as a new form of short-hand communication. Whether we recognize it or not our expectations as consumers are becoming carefully groomed to accept this form of communication as the norm, if only because it's so impossible to escape. I'm not saying this is good or bad, it's just something that's happening. The music for PoE is functionally designed to be both soundtrack and background music. If it blends into the background, good! That's what it was designed to do. If it catches your attention and is memorable, good! That's also what it's designed to do. It has the capacity to do both. I concede it can be minimal, and it can have weighty pauses of silence. Again, it was deliberately designed that way, and it seems to work great in the game. The fact that it doesn't suite everyone's tastes isn't surprising, because that's a virtually impossible achievement. It'd be fool hearty for me to think that it might. Got to run now. Thanks again for the lively discussions!

Hi Hormalakh, thanks for your suggestions. We're thinking a lot about this issue too. There are a couple of things we want to do that will address your concerns, and I'm hopeful we'll be able to do that. A lot of what you're hearing has to do with the constant repeat of the ambient loops, and the highly spammy nature of the combat music which rapidly goes from 0-1000000000000000 in terms of intensity far too often. That said, yes, there will be more combat music. I'd like to do this as well. I'm hopeful I can.

I admit I'm biased, but I tend to agree.

Wow, thanks Marceror for the very kind words. It took many many years of frustration to get tone that I'm remotely happy with. A couple of sources really helped me along the way. Pumping Iron by Scott Tennant, Effortless Classical Guitar by William Kannengiser, and some friends and teachers. The book and video I mentioned above really explain nail shape and angle vs. the string. A couple other points I discovered along the way. A good nail buffer and emery board is key. First the board, then the buffer. Board for overall shape, and buff to get the "burs" out (as an old teacher of mine used to say). When you buff, make sure to buff not only the playing surface, but also the top of the nail, and the side edge too. That part is critical. Lastly, if you want to make sure you never get a buzz, play as close as you can to the right side of the fret. You'll almost never buzz there. Some other misc points, play with your footstool with the slope going down from your body to the floor. Most people play the other way, and that puts unnecessary strain on your posture at your ankle. Try it, you'll be amazed at how natural it feels. Last thing is your plucking hand position. Obviously you can get different color depending on how close to the bridge or neck you play, but for a consistent straight tone, play right at the right side of the sound hole, and it'll sound good. Woah... Guitar lessons on the PoE forum. Back to work for me!

Yes, still in the thick of it, but I've written a sizable chunk. We're definitely planning on more inn/tavern music. As for character creation, I've got a special plan for that which relates to the title theme, I think you'll approve!

I'd love to see that. I'll do what I can, no promises though.

Great observations all around, good ear! Hi AdaMusic, Thanks for your comment. We're looking into adding sliders for different parts of the game audio. No promises since it's just one of many requests, but I agree it is a desirable feature to have. I agree with your sentiment here. Whether the music endures or not has everything to do with the context of the game. In the case of the IE games, that music endures because people remember the game a whole. It's a total experience that people react to, and that's very deliberate. I'm not sure if the music for any of the IE games would elicit such fond memories if they were standalone albums and not attached to a game. I guess what I'm saying is, I'm willing to wager some opinions will be swayed one way or another after the game is played in it's entirety.

Hi theacefes, thanks for your question. None of the music you hear used pre-recorded VSTi phrases, it's all through composed. The pauses you hear are for dramatic effect, and function as a breath between phrases. Regarding the equipment, it's not really the equipment in question. It's very time consuming to get sampled instruments to sound real, so it really came down to prioritizing my time. That said, I think there may be some surprises yet that may make you a happy person.

Just catching up... Thanks for the lively discussion, its great to see so many of you involved. Yes definitely. We plan to have much more variety, the voices you hear are temporary and not really representative of the final game. Well said. This is really just a small slice of the game and music. Personally I find that game music sticks (or not) with me when I play a game a ton. When I played Skyrim for the first 10 hours, I would have been hard pressed to recall a single melody or phrase. But after 80 hours, I hear the music and it brings back good memories of the game. Ears have muscle memory, and it takes bit of time for that to sink in. For what its worth, I've been composing music as a ghost writer for many years. A couple american TV shows you may or may not heard of, Nikita, Eleventh Hour, Tomorrow People. And many many other smaller things as well. This is just the first "bigger" game that I put my name on. Hi war:head. I've been doing this a very long time, and the truth is that many many gamers play games with the game audio muted, and play their own music over things. Either that, or they are so focused on the actual game that they don't ever notice the audio. It doesn't matter if the audio is good or bad, they just do it because that's their preference or audio isn't on their radar. So when I say 33 percent don't care, what I really mean is, that the audio just isn't a priority for a good chunk of gamers out there. But I shouldn't have quoted percentages in the first place, because honestly how should I know what the breakdown is. I've seen just as many "love the music" posts as I've seen "I wish it sounded like 'favorite game x'" posts, so who really knows? If there is a chance it may influence the music I dunno how much he's composed yet. The last statement is true and what I do often. This illustrates my point exactly. Thanks for pointing this out Cluas. We haven't quite gotten to mixing the game, but we will keep this in mind. You didn't dream it! Thank Mikey Dowling for that, I like the way it sounds too. Thanks Marceror,I'm glad you like it! That was me playing. I played classical guitar for many years, and own a concert guitar which I used for the inn music.

Thank you Marceror! I'm looking for a place to include the acapella piece... I think I know where but still haven't decided 100%. Nice selection of music. The HoW soundtrack is pretty good! Some nice music in there, check it out when you have a chance:

It was bound to happen. Personally, I'm partial to BG2 and Heart of Winter's soundtracks.

We're getting close to finishing, but we still have a bit to go. We aren't quite at the point where we can look at what we have and begin to make polish type decisions, but we're getting there. Which is to say we're at about the point same we normally would be on comparable projects ("we" being the audio team...).

Yes, that's true. Expectations are very high for this project, and it can be hard to tread new ground without alienating some folks, I understand and appreciate that. Hopefully, once the game is out and people play through it they will enjoy it for what it is, and new nostalgic memories will be made. Yes! Which means that I'm not so far off the mark now am I? BG1's soundtrack is basically one big homage to Connan the Barbarian (written by Basil Poledouris). I'll take small successes where I can get them, heh. We're definitely aware of the issue and we're going to revisit that sound. Thanks for pointing this out, and glad that we inspired you to re-watch Dune

Sorry you feel that way! But I'll have to respectfully disagree on both of your points. Excellent point. 33.33333333333333% all around then.

Hmmm... I don't know guys, I think the music is pretty good! Truthfully, it's almost impossible to please everyone when it comes to music. We all have such different musical tastes, it's quite natural that not everyone will like what they hear. I figure 30% don't like it, 30% do, and 30% don't care or don't focus on music enough to notice one way or another.

There are some, but generally this is how I write music for this project. It's functionally designed to be background music on the surface, but there's depth to it if you choose to turn your attention to the music alone.

Thanks Leferd! I'm glad you liked it. That's the beauty of music, and art in general - you either like what you hear/see or you don't. No special knowledge required

Uncanny! Would you believe me if I said I was working on one now?

Hi there. Yes it's definitely useful, and I appreciate the feedback. Of course it's difficult to guarantee that I've taken the feedback in a way that will satisfy everyone's musical tastes because it's such a subjective thing, I do listen to what you guys have to say!

Finally have some time to catch up on this thread! Here we go.... Thanks! First off, great observation about percussion. The decision not to use percussion here was very deliberate. I can reassure you there will be percussion in the game, but its use will be very specific and targeted. Here's a little anecdote. I've struggled with percussion in my own compositions for a long time. In the past I tended to rely on them quite heavily as a means of generating intensity and excitement, but this often came at the expense of melodic and harmonic content. One of the scores I've been listening to a lot lately is the Hobbit: Desolation of Smaug. The thing that strikes me the most about that score is that they also used very little percussion, yet the music is often very exciting and intense without it. So it became clear to me that it was possible to rely on percussion less and let the pitched material do most of the musical 'heavy lifting'. Being conservative with percussion is definitely a more "classic" orchestration choice. I had a teacher who once compared percussion to the "seasoning" of a dish, not the "dish" itself, and that less is more. A dash here, a sprinkle there to enhance the main ingredients. But once you use too much, it can overpower the "flavor" of the primary ingredients. Of course, this is just one perspective, one use case. There is obviously an abundance of INCREDIBLE percussion driven music out there. But I think there is some truth to what he said if you're trying to create melodious music with interesting harmonies, which is exactly what I'm trying to do. This decision is in contrast to many movie and video game scores, where percussion is always part of the texture. I think many of us simply aren't accustomed to percussion always being there in some form. For example, I recently wrote the main theme for the game. As I was writing it I focused only on melody, harmony, rhythm, form, and orchestration. Even though I'm about 70% done with the theme, I still haven't introduced percussion, though I plan to eventually. Everybody's writing method is different, but I find that when I introduce percussion too early in the composition process, it has a tendency to "lock" me in to the form of the music too soon, and it's more difficult to make big changes in terms of form and structure because of that. By not having percussion as an early part of the writing process, I FEEL more free to experiment without the pressure of commitment. Thank you for the awesome compliment. "Giants" is a great sounding track, thank you for sharing it with me. I agree that some music in recent films and games can sound very similar and difficult to distinguish apart. The reason why comes down to risk management. From the perspective of movie studios and game publishers, It's financially risky to try new things, and it's safer to stick to "known quantities" in terms of musical aesthetics. It's not uncommon for a composer to come to a project with a desire to express their own unique brand of creativity. And it's also not uncommon for them to be asked by the client to make their music "sound like" this other popular game or movie. Because of the freelance nature of music composition, the decision usually comes down to the question of job security. If you want to keep working, you have to make the client happy, and if that means making yet another Hans Zimmer sounding score, then that's what it means. It boils down to a question supply and demand, and most working composers do their best to stay in demand.