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Stun

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  1. Stun
    ^It might not be so Deep. The "deepness" of the mega dungeon has not yet been revealed to us. It could be a tower-like structure with mostly above ground levels and only a few subterranean levels.
  2. Stun
    I want Durlag's tower x3. Come to think of it, the levels in Durlag's tower weren't all that distinct from one another. Nor did the dungeon have too many puzzles, or any sort of eco-system. It was just.... really cool. It had the atmosphere. And the loot. And a decent story. Edit: it also had rooms and corridors. I hope the Mega dungeon here has that. I'd rather not have it be all cavernous, like IWD's Dragon's Eye.
  3. Stun
    Indeed. In fact, logic would dictate that creating a game like BG2 would actually be much cheaper today than what it cost to make it in 1999-2000 (which was about $5-6 million IIRC) But my gut is telling me that Obsidian might be focussing their resources a bit differently. There might end up being more content in Eternity than in BG2 even if it ends up being a smaller game. For example, take a look at the companions in BG2. All of them were memorable, sure, but they were still kinda... empty. I mean, aside from Romances dialogues and the occasional one-liner interjections during major quests, therre was nothing to them. I'm betting the companons in Eternity are going to be far more fleshed out. Another similar example is the stronghold, and the crafting. BG2 had several Strongholds. Again, they were memorable, but relatively speaking there wasn't much to them. But we know for a fact that while Eternity will only have 1 stronghold, it's going to be far more massive, content-wise, than the ones in BG2. Ditto with Crafting. BG2 didn't even have crafting. It just had artifact pieces that could be put together at Cromwell's forge. But Eternity's crafting is going to be quite a bit more engaging and fleshed out. There's Value in that kind of stuff. The problem is that when people talk about "game size", the measurement they use is 1) # of areas; 2) # of quests 3) the scope of the story. They don't usually factor in the *density* of everything.
  4. Stun
    That's how I read it. But really, he's not saying anything here. BG2 is freakishly massive. With the exception of maybe the Elder Scrolls, all games are going to be smaller than BG2. Me, I just want good density. I'll take 2 wilderness areas filled with lots of stuff to do in them, vs. 4 wilderness areas where there's nothing to do but walk around, look at the scenery and maybe engage in a couple of fights.
  5. Stun
    A fighter-Mage can also use mage wands. The difference, of course, is that he'll be better with his bow, and he'll have more spells. Perhaps underpowered is the wrong word to describe Bards. How about... Redundant.
  6. Stun
    Bards are underpowered in every game they're in. Ever tried playing a bard in BG1? They're worthless.
  7. Stun
    True. I'm pretty sure that classes in D&D (specifically) did not even start from "scratch". But rather, they began from old literature/Mythology and D&D creators simply took the accepted stereotypes (mages are scrawny, frail brainiacs with staves; Fighters are tough warriors) then plugged them in to a D20 system. But If we're going to get that pedantic, then lets not give Josh Sawyer more credit than he deserves. He's not starting from scratch either. I'm pretty sure the classes in Eternity drew fairly heavily, at conception, from what has already been created in other systems. More to the point. I find it really *really* hard to believe that he sat down and began creating Barbarians and Wizards as "equals" then methodically worked from there to make them distinct.
  8. Stun
    If that's true, then it's a pointless *nothing* statement. Because it's how every single system ever made starts out in its creator's head. I'll pretend I'm Gary Gygax and do it for AD&D. Watch: Lets create the Fighter and Mage concept from scratch. Lets start them out equal and then conceptually pull them apart until we get a comfortable distinction. Conception Phase: Mage and Fighter concepts are Brought into existance. they are equal in every way. (literally. Level 0 Humans) Now, Lets "pull them apart" and create 2 distinct classes 1) I want the fighter to be more hardy than a mage. Result: Fighter starts out with more Hit points (d10 vs. d4). 2) I want the fighter to have to wear armor to protect himself from blows, and I want the mage to have to cast spells to protect himself from Blows. Result: Fighters can wear armor. Mages can get the 1st level Spells Armor, and Shield. 3) I want the fighter to have to use weapons to do damage. I want the mage to have to use spells to do damage. Result: Fighters get weapon proficiencies, and weapon damage bonusses. Mages get Spell slots and offensive spells. There you go. ^^^ AD&D's Fighter and Mage birth process.
  9. Stun
    In other words, it's exactly like 3.5ed D&D, except that multi-classing is being replaced by class-divergent talents?
  10. Stun
    Well, sawyer says this in the OP's link: I read this to mean that yes, at fresh-baby-Level 1, you won't be able to distinguish between a Monk and a Mage. The Differences will obviously become apparent as you advance and take the class specific talents and skills. Note: before I get slammed. I'm not at all criticising any part of the system, which IMO seems to be going in a really cool direction. I'm just seeking some clarity. Some specifics.
  11. Stun
    <----Native English speaker here. Trust me, it's not all that clear to me either. When it comes to combat features/mechanics, Sawyer and crew have been maddeningly vague. As it stands, I feel more in the dark on it now than I did before we were told anything. Ok, In this interview (and in others), Sawyer has stuck to just describing the Perameters of everything. 2 Examples: 1) There's no Round or turn system ala the Infinity engine games and AD&D. -Alright. And? What does this mean, exactly? Does it mean that a mage can cast a spell every second without pause? That a fighter's attack volume is 100% dependent on how fast he can swing his weapon and nothing else? And here's a bonus question: if my Barbarian is using a Sword and shield, will I have the option to forgo a blocking action with my shield in favor of 2 swinging actions with my sword in the same time frame instead? 2) Classes won't be as rigidly defined as they are in D&D and the infinity engine games. -in the IE games, you knew your classes. You are a Rogue. And Rogues can't wear heavy armor. They can't use shields. They can't use Greataxes, 2-h swords or Polearms. etc. But in Eternity we're told that all these class-based restrictions are.... removed in favor of an "every class starts out virtually the same and then branches out in their own direction as they advance" system. K.... I can wrap my head around that, I guess. It's a system somewhere in between Skyrim and D&D 3.5. But.... I still want to know some fundamental details. For example, Can I make a Mage who wears Heavy armor, and uses a Giant Axe, and will there be mage skills/talents/perks to allow me to use my Armor and axe more effectively? And if so, then by definition, aren't I playing a fighter at this point instead of a mage?
  12. Stun
    ^Release date moved a ton since the kickstarter's 1st day. We've gone from April 2014 (what the Kickstarter page said), to Winter 2014 (what the backer portal says). So.... 8 months? Not sure what caused this.... oh wait. Yes I do. The stretch goals they added after day three. 1) second big city; 2)15 level Mega Dungeon 3) Stronghold 4) more classes 5) more companions 6) more races 7) more game modes. Of course, we could look at this and say... well #1-7 only caused an 8 month delay, therefore, a few new wilderness areas and 3 new companions shouldn't cause a delay of more than a month or two. But I'm pretty sure that's a giant oversimplification of things and I doubt the process works that way at all.
  13. Stun
    Say what? Try 70,000+. 10s of thousands of people. 10s of thousands of people who would love such a thing so much that they have effectively Pre-ordered this game 2 years in advance to prove their eagerness, after watching a Kickstarter video who's entire message was: "Do you love the IE games? So do we. So we're gonna make a game like them. Back Us." As for "moving on". I don't know. "Moving on" has not been adequately defined in this discussion. I imagine, though, that most people here are absolutely delighted in the fact that we're getting a new campaign, taking place in a new world, and featuring new races, new classes, and a new Ruleset - all totally different from Baldurs Gate, contrary to your claim that the game so far looks like a BG ripoff.
  14. Stun
    LOL Yeah, I understand impatience. But we're all long time gamers, and we've all gotten hyped up for a game we thought would be great, only to see it littered by Bugs, lack of polish, lack of wholeness, rushed endings etc. And then we learn later that the reason for all the above is because it had to be pushed it out the door prematurely to satisfy a publisher's quarterly projections or schedules. The end result, of course is that we ended up getting a game that screamed: Squandered Potential here! ie. could have been great but ended up being crap. Why? Because it was rushed to the consumer to make a quick buck. Me personally, I'm interested in seeing the results of a 2-year+ Dev cycle for a 2d isometric game that gets released only when its creators believe its ready. And you all should be thinking the same way.
  15. Stun
    lol I've been searching for an answer to that for a couple days now, but Obsidian, despite their refreshing transparancy and eager willingness to discuss the development of this game, has been remarkably tight-lipped about anything relating to storylines/plots in Eternity. I'm assuming Od Nua is some.... person.
  16. Stun
    But that's... not the way you measure size or scope Osavir! I've got 209 bones in my body. My niece also has 209 bones in her body. But I'm 5'11 and weigh 200 lbs, while she's about 25 inches tall and weighs about 30 lbs. I'm much MUCH bigger in size than she is. See how that works? I can't imagine the mega dungeon being bigger than one of the game's cities, let alone 1/3rd the size of the entire game. Using just the # of areas and drawing 'estimates' of game size from that, and nothing else, is a completely erroneous way of coming to a conclusion. Why in the world are you doing such a thing?
  17. Stun
    PS: I'm not sure what this BG1 vs. BG2 discussion is about exactly but I do feel the need to point out that BG2 was, by FAR the larger game. By every definition of the word "Larger". Thus if Sawyer says that the size of Eternity will be between BG1 and BG2, then what he is saying is that it will be bigger than BG1, but smaller than BG2. Personally though, I'd take these comments with a grain of salt. They're only half way through making this game. Any such estimates, even from lead developers, are nothing more than ballpark guesses. They could end up being off by a mile in either direction by the time the game is done and shipped. LOL Ok. When the Human resources department cites a measurement like "Man Days" or "Man Hours", they are using a conceptual measuring stick not meant to directly equate to how many weeks it will take to finish an area, or a project. For example, if it takes 12 man days to complete development of 1 area, but you got 4 men working on that area together, then in real world terms, that area will be done in 3 days. That said, stop guessing, since you have no idea how Obsidian tasks out its staff for each area, nor are you taking into consideration the fact that some areas (like city districts) take far longer to make than, say, a small dungeon level.
  18. Stun
    Indeed. The suggestion is nonsense, and portrays a mind that does not grasp even basic commercial practices. I'm not sure what corner of the universe Osavir resides, but where I come from, when a company makes a promise in exchange for funds and then the paying public delivers those funds, the negotiation process is OVER. In this case, we've got a game that was kickstarted with a specific set of stretch goals - ie. promises. All were met. A YEAR ago. There's no "undoing" things now. There's no "can we take this back?" At least not unless Obsidian is willing to refund us the money we gave them and then start over. otherwise, as Satanzchild pointed out, you'd be pissing off a huge portion of the backers. 10s of thousands of them, who will never trust you again. (and good luck reaching any new stretch goals if this happens) TL:DR: No, Osavir, I Paid for a 15 level mega dungeon and Obsidian promised to deliver it. I Paid for 2 big cities and Obsidian promised to deliver them. etc. And Obsidian knows full well that failure to deliver on a financial transaction is a Death Knell for any company.
  19. Stun
    Ideas that none of us here support. Ideas that even you admit you don't support. LOL Conclusion: Pointless discussion is pointless. Back on topic. I think I saw Josh somewhere citing BG1 and BG2 as benchmarks - saying that Eternity currently has about as many as BG2, but that Ideally, he'd like to see the number of wilderness areas be somewhere in between what BG1 had and what BG2 had. As for the Beneficial question... I guess that's completely up to the individual player or developer to define such a thing. Me personally, I think a number in between BG1 and BG2 would be fantastic. One of the very few Legitimate criticisms of BG2 was that it was really lacking wilderness areas. I hope PE has more of them. If for no reason but to balance out the vast urban exploration that we're going to get (2 big cities but hardly any wilderness? No. lets not neglect the wilds).
  20. Stun
    What?? You suggested a staggered episode-release formula whereas we do not get a complete game on day one. Instead, we get a piece of a game on day one, followed by another piece every couple of weeks for 3 f**king months. Good God. NO. No Illusion of "cost-saving" justifies that. And I neither have the time, nor the sanity to delve into the 10,000 obvious other reasons why such a model would destroy Pillars of Eternity outright, as well as any other semi open-ended, exploration-based game. I'll just say... No Thanks. Please go play your little walking dead game, in all its pieces, and leave Eternity, unfractured, for the rest of us. No. it isn't. They've completed work on the mega dungeon already. Your suggestion that they break their promises and then scrap part of the hard work they've already done in order to create more wilderness areas to offer us as a stretch goal is (almost) as nonsensical, unviable, and financially ass-backwards as your other suggestions. Can we put a lid on the alternative brainstorming excercises now? It's off topic anyway. The devs aren't asking for budget restructuring suggestions. Right here. At 13:49
  21. Stun
    Are you being sarcastic? That's got to be the stupidest idea I've ever heard. The industry is already suffering from the disgusting disease of micro-transaction gaming. The hopelessly tragic practice of publishers and devs milking us dry with bare-boned games that need a billion DLCs to make the experience feel whole. Yet you want them to expand on that nickel and diming garbage by denying us the ability to get even the BASE game all at once? Go away, please. And, PS: No. they couldn't. We earned a 15 level mega dungeon. Not a 12 level mega dungeon. And they're finished with it anyway, so this is a moot non-point/suggestion from you.
  22. Stun
    ^And the argument is meaningless guesswork anyway. Nowhere, in any interview, post, or video has any Obsidian dev claimed that the addition of more wilderness areas and 3 new companions will lead to "huge catostrophic delays" I wonder how the vote results would go if BAdler or Josh or whoever would have come on here and pointed out, in the OP, that the Wilderness areas would be outsourced (thus costing extra money, and not extra time), for example.
  23. Stun
    ...The one game feature I'm probably looking forward to the most in this entire game. There's no major point to this thread except to pool knowledge and perhaps to voice comments or concerns about what has been revealed recently about the Endless Paths of Od Nua. First off, here's the stuff *I* was able to catch: ---They've finished working on it (link) --- Players will find it early in their adventure (link) ---15 levels, as promised. Some of those levels are small, others are huge (link) ---it gets progressively tougher as you go from one level to the next, and this progression is faster than your level advancements while doing it (link) ---Which means you'll likely want to leave and come back throughout the game. And you'll be able to do so via teleporters or level exits (Link) ---It touches the main plot, or as Josh put it: "the player has to dip his toes into it on the critical path" (link) --- It's nothing like any of the dungeons from the infinity engine games, but (flavor-wise?) it's similar to Dragon's Eye from IWD1 (link) That's all the new stuff I've found. If any of you Obsidian-dev Stalkers/Fans know of comments that Josh or Adam or whoever have made on Formspring or Something Awful or the codex or whatever on the subject, please post them here. ------ Now, my viewpoints. This all sounds really cool. I only have one concern. And it's about the last point. I.... don't want it to remind me of Dragon's Eye. Way back during the Kickstarter, when one of the devs came to the forums and floated the idea of a mega-dungeon to us, the majority began citing mostly 2 examples of what they wanted to see: 1) Something like Durlag's Tower and 2) something like Watcher's Keep. Neither of these two are particularly cavernous like Dragon's eye. Not that there's anything wrong with Caverns, but when I think of a good old fashioned mega *dungeon*, Dragon's Eye-like complexes do not spring to mind. That's all.
  24. Stun
    I do find the very existance of this thread interesting. Typically, at this point in production Scope Creep is the big impending threat. But here, we apparently have the opposite going on: A developer proposing to expand the already existing scope of the game.
  25. Stun
    Ditto. On both statements. I have absolutely no problem waiting longer for quality. So Yes. Give us some new stretch goals. Make them Great, then take the time you need to make them worth the wait. Obviously. It strictly depends on 1) the Content; and 2) Who's creating this content #1 is hit and miss in general. I've played some games where more wilderness areas has, in fact, enriched the experience (BG1), and others where the wilderness areas didn't mean a damn thing to the experience (BG2) As for #2, C'mon. This is Obsidian we're talking about here, and perhaps specifically Chris Avellone. It's virtually a given that a couple more companions will only make the game better.
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