Sensuki

Ah okay. Well yeah I PM'd him/posted in the thread, so I'll try and get an output_log.txt for ya

What real-time game is more tactical? That's right - I campaigned for it to be removed. I made threads, and I even modded it out myself and made a video of it, and demonstrated a problem with it.

RTwP is twitch free is because it is Real Time With Pause. If you're disagreeing about DotA being tactical then you clearly don't know much about the game. It is lightning fast, but you have to make tactical decisions ALL the time, you are constantly doing it. EVERYTHING matters - movement, positioning, ability timing, ability order, ability synergy, using the terrain and fog of war ... there are so many decisions you make every few seconds that are tactical decisions, and most of them you do without thinking. It's fast, but it is super tactical. I think they make the combat less tactical, because they penalize certain tactics, pigeonholing you into using certain strategies instead.

I'm surprised a reviewer would have a 32-bit system. They'd probably want a 64-bit one for latest games right? The guy is also the IGN Editor (says on his GAF profile), so maybe it's a Mac or some other problem.

There are movement-related abilities and talents, but using something like Wild Sprint after you've made an attack (which you know, is when you want to use it) forces you to stand still to wait until the ability goes off because it's pointless to move first with the recovery slow, because it will take ages to go off.

I don't see how the fact that I have stated that I am going to mod it out of the game changes a single thing. A bad mechanic is a bad mechanic. It's also really stupid that it promotes standing still until you've recovered to use a movement based ability, because that is faster than moving and then using it.

The only posts you've made on this forum are in two threads to respond to me when I've been discussing topics related to sticky movement. You are not here to discuss the topic, so I'm not going to bother to reply to you anymore.

Pretty sure you knew exactly what I was talking about there bud, but feel free to twist it your way because you have a personal problem with me. Turn rate is not a movement penalty either, it's part of the movement system. Abilities that slow down the turn-rate such as the Batriders Sticky Napalm create a movement penalty, but not a systemic one. You don't have a lower turn rate by taking certain actions in the game (such as moving, or attacking), it's simply one turn-rate for each unit. It's a different philosophy to the one used in Pillars of Eternity (and a much better one).

I'd take your own advise there erragal - one only has to read the insults you put towards me in that thread to find that ironic.

THAT would be tactical - Slow Ogre with big hits, require you to micro your guys around so he has to turn around a lot or suffer b1g damage - makes you react to what he's doing I'm sure some people would hate that.

We were actually thinking of going BG style for that Karkarov, you can build the outside of the portrait into the UI, and just have the inner bit with a highlight line in the space around the portrait. That would probably be the best way to do it I suppose. The problem I see with textures like the log is yeah, there's not much room for editing as it has to conform to the same dimensions and the way that the log is stretched (by repeating the same pixels). At present we won't be able to take the texture and solid border that Karkarov's UI has and stretch that, because it requires more space for repeating patterns/etc

Loading times are quicker in v480. They're still pretty slow for large areas on a mechanical 7200RPM hard drive though.

Ohhhh now I remember you For those interested: Read this thread Turn speed does not affect the recovery/attack speed of a unit. It only affects your ability to begin moving to the side or behind you from your current position (or turning to hit other targets). I actually would not have complained if this game had turn speed/turning mechanics - but it doesn't. It would have been fun to run in circles around an Ogre who couldn't turn as fast as you.

But ... it doesn't? You're not going to take Fast Runner to offset this penalty, because the difference it makes is well probably less than 50ms or something each time you move to the next target - if that. It's really unimpactful. I actually am not sure that it makes fast moving worthwhile - I actually think it might be a negative - gonna test it. Okay so, it's useless for movement based abilities, because after you make an attack, you go into recovery if you move you'll be slowed down from using that ability - so for Barbarian Wild Sprint, for example - you should NOT move until your recovery has ticked down and THEN you should move after Wild Sprint has ticked down, because you'll get to your destination faster than moving after you attack (and you'll have no recovery remaining because it's a no recovery ability) ROFL ROFL How DUMB IS THAT LOL

I think he's just making an assumption. As far as I know the slowing of recovery has not been spoken about at all. They don't publish a list of changes in patches, and probably deliberately too. Who is this post aimed at? It doesn't really have anything to do with the discussion other than to say that you think kiting is derp. I also play DotA 2, and have played DotA since 2004. DotA is the most tactical game there is. It also has no movement penalties, and a similar recovery system to Pillars of Eternity.

But it doesn't even remotely address kiting. It makes it easier In every isometric real time game that has large maps, ranged enemies and different movement speeds - you can kite. You can add as many detrimental systems to the game to try and prevent it, but they usually end up only harming other elements of the gameplay, and not really addressing kiting at all. Total War actually addresses it fairly well with realism - units get tired after running and run slower. This is not Total War though, it's an Infinity Engine style RPG.

I don't like restricted or penalized movement by default systems in the game. Total War - sure, fine. But not this.

Well, not a moving one anyway. You'd be going into the thick of things with Plate armor and soaking hits for the party while everyone else gets it done. It is a bit like spitting in your coffee, isn't it ?

It makes a difference - one unarmored guy with a sword moving a few metres in the game slows your recovery down for about a second on top of the 1H penalty. Imagine that as a 2H attack in Plate armor, or a 3 second cast time Wizard spell.

I did notice it, and I looked for it in the code but couldn't find anything. Most of the testing I do is looking for bugs, you'd be surprised how little actual playing I do. I think about 90% of my game time is quickly loading a save and testing for bugs on the starting encounter against Medreth or in no encounter at all (usually UI bugs). Also recovery bars are no longer shown unless you're holding TAB or you have that unit selected. By the way - in the last patch, Dexterity was bugged so characters that had higher than 10 Dexterity had slower recovery time instead of faster recovery time. The BB Rogue, BB Priest and BB Wizard all have higher than 10 Dexterity from memory, so it would have been a lot harder for people to notice in the last build because of that.

Oh yeah, that's true. Either way, Fast Runner adds one movement point I think, the difference will almost always be next to nothing. You would most definitely not pick the ability to offset movement recovery slowing because the benefit you get from it is tiiiiiiny. The only time I've ever chosen Fast Runner was on the character I use to kite enemies when I have the rest with ranged off to the side. I think Naumtree uses it with his kiting chanter build too, either way - it's used to get away, not to offset this. It hurts the characters that make many small movements in combat the most. What they do doesn't really affect me - we are removing it. Simple as that. However I'm angered that this was not broached because these kind of things are a hot potato, they tried to sneak it by us without saying anything. I believe it was also in v435 - so it's been in the game for a while. I think they added it in over the Christmas break. I thought movement recovery was slowed in the last patch, but when I checked the NotifyAttackComplete code in AttackBase I couldn't find anything that was doing it. Looked in the wrong class lol. It's strange that they handle recovery time calculations at two different places in the code though.

I don't think that it's intentionally done to force people to play it like "Medieval Total War 6 man party". It's done for some other reason - it playing like that is just the side-effect. It's not only horrible but it's anti-Infinity Engine. It's not an interesting mechanic because doesn't add any choice, it just punishes choices. It punishes mobile builds, and punishes you for using anything other than the same clump positional tactic. This is bad. I think it does feel artificial, and definitely not realistic either but that doesn't really matter. I haven't seen any argument about Engagement in the thread so far. I don't intend to argue with anyone about it either, I intend to argue about movement slowing recovery time - with equal fervor, but probably less vitriol.

I don't think that putting in that I want it to play more like an RTS is a bad thing because the Infinity Engine games were built on the Battleground Infinity Engine, which was an RTS Prototype, and they feel a lot like an RTS-RPG. It might be distracting to some people who come from the opposite end of the spectrum and prefer turn-based combat and "RPG Combat" if that is a thing. THE *BEST* thing about the Infinity Engine games was the combat feel. No Attack of Opportunity crap. Movement and actions came at the same cost (which many D&D players hated, because you couldn't move and then do 5 attacks per round). Perfect transition from something like Warcraft 2 or AoE2. Agreed. It's a double whammy.

A friend gave me his CDs for Dark Sun Shattered Lands.

And neither do you. I am stating my opinion, and there are people here (as evident in the thread) that agree with me. My battles are not completely static, but the game promotes playing statically. If you're asking me how I play you probably haven't watched me play either game. There's already enough penalties to movement as is, adding more is just hilariously bad IMO. Most of the developers prefer turn-based combat, and play P&P. A lot of the decisions they make cannot help be influenced by thinking of how things work in either of these styles of game. IMO for real-time gameplay you should design around the benefits of the style - and in my opinion this is the exact opposite. Out of EVERYTHING in the game - combat feel is the thing I feel the most strongly about, and this is a smack right in the jaw in that regard.