Darth Trethon

It's one of those things that was amazing in its time and would impress so much that it became so unforgettable if you played it in its day.....nostalgia makes it amazing. But playing it now after so many years and with the industry having come so far....well....it's just not that good and its flaws are all the more glaring.

1) Not really no. I might buy the game at base price or wait for a discount after all parts are out or I might as well not buy it at all. Still...it's no replacement for me giving them $200 or more during a KS campaign because I want the game to be better. So they'd easily lose quite a bit from each dedicated fan they lost here. 2) Sure but can you assume that the so called "silent masses" would all jump on episodic content? Not any more than I can assume they would all skip it but generally people take a dislike to investing in incomplete things they may well never see and end to. 3) Again once something is well past its beginning it becomes less likely for people to jump in due to no caring to catch up and having other stuff going on. And all the bits from number one above apply. 4) Inconsequential.....there's no acknowledgement of the DLC in DA2 and you play a different character so there's no recognition from their part. If you haven't played the DLC it's no different than meeting any other new character DA2 introduces. Beyond that the base DAO game has a clear beginning, middle and end with all the in-between quests having all their content....you don't hit any stop at any point that prevents you from pursuing the arch-demon to the end because you only bought a portion of the game and the rest will be released at an undetermined time. I have way too much to play and at least half a dozen games I bought but haven't got a chance to play on the short list.....once they lose my attention it's done. I may as well never buy the game at all.

You have to complete the pledge management process first. You won't get any badges until you do.

1) I'll wait for complete content. No compromise here, will NOT buy or back incomplete content. 2) How many others? There's plenty opposition to the incomplete episodic proposition even on these boards and this thread. This game got 4 mil for proposing a complete game....it would have got significantly less for proposing a slice and sales are always a big unknown but generally those opposed to backing incomplete content would not buy incomplete content either. Is Obsidian willing to give the big finger to all opposing incomplete content? You won't see any opposition to complete content that's for sure, not when a basic pledge of $20 will get you the entire game. 3) And again, you're assuming something that is a plain fallacy. Significantly less people will buy an episode than would buy an entire game and additional coverage will not get all of them back. Nearly all games have their big sales happen in the first few days and episodes won't help. If I hear that episode 3 of some thing I didn't know about is coming out I won't care because I won't be bothered to catch up with one and two.....this is a very common trend observable in all forms of media.....TV shows, books, etc. 4) But that's not the same thing....every backer gets a complete game, the expansion provides more of that for those that really enjoyed it but it's not a per-requisite to enjoying the full game we get on day one and will be funded by Obsidian themselves not using KS funds. If it doesn't happen the backers won't be left with an incomplete experience.

I think most will agree and that this is the overall most sensible sentiment even among Obsidian, not just the fans, which is why I suspect they've said next to nothing about it except they hope to be able to talk about it around March/April....by which point the Beta may presumably be out or at least we'll have seen plenty more gameplay footage. The first bit of gameplay shown in the first trailer suggests that more lengthier demos may not be too far ahead and personally I am pleased with what we've seen so far.

Yes, and the game will also be sold DRM free through GOG so even in territories not explicitly supported in their local language people will still be able to buy and play the game as long as they understand one of the supported languages. Not to mention that over time there will be fan-made translations for some more languages that will be implemented through mods.

So I guess you don't watch TV series either, read book series or watch movies that require a sequel to get the full story out... And why the **** would you think that episodic means someone has been mismanaging funds? 1) It's a way to get a bigger game out in parts that could take otherwise way way too long for the fans. Case example Half-Life Episodes (and yes, I know the 3rd part still hasn't come out). But imagine if the game fans were still waiting for Half-Life 3 since they didn't release the games as episodic content. And well since Valve is Valve, I doubt they were in dire need for cash either. 2) It's a way to test if there's a market/fans for a new game idea. Less of a risk, especially if funded by the developer. Producing 5x 10-15 hour episodic games vs. 1x 50-75 hour game. Kickstart episode 1 of the said game, and release next ones with whatever profit you are making with Kickstarted Episode 1. 3) From a marketing point a view it's also pretty damn good idea. You get five times the exposure in reviews, previews etc. if you do 5 episodes compared to the 1 game you would do. Sure, the costs for marketing campaing might go up, but still your product is featured more often with fresh content instead of just showing a new trailer of the same game you've been marketing for the last year. 4) For a new customer it's easier to buy something that costs 10-20 dollars than something that costs 50 dollars. I personally would have never paid 50 dollars for any TellTale's games since I had no idea if I would actually like their style of games. But since they release them one episode at a time, it's easier for me to throw ten bucks at the company and test out their games. And I imagine I'm not the only one, seeing how popular their games have turned out little by little I don't watch TV the way you'd think no. I watch series after they are completely finished. Too many have extremely poor endings or no endings at all because they are no planned to end....they are planned to keep selling and selling and when their ratings start to drop the creators don't work towards giving it a proper ending but towards getting everyone excited again so when the imminent doom is inevitable they scramble together a poor excuse for an ending. Well in the case of Double Fine Adventure it's easy to say exactly why funds were mismanaged: they admitted the 3.3 mil(800%) funding they got from KS is not enough to finish the game....basically they're going to be broke way too early....so they are going to sell half the game and finish the second half using the profits. But what if it doesn't sell? Or what if it sells really poor? That puts at risk everything....the backers could easily end up left with half a game or receive a severely sub-par second half. And the project was backed for 800% to original asking!!! The biggest question then remains....what would they have done if they barely made what they asked for if they can't manage with eight times as much? 1) Way too long for the fans? That's a joke right? I decide what's too long, when I play and for how long I play. I couldn't care less if the game took 1000 hours to complete, I do NOT and will NEVER pay for a part of a game. I won't back and won't buy. 2) Poor way to "test" because many like me couldn't care less if it's the greatest thing ever and walks on water, I don't buy unfinished content. I would only even start considering it after the final episode is out and production is done. Even then I would start to look into whether it had a quality ending before dropping a cent. Besides, Kickstarter itself is a tool designed to measure interest....no need to further compromise the game. 3) Five times exposure? That's assuming each outlet will run a story every time a chapter is released....bad assumption. And then there's a huge industry statistic that less than 20% of the people who buy a game(as in a complete one) ever actually finish it. Most get distracted and lost along the way. If they want extra coverage they should do more honest expansions like the one they have planned for after they finish the game, not ship an unfinished game. 4) These won't be $50 dollar games even complete, PoE is $35 and neither Wasteland 2 nor TToN will be $50. If they are that concerned with providing a cheap way to try a game they should do a free demo....nothing beats the price of free for a trial.

Leave the poor guy alone....he's already doing great things for us on three KS projects at the same time...Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2 and Torment: Tides of Numenera....not to mention writing a novels on the side too that tie into those games. I'm shocked he still has any time to sleep, let alone play Arcanum. Those are games I think nearly all backers of Pillars of Eternity will get at release if they haven't pledged for already. So please, let the guy work and I sure hope he also gets some solid time off during christmas and the new year to spend with his family and rest even if it delays these games a little bit.

Funny you'd say that and ignore the amazing open world game for Obsidian themselves....Fallout New Vegas, no watered down plot(in fact it was much enriched from Bethesda's Fallout 3) and sure as hell no lack of choice and consequence. An absolute masterpiece. I see no reason to doubt Obsidian on this and no reason to think anything will be watered down.

We stand by two different opinions here, and I respect yours, but I don't think it is garbage. I am curious though, where do you get your opinion and experience from? Why do you think episodic content is garbage if you've never experienced it? And if you have experienced it, which game that released episodic content made you feel that way? Episodic garbage means they've mismanaged funds and are hoping to complete the game with funds from a piece of a game that in essence puts the entire game in danger of never seeing an end or getting very poor quality completion. I don't care what they say or promise, the moment the word "episodic" comes in I am out and that's the end of that nonsense. Example: look at the Peeny Arcade game....episodic, was shut down after episode 2. Penny Arcade is 4 episodes bro. Episode 3 is actually really good (Episode 4 was a bit of a disappointment, I haven't even finished it). I do not think it's the best example to make either, in fact I think it's a really bad example to make, mostly because of the nature of the game (it is a comical and, honestly, kind of below average game with below average mechanics) and that Penny Arcade aren't even video game developers (they are closer to be "journalists" and webcomic comedy), which means they hired a low-cost studio to make games for them. I remember them writing an article on their site saying something like "Video games costs a lot to make" and explaining why Episode 3 might never see the light of day (Thanks to Zeboid, it did, in a different and much better format). No ill againt the developers of the two first Penny Arcade games but... they were pretty bland in comparison to many more serious games. They made me laugh, chuckle and facepalm in a comedic fashion, which is the exact reason why I played them. Not because I thought "THESE GAMES ARE SO GOED!", but because I support Penny Arcade and wanted some light entertainment. If Obsidian, or BioWare, or maybe Blizzard, would release episodic games (Oh.. wait! StarCraft II! Scratch that last one), then I imagine the game itself with it's plot would carry itself very well. Regardless if it is episodic- or full game release. EDIT: I suspect you haven't played StarCraft II or that it isn't your genre even to begin with so *shrug* really~ seeing as it isn't a complete game and all by your standards. I am aware of Episodes 3 and 4 but look how the quality dropped to complete crap....they'd be better off if never made. Beyond that the point stands....sales talk, it doesn't matter who is making the episodic crap....if it doesn't sell it WILL be shut down, there's no what, if, ands or buts about it. Especially for a crowdfunded episodic game. I also look at another kickstarter hit that dropped into grossly missmanaging funds: Double Fine Adventure....was backed for 800% of the original asking and now plan to release half a game to finish the second half using the profits.....but what if it doesn't sell? Then the backers are boned and left with half a game after backing the thing for 3.3 million. Sorry, no episodic garage for me.

We stand by two different opinions here, and I respect yours, but I don't think it is garbage. I am curious though, where do you get your opinion and experience from? Why do you think episodic content is garbage if you've never experienced it? And if you have experienced it, which game that released episodic content made you feel that way? Episodic garbage means they've mismanaged funds and are hoping to complete the game with funds from a piece of a game that in essence puts the entire game in danger of never seeing an end or getting very poor quality completion. I don't care what they say or promise, the moment the word "episodic" comes in I am out and that's the end of that nonsense. Example: look at the Peeny Arcade game....episodic, was shut down after episode 2.

I can see the frustration but I've always been one that cared all about the story, choices and consequences to the point that combat and gameplay was nearly inconsequential to me. The first two Fallouts were turn based iirc and besides I thought they made a decent effort to address the concerns regarding the weaknesses and failures of turn-based combat.

Did you read santanzchild's post above yours? Cus he gives a perfect example where the content actually does not suffer for it, and could've been handled in a sort of "Episodic Release" dealio. EDIT: However, something I just realized... an open world RPG released in Episodes could suffer from one thing and that is Power Gaming. - Game releases with 1 Episode (Epside 1). I finish this Episode in one weekend... but then what? I have to wait of course but... suddenly I have hours to spend in this first Episode to kill time with and find easter eggs and level up my character substantially. There would have to be some sort of "cliffhanger" or some sort of thing to signal the Player "There's no more content at this time" in an immersive fashion (so that the content indeed does not suffer). - IF I am allowed to power level during Episode 1 and when Episode 2 comes out, I'd run through it like a rampaging train without any worries. Thus, content suffers. Something to consider @Obsidian. Episodic content is garbage. I'm not backing it and would never buy anything less than a complete game. Episodic garbage means they've mismanaged funds and are hoping to complete the game with funds from a piece of a game that in essence puts the entire game in danger of never seeing an end or getting very poor quality completion. I don't care what they say or promise, the moment the word "episodic" comes in I am out and that's the end of that nonsense.

I'm not they'll be able to drop people from the Eternity team actually, during post-pro. Kaz and Polina are needed for portraits & paintovers, UI & menus - so both the concept artists have to stay at least for some of the time. Josh will need to stay on for balancing stuff and overall vision, he's the main guy behind this. All of the programmers have their own little jobs - Tim handles the class implementations and the stronghold, Adam handles the 'engine stuff', Steve the gameplay and AI. They'll all need to be there handling bug fixing. Mark Bremerkamp will be animating ... forever. Dimitri and James will also be on full time right until the end, polishing all the models. Hector and Sean (& co) will need to be on right until the end to fix up all the areas. Bobby and Jorge will be adding/tweaking content (and the design interns prob) And the writers will be writing companions, adding reactivity and polishing dialogues right up until the end as well. So yeah I don't really know who they could drop really, besides a few interns. They've got A LOT of work to do. We payed for an extensive post-production as well. What he possibly means is that the pre-production team will be a different team entirely, and they will transition some of the Eternity team over to the new Kickstarter, and keep some (Josh, others) for PE to train more staff up on Unity and the new way of doing things. A LOT of those are finalized before full production even starts....conept art, definitely writing and character creation etc, etc, etc. Plus they have teams that will free up from other games too. South Park will be done pretty soon as it releases in March and shouldn't see any more delays. Not to mention that by late production a lot of other things are done....like animations and game mechanics(including AI). The game is supposed to be out in late 2014 so by March-April they should definitely be able to get crunching on another game.

I gave a gold level pledge for Torment: Tides of Numenera.....that Kickstarter hit me a lot harder in terms of nostalgia.

I thought Oblivion's ending was complete and utter crap. You end up being some random errand boy/girl to a sad noble that barely bothers to get out of bed in the morning but does some cool stuff and turns into a gigantic statue at the very end in order to get all the credit....oh and you're a nobody, did I mention that? I played Skyrim for a bit and there was nothing wrong with the game itself but I ended up just abandoning it....largely because Oblivion's ending was complete and utter crap....so I figured why even bother with this crap anymore?

No, it should have "Previously Used" status....meaning you used your pledged funds to select and finalize your reward tier and addons if you have any. And at the bottom it should read: "Total Credit Available 0.00" meaning you used all your pledged funds toward a tier and addons.

It doesn't look like you completed the pledge management process. You won't get any badges until you do that.

Well, The Witcher 3 and Dragon Age: Inquisition are the two upcoming ones off the top of my head, but http://lmgtfy.com/?q=open+world+rpgs+2014 Also please don't do that thing where you paint anyone who's remotely critical of something as spazzing, raving, frothing at the mouth, etc. This is just my early feedback. Their final pitch may look vastly better. If so, great! And if you like what we've heard so far, that's cool too. I merely disagree. I simply see no point to heavy criticism at this point. Hell I'd argue The Witcher and Dragon Age are vastly different, the gameplay itself as well the stories are extremely different. And I'm not sure about inquisition but the other Dragon age games weren't open world. You can point to a billion shooter clones but there really isn't any of that for open world games.....they're all unique and vastly different. Look at the latest AAA open world: Assassin's Creed IV.....it's nothing like any of the others. This is true for all of them. Even Skyrim is not even close to the Dragon Age games so far.

Wasteland 2 has not been released. What you see on steam is for Beta testing. Most Wasteland 2 backers don't have access to Beta and we don't. I'll be getting Wasteland 2 from my Torment: Tides of Numenera pledge which is made by the same studio developing Wasteland 2, inXile.....but that's later, when the game is actually released, and that's still a while off.

Like "everyone" else? Who's everyone? What's wrong with open world games? I don't think there's anything remotely similar between New Vegas and Skyrim. Aren't you spazzing a bit early here? We literally know nothing about the game so calm down. There's nothing wrong with talking popular base concepts to crowdfunding games as long as there's enough originality to them.

Hahahahaha....I don't think BioWare will ever hear the end of that one. Personally I think it really marks how far they've gone from their golden days. Selling their souls to EA was always going to be a bad idea, but that's when they decided to really say: f*** the gamers, we want money.

I think the key is all endings need to be satisfactory and the path up to the player. A good example would be from back when BioWare used to be good(some 10+ years ago before they went to complete crap): the Knights of the Old Republic endings were both incredibly amazing and I'd more often than not go for the dark ending because it was well done, it fit the game and it wasn't designed as a FU to the player. Too many "bad" endings are designed to mock the player as if saying: "hahaha you douche, you should have stuck to cliche notions of good, go back and try again!! Make sure you don't screw up on selecting the correct answers this time!!" So yeah...put happy endings and bad endings and everything in-between but they all have to feel satisfactory for the player....give us a real hard time deciding which ending we will go for every single playthrough.

Exactly wasn't the whole point of kickstarting Eternity, Tides, and Wasteland 2 because it was something publishers had no interest in. I think a publisher may serve Obsidian better if they want to make a massive open world game. Not really, you're missing the point entirely, they get none of the profits if a publisher is involved and they don't own the IP. They only get paid their wages and costs to produce the game for the publisher and that's it....maybe a bonus but not always(they never got a bonus for new vegas). An idea that would appeal to a larger audience is important and no, they would sure as hell not go to a publisher if they can avoid it. I'm in complete support of them getting the profits for the games they make as well as them retaining ownership of the IPs.

I wondered about that too. That part didn't come with a direct quote though, so maybe its just RPS assuming. No. The biggest thing will remain preproduction and most of the team is not involved in that. They can work on preproduction for the new game while the main body(all the programers and so on) work on the expansion or finishing Pillars of Eternity. That's exactly what inXile is doing....it's not like Torment is on hold until they finish Wasteland 2.