~Di

No, I don't recall contending such a thing, or jumping to any such conclusion. If you had quoted the part of my post that made you believe that, I'd be in a better position to clarify my meaning, and correct your inaccurate presumption. A treasonous population? Hmm. As in various political rebellions in, say, historical China, France, Russia and... dare I mention... the USA as well? Is that what you mean by "treasonous population"? Because one man's "treason" is, of course, another man's "populace rebellion." I do agree, however, that fringe groups which gain power can be incredibly dangerous... even religious fringe groups, as we can see not only via history, but in our current world as well. Radicals are dangerous. Religious radicals are dangerous too, and throughout history have been responsible for enormous misery and bloodshed. It's a fact. *shrug* You did not make an "observation." You issued an insulting and dismissive opinion of those who did not believe as you did. You said: "But folks who act like Chicken Little in regards to Christian fundamentalists are either sadly mistaken or pushing more than one agenda simultaneously." Now if you are going to mock me (and others), comparing our concerns to "Chicken Little", etc., you shouldn't be surprised or indignant when we respond accordingly. In other words, if you fling a snowball into a crowd you cannot expect that someone will not throw one back at you simply because you insist you weren't aiming at anyone in particular! As is your right! Only the radical fringe of most groups advocate violence. And yet somehow they tend the be the ones most likely to seize and misuse power. Therefore, I shall continue to consider radical Christians, like radical Jews and Muslims and radicals of every religious/non-religious ilk, to be an extreme danger to my country and to the world as a whole. You, however, may disagree and worry about treason with my blessing.

does the term "bandwagon" come to mind? ooh, lookey, somebody is raising hell about something that will make conservatives (er, religious conservatives) squirm! let's all get on board. taks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hmm, that's a bit dismissive and condescending, don't you think? I can only speak for myself, since I wouldn't presume the motivation of others, but I've been annoyed by the political insertion of the words "Under God" and the "In God We Trust" addition to our currency for more years than many forum goers here have been alive. Is it to annoy republicans? Well, no, because I AM a republican and have been one since I first registered to vote (which doesn't mean that the republican party hasn't changed enough to make me question my membership, but that's another issue.) Is it because I was raised as a dyed-in-the-wool atheist? Well, no, because I was raised a Southern Baptist, thunked and dunked. I am, however, firmly in the separation of church and state camp, and to me the deliberate insertion of religion dogma into the governmental arena is a step down a very slippery and very dangerous slope. It has nothing to do with bandwagons, as anyone who has seen my opinions on this topic over the years can confirm. It's very easy to say that children don't have to say the pledge, or don't have to participate in a school-led prayer, but realistically they will be outcasts if they don't conform. They will feel different, and be treated differently by their classmates, and even their teachers. I'm very much an advocate of keeping religion of all type out of our schools and out of our government. To me, that's a viable belief system, not a bandwagon.

This is a long thread, so perhaps I missed the post that claimed legislators who included "under God" in the pledge were trying to create a state religion. Certainly I never said nor implied such a thing. The legislators at the time were quite upfront about their reason for inserting the words "under God" in our pledge, (as well as putting "In God We Trust" on all our money). They did it to distinguish God-fearing Americans from those godless Soviet commies. Low on your list, perhaps. Not so low on mine. Besides, I imagine a decade or so back moderate Muslims were saying the same thing about their more radical, fundamentalist brethern. Singing a different tune now, I suspect. To me history has proven that radical, fundamentalist religion has resulted in more wars, more bloodshed, more human atrocity than anything else. So fundamentalism, along with the intolerance and hatred it breeds, is pretty high on my personal danger-list. Fortunately, you live in a country and in an era where most people can be intolerant of others without being slaughtered by the government for their beliefs. However, as the power of religious fundamentalism grows, overtaking the very structure of government itself, history has shown that such intolerance can and has been punished by death. People should not deceive themselves that a new inquisition cannot intrude upon our "modern" world. It can, and has done so around the globe in our lifetimes (Taliban, anyone?). Any religion brought to extreme is dangerous. In my opinion. To scoff at that is to ignore the very real lessons of history. Or perhaps they simply believe differently than you. It's rather intolerant of you to make such a presumption, in my opinion. I do not believe that my concern about religion fundamentalism is mistaken, because milennia of history proves my case. I do not have a hidden agenda, but thanks for insinuating that I do, thereby attempting to denigrate both my intelligence and my opinion. Of course you were aiming the post directly at me. Others as well, perhaps, but the response was definitely caused by my comments. It's rather disingenuous of you to claim otherwise, don't you think? Nevertheless, even moderators have a right to disagree! Clearly we are not likely to see eye-to-eye on this topic. Luckily, neither of us is likely to be arrested and excuted because of that. At least, not yet!

I agree with the court's ruling, not because I have a problem with the Pledge of Alligiance per se, but because I have a problem with the fact that a bunch of Christian fundamentalist legislators headed by the infamous McCarthy put the words "Under God" into a perfectly good pledge in the mid-1950's for purely religious reasons. I prefer my religion to be politic-free, and my politics to be religion-free, thanks.

Don't forget the AI "cheat" whereby the player's territory will run out of resources, frequently several resources at one time, but the computer territories, oddly enough, never seem to run out of resources. Until the player conquers them, that is. Then those valuable resources dry up like a old crone's skin cells! I also dispised the fact that after conquering territories, a city would without warning suddenly go back to the originating culture taking with it every last unit I happened to have in that city. However, I never once saw that happen with any city the computer civilizations took over. Doesn't mean it never happened for anyone, but it certainly didn't happen with my game, although every territorial conquest I made was guaranteed to have several cities "revert", costing me dozens, if not hundreds, of high-priced units in the bargain. That truly sucked. Look, I beat Civ 3 once... I don't recall what difficulty level... but the point is that the game was so frustrating and strategically uncontrollable that I never had the desire to play it again even though I had played Civ 2 and Alpha Centauri no less than 50 times each. Civ 3 was a real disappointment.

That's exactly what I did with my copy of CivIII... only I trashed it, because I have too much respect for charities. The AI cheat mode made that game an exercise in utter futility, IMHO. No strategy required, since nothing the player did mattered in the end. Since I absolutely adored Civ, Civ II and Alpha Centauri, to say I was dreadfully disappointed in CivIII is an understatement. I have no intention of buying Civ4 unless and until it's been out for enough months that players can assure me the rotten, cheating AI has been eliminated. Permanently.

I may use black humor to denigrate my own personal suffering. I won't use it to ridicule your suffering. That, sir or madam, is the difference. Unless, of course, you are posting from a refuge camp somewhere in the southeastern USA. In that case, ridicule away and God bless. Otherwise, your joke was rude and in poor taste, in my opinion. Added on Edit: Meshugger, I must apologize to you for jumping down your throat here. Yes, the joke was in poor taste... but my reaction was based more on the piling up of anger I felt at reading many of the insulting posts in this and other threads, and I lumped all of my indignation on you. It was unfair of me, and I'm sorry.

I'm so glad our misery can give y'all a giggle. Personally I felt your joke was offensive, and decidedly unfunny. But as long as you were happy with it, I suppose that's all that matters.

Walsingham, me too. Which is why Guild War suits me (as MMORPHS go), because I can use henchies as a team when a team is needed, therefore it doesn't matter how much time or how little I have available for a play session. Also, the game (at least the early parts of the game that I have seen so far) allow solo'ing to a much greater extent than the other MMORPH I have played. As for habit forming... well... it might be. I've not become "addicted" to it yet, though. I still play every few days for an hour or two when I feel like it. I'm enjoying the freedom, though, and I must confess it has really gone a long way toward eliminating what I consider to be the worst flaws of MMORPH'ing overall.

Oh, that is cold. The least Bio could have done was, like, include some instructions for their fancy-smancy damned spells so that non-D&D experts like myself could, you know, actually figure out how to use the blasted things without making a fool of themselves on public forums. OTOH, at least y'all know that I beat BG2/TOB nearly 2 dozen times without using the cheesy TimeStop spell even once. Ha! Beat THAT, fools. :D

WHAT??? *gasp!* ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH.... *runs away, screaming*

Ha, what's wrong with the Timestop spell is that every evil NPC in the game can use it against my poor party a dozen times a battle... yet I have yet to figure out how to use it even once! I'm serious. My mages mem the danged thing, then they cast it, then... then nothing. Spell wasted, bad guys carry on as if my mage had just spit water at them... and adding insult to injury, THEIR mage will then cast Timestop and promptly heap a dozen spells upon my instantly time-frozen party, all of which take effect simultaneously, thereby killing us all. I hate Timestop. Hate it, do you hear me??? I hope they kill it forever... FOREVER. *breathes into paper bag*

Indeed, I think it should have been Adults Only right out of the block instead of rated for Mature17+ (which means retail outlets must card buyers, and can be fined if they sell to anyone under the age of 17). Still, the ratings system says that general mayhem and utter viciousness for its own sake is okay for older teens, but sex is verboten except for those over the age of 21. Since Adults Only ratings sell MUCH less than any other rating, GTA developers slipped their game right up to the line of Mature17+. Then wanting their cake and eating it too, they included a bawdy sex mini-game, "inactivated" it for the retail release and waited for a cheat code to be made widely available to reactivate it. That way, they had the Adults Only game they wanted with the higher sales figures of a Mature17+ rating. They even had the audacity, once caught, to try and squirm out of it by implying that it was all the fault of unauthorized hackers... until the fact that it was GTA developers themselves who had created the scene in question was proven. The content WAS in the retail box, and GTA developers had put it there! Well, they flat deserve what they got, an immediate re-rating to Adults Only, and the subsequent pulling it off shelves from WalMart, Target and a host of other retail establishments which do not, by policy, carry Adult Only material. Shame on GTA's developers. Their cutesy ratings dodge was dishonest to say the least. I do not feel the least bit sorry for them. That kind of shenanigan is what gives fuel to the righteous video-game haters out there who are trying to ban our hobby altogether. Everyone who loves video games should be outraged at GTA's developers for dropping the entire industry's reputation another notch toward the old toilet in the eyes of mainstream society.

Arggghhh.... draakh_kimera, that has got to be the most gaudy and annoying signature ever. Can't you cut it down to a management size as a courtesy to those of us on dial-up?

Eh, not much in the pipeline that excites me. Dragon Age Oblivion Gothic 3 NWN 2... maybe

I like these forums. I like Fionavar. I've known the Big Green One for years, and have found him to be reasonable, consistant, polite, helpful and just plain nice. PM's are the best way to discuss one's specific concerns with a mod. I recommend it. Also, the "Report" function is your friend. Use it responsibly, but use it. Carry on.

I've been playing Guild Wars, although I'm not a fan of MMO's normally. Ten-year-old griefers sent me screaming away from EverQuest a few years back and I've never returned. Also, I'm on dial-up. The good news is that Guild Wars is dial-up friendly, and has unique "instanced" areas for the PC and party only, so the only time you have to deal with 10-year-old griefers is when you go to town... or when said 10-year-old ends up in your party. The loot drops are also assigned by name to party members, making it more difficult (but not impossible) for those loot-stealing adolescents we all dispise to ply their wicked craft! More good news is that computer generated henchies are supplied, so that solo-loving folks like myself can gather henchmen instead of real folks for those missions that require a full party. That said, the role-playing part of the game... which is massive... is just a training ground for the PvP and GvG arena battles, which is NOT my thing. Also, I hear the later role-playing mission/areas are so difficult that it really does revert back to the old "forced party interaction" thing, which annoys me. So it's definitely not without flaws. It's interesting, though, and without the monthly fee the cost is reasonable enough that I feel I've gotten my money's worth already just exploring the early part of the game. (There IS a story, by crackey!) Those who enjoy exploration liberally sprinkled by the ever-present monster hack-n-slash should find GW a fun diversion. [/end mini-review]

I'm playing Guild Wars, my first MMO since the ill-fated EQ1 (which I loved, but which took over my life!). I'm enjoying GW immensely so far. It has a very clever set up to avoid loot-and-kill stealing, and is extremely dial-up friendly so I can actually compete with all you broadband folks! I recommend it.

ROFL!!! It could be worse. I could be a USA president informing a cheering German populace that, "I am a jelly donut!" (Edit: Which is exactly what President John Fitzgerald Kennedy did in the late 1960's, while making a speech in Berlin, Germany!... for those who were unaware of this embarassing facet of USA history. )

Now, Eldar. You know I love ya! *hugs* We agree more than we disagree... and cowboys DO have their place. Just maybe not here...? Anyway, it's an interesting topic. I'd hate to see it turn into a flamefest and get closed, that's all. :D

Hmm. The scent of arrogant pomposity grows a bit thick in ye olde forum. Perhaps we could ratchet it down a bit before the green dragon seals off the area for fumigation!

Nobody is asking politicians to deny their faith. What many of us do expect, however... and what we believe the constitution requires, whether some of you agree or not... is that politicians do not codify their faith into law and shove it down the throat of the populace. I don't think that's too damned much to ask, frankly.

I haven't read this thread yet, so I may be misunderstanding the question. My favorite game world is the Gothic world. Gorgeous, seamless, lush and utterly immersive. Truly wonderful.

I believe that democracy is necessary to give people a tool to protect themselves from being oppressed and taken advantage of by their government, no matter what kind of government they have. That said, pure democracy is indeed the tyranny of the majority, where the rights of any non-majority group can be trampled with impugnity by a simple vote. I would not want ten of my neighbors voting to take away my home and my bank account to split the proceeds among themselves simply because "majority rules!" Therefore, I much prefer a constitutional republic, where the rights of all citizens are at least given the illusion of being protected. :D

Religious fundamentalism, whether Christian, Muslim, Jewish or other, has been used over the milennia to wage more war, more bloody slaughter of heathens, infidels and non-believers, than any other single source of human behavior, bar none. In my opinion, of course, since I do not pretend to be a global historian of any merit. Right now Christian fundamentalists are trying to turn America into a place where specific religious belief can be foisted upon the entire populace through law, and through the rhetoric of the pulpit which in some cases is almost as inflammatory as the hate-mongering crap spewed from Wahhabi madras schools. I think both situations are pretty damned dangerous. The perversion of religion to gain power, territory, murder enemies, enslave populations, is not new. But it's still going strong throughout this 21st century world, from Africa to Asia and even into parts of Europe. Religion and ethnicity has been at the root of every major conflict in my lifetime. And it's at the root of every major conflict going on as we speak. Although I was raised as a genuine thunked-and-dunked Southern Baptist, my disillusionment over the years between the pretense of religious love and charity versus the reality of religious hate-mongering and arrogance has pretty much soured me on all organized religion. To me religion has become the tool by which specific individuals attain the power, prestige, and position to control masses for purely personal gain. It's a shame, because the glorified concept of religious goodness shines on the best of humankind; but the reality has brought forth the worst. [/personal rant of little consequence] :D