~Di

I sure as hell would. And I'd start by scrupulously enforcing the laws already on the books requiring employers to verify the legal status of their workers, under penality of extraordinary fines, jail time or both. Laws which, I might add, are ignored as routinely as are the immigration laws themselves. <sarcasm> I wonder why. </sarcasm>

Oh Lordy. Forgive me, this is a "why I hate my country" rant on a real sore point! One of the reasons it's so difficult for Mexicans and Latin Americans to get legal work visas is because of the immense flood of illegals. Even Ceasar Chavez, a true hero of the Mexican migrant worker, was dead set against illegal immigration. Why? Because he knew that everything he helped put into place to elimination the exploitation of poor migrant workers... legal work visas, decent wages, fringe benefits... meant nothing if illegals came in and took those jobs by doing without the legality, the decent wage, and the fringe benefits. And that is what is happening all over, in every business from hotels, to landscaping, to restaurants, to manufacturing... you name it. Ah, but they pay their taxes, you say? Er, what taxes might those be? No income tax is withheld if one simply puts enough deductions on the withholding forms. The payroll taxes charged against social security numbers they have "borrowed" from USA citizens? ROFL. Those USA citizens have no end of grief when they find out that their SS numbers have been used illegally, and the IRS insists they made thousands more in income than they actually made... not to mention the misery they are subjected to when those social security numbers are used to get illegal welfare, or credit cards, or loans for which payments have defaulted. Look, we are a nation of immigrants. We are NOT a nation of illegal immigrants. Most of our ancestors came here with respect for this country and for its laws. That's how it should be. The flood of illegals in some areas of this country, however, have destroyed communities. Jobs that gave people a stable economic base, jobs in construction, agriculture, restaurants and the like, suddenly aren't available to locals. Don't EVEN try the "jobs Americans won't do" bull-crud. Americans were doing those jobs, until greedy employers discovered that illegals would do them for much less, and wouldn't complain if they occasionally got stiffed on their wages altogether. Bah. Now in thousands of towns across this country employers send pickups to corners where dayworkers gather, workers willing to use false documents and take lower wages. The greedy and corrupt exploit these illegal dayworkers, just as those dayworkers have exploited our country. Jobless citizens and legal immigrants move away, searching for work. Hospitals along the border have closed their doors because they cannot afford the flood of unpaid "emergencies" from across the border (mostly childbirth). So now these communities have no hospitals or clinics, and taxes soar to support the immense influx of additional children into local schools... and to pay for bilingual education. I've heard it all... our economy would collapse without illegals. Prices would go up without illegals. Yada-yada. All bull-pucky. The Mexican government literally ships its citizens here because the money they send back to Mexico is that country's second largest source of revenue. That means that Mexico doesn't have to bother fixing its own economy, because the citizens of the USA are now propping up the economies of two countries. Now we've got people protesting in the street, insulting our flag by waving it upside down and demanding... demanding! ... that illegals be made citizens! I wonder how Vicente Fox would like it if about ten million Americans marched into Mexico City, demanded free health care, food stamps, welfare, stole personal I.D. numbers from Mexican citizens for their own personal use, then demanded to be made citizens because, dammit, they had a right to have whatever they want! This whole topic chafts me raw, obviously, because I lived most of my life in an area where the flood of illegals has destroyed not only communities, but the lives of those who came here legally to become a part of our country, not merely to exploit it.

Oh come on. Y'all know that Haliburton is a bright and shiny ode to capitalism. Any attempt to tarnish their good name must surely be a one-sided, partisian hit piece by some commie-sympathizing weenie. Because after all this is the very first time anyone has ever accused our precious Haliburton of taking advantage of political connections, governmental price-gouging, or being handed plum contracts on a no-bid basis... except all those dozens of other similar allegations that have also been made over the past 5 years by various governmental agencies, investigative committees and GAO audits. Still I'm sure all those allegations were totally unfounded, planted by poo-poo head democrats just like Waxman. So I'm just going to plug up my ears and sing, "lalalalalal, I can't HEAR you" at the top of my voice until everyone stops saying bad things about Haliburton. Yes, I love Cheny that much. Got to admire a man who shoots first and calls a press conference later, and who's first name evokes such fear that internet forum filters replace it with ****. Now THAT is the manifestation of true power. Haliburton is merely a tool with which to weild it! :D

Ethanol is at least renewable. Oil isn't. When it's gone, it's gone. (Waits for the obligatory "there's enough oil in the planet for a hundred million years!" reply. :D )

Not flaming you at all! Just a good-natured scolding for your presumption about others! (I'm a mom. Good-natured scolding is what I do best!) The rest was merely my view of the topic, which was indeed quite similar to your view! BTW, if my employees had left a note like that, I'd have probably fired them all on the spot. It's one thing to speak candidly with one's boss about one's feelings; it's quite another to publicly humiliate said boss in such a rude fashion. If the boss does not fire them, he/she is just asking for further unacceptable behaviors in the future. Good boss or crappy boss, there is a line that subordinates simply cannot cross. And these folks crossed it! In my humble opinion.

Indeed, rotten bosses make the lives of their employees more miserable than they have to be. Still, the only thing worse than a poor-paying job at the bottom rung of the employment ladder is no job at all. Anyone who doesn't like their job is free to go get another one. Anyone who can't get another one should just suck it in and do what they are paid to do. Nobody starts at the top, bucko. BTW, you may not have meant it to sound arrogant, but presuming that somebody else hasn't experienced working for crappy wages in even crappier working conditions simply because that person isn't gnashing his teeth and bemoaning his fate really was fairly rude. It was probably inaccurate as well, since I dare say that most people who've survived into middle age have paid their dues at some time in their lives by working in very unpleasant conditions for a mere pittance of a wage. But they did so because, as pointed out, a lousy paycheck is better than no paycheck and, again as pointed out, nobody starts at the top. Also, nobody comes into this world entitled to a handout. Some folks are born into privilege; others aren't. Some are lazy bums who think everyone else should take care of them; others grit their teeth, work hard, and earn what they get. Some people work hard all their life, and barely eek out a living. Them's the breaks. Life isn't fair, unfortunately. Pissing and moaning one's lot in life may make us feel better... until we see a one-armed fruit picker with six half-starved children living in the back of a pickup truck. That's when we realize that maybe, just maybe earning minimum wage and putting up with a snotty boss or two really isn't the worst tragedy life could dish out!

Indeed. I'm guessing that mine are amongst the posts Elven6 is choosing to ignore. Oh, well. I tried to interject some on-topic discussion. Guess I'll move on now.

Okay, sorry for the misunderstanding. No, I'm not an idiot. You needn't be rude.

Are you talking to me? Waittaminute. You created this thread to "debate" and discuss. I have asked you to clarify or explain certain things that you have said, because I did not understand what you meant. Is your response to me that I should "read the previous posts", even though it's quite obvious that I have already done so? And I have no desire to peruse the "China Today" website, but thanks anyway.

What personal attacks? Stupid Canadian. Now, how about replying to my questions? If you have time, that is.

I don't really mean to pick on you, but I do have some questions and comments about some of your statements. Again, that's rather inaccurate. During the 1980's Afghan/Soviet war, Muslims from many nations flooded in to fight. The opposition to the Soviets were called the Mujahadeen. Al Qaeda didn't even exist, and bin Laden was just one of thousands of outside fighters in that country... albeit probably the richest one! America didn't know him from Adam at that point, and supplied weapons to all of the Mujahadeen, foreign and domestic, to assist them in repelling the Soviet invasion. Again, so did many other European countries. Bin Laden never had a problem with America until the Gulf War, when America allied with bin Laden's mortal enemies, the Saudi royal family, and placed American/Infidel boots on the ground in Saudi Arabia. That is when Al Qaeda as we now know it was formed. If that was supposed to be funny... it isn't. If it was supposed to be serious, then your credibility has taken a big hit. Absolutely accurate and true. Well, for one reason because the Soviets claimed that they intended to destroy us. Kruschev even beat his shoe at the UN to prove it! But primarily, the goal of communism was global domination, and the overthrow of all democratic governments, including our own. Surely you wouldn't expect us to take that with particular good grace, now would you? Aww, that's sweet. I went to New York City once, and saw people playing music and dancing in the subway stations. Therefore, I must logically conclude that all 290 million Americans are happy! Could you explain this, please? Not doubting you, it's just that I've never heard of this before and wondered if you could expand upon the situation, and perhaps offer a link or two that I could use to educate myself. Thanks.

Small correction here, for accuracy. America never put Saddam in power. He put himself in power by overthrowing his boss, whom he later had executed. Over a decade AFTER that, during Iraq's war with Iran, America did indeed give arms to Iraq (as did a whole bunch of European nations). America and Europe did that because Iran's new Ayatollah government was alarming, to say the least... and America in particular was pissed with Iran because it had invaded our embassy, kidnapped our diplomats and held them hostage for over a year. But America never had a thing to do with Saddam coming to power. Period.

? I don't understand, what "dreams" do you consider "undoable?" Actually, the "American Dream" was a phrase coined in the 1950's, IIRC, to describe the emerging middle class, who owned a home, a car, and had 2.5 children. Europeans seem to have given the term their own meaning, which I'll confess I don't totally understand. Anyway, America is about opportunity, not absolutes. Not everyone who works hard will succeed or reach their own goals. Life isn't like that. However, America... and frankly a good many other nations as well... offers a society that provides opportunities and choices to its citizens. People are able to make choices, select goals, and work toward those goals. For the most part, effort is rewarded. Those who work hard usually have more than those who do not. Communism, in its purest form, does not reward effort. The lazy bum who picks lint out of his navel will be given exactly the same lifestyle as the energetic, hard-working person beside him. Ownership of anything, from land to products to living quarters, belongs to the government. The government alone distributes these things so that in theory, everyone has exactly the same thing... no more, no less than anyone else. This supposedly removes envy and greed; but it also removes incentive. The lack of societal incentive is, in my opinion, one of the main reasons that pure communism is doomed to collapse in upon itself, and fail.

I'm very sorry for your loss. Take care.

Hmm. Granted it's been a while since I was in school, but three years of studying one foreign language (Spanish, French or German) was absolutely mandatory when I was in high school. That and Sesame Street English, of course. Required subjects may have changed over the years or from district to district, of course, but what did you mean by the above statement? When my children went to school, they most certainly were required to study grammar and rules of the language. (BTW, when trying to generalize insult to imply that the entire populace of a country is ignorant about language and grammar, it's usually best to proofread one's own language and grammar to avoid embarrassment. Also, spelling counts. )

Husby would NOT be thrilled if I commandeered the faamily tv set. So we're talking several hundred bucks for the XBox 360, plus several hundred bucks for an adequate tv to run it on, plus whatever a table that won't collapse under the weight of an adequate tv would cost. For that much, I could update my computer with a new video card AND a gig of RAM... On the bright side, it will give me time to read gamer reviews and find out what equipment has trouble running it. *brave smile* So it's all good.

I so want this game. Alas my video card is on the list of those "guaranteed NOT to run Oblivion", so it's pretty fruitless for me to buy it. At this point, upgrading my PC is not an option. I'm so sad.

Thank you, Sammael, for that illuminating glimpse into your own difficult experience. Your understanding and explanation of what these people (yes, of course there were more than just a few to blame for the horror that was visited upon that region) did, their motives, their greed and their corruption, has been sobering and for me, at least, extremely enlightening. I appreciate your sharing it with us. So many who should have been help accountable for their atrocities, yes on all sides, have been and still are being ignored. There will never, it seems, be true justice for this shattered region. @Brdavs: Do not fall into the trap of doing to others what you accuse them of doing... making presumption without fact, and generalizing not only an individual about whom you know nothing, but also an entire country based upon your own bias.

At least that farce of a so-called "trial" can finally be ended. Five freaking years, still no resolution, and the only thing it proved to the world was that Milosevic could control the Hague the same way he controlled the Balkans. International justice has become a joke. I don't know whether I'm just glad the butcher is finally dead, or disappointed that his death was so gentle compared to the horror he inflicted on so many. Too bad he didn't drop dead years ago, before he'd managed to turn the Hague tribunal into such an impotent laughing stock.

Alternate political parties aren't viable candidates (despite the fact that there are indeed a few Independents and Libertarians serving in congress) because of the danged money. Dems/Repubs spend the national debt on each election, which pretty much knocks everyone who hasn't got a few billion bucks tucked away out of the running. Until we stop allowing our elected government officials from the top down to purchase their positions, nothing is going to change. John McCain for president. *hoists sign*

Laozi... you're kidding, right? I don't know what your last presidential ballot looked like, but mine had over 20 candidates from 20 different political parties listed. It is far from difficult for any third party candidate to get on a ballot. Now getting on ALL ballots in every single state may be another matter. Still several do it every election, including the Green Party, the Independent party, the Libertarians. I do agree with your comments about the democratic party. Lately it seems to be less in favor of anything than it is simply against stuff that the republicans favor. I've always said a pox on both their houses. We do have several viable alternate parties here, but because of the financial resources needed to get elected in this capitalistic quagmire, only a few have managed to get elected. Campaign finance reform is the first step, in my opinion, to establishing viable third parties. I hope to live long enough to see that happen.

True, and national generalizations are usually inaccurate... that goes for generalizations about Americans AND French! However, the dozen people involved in Abu Ghraib have been or are in the process of being tried for their deeds. There were several attacks on British and American WW2 cemetaries in France, not just one such attack, and to the best of my knowledge no one has been held responsible for them. Be that as it may, there was a great deal of animosity from the average citizen-on-the-street in both America and in France, if the multitude of reports from various media were even partially accurate. From my personal experience, anger and mistrust still exists in the people I personally know here in my country, and it would appear to exist in the few French folks I know online (despite the fact that I personally like these particular individuals, it seems obvious to me that they do not like or trust my country... and I'll confess, I don't much like or trust theirs). As I've said, I suspect the next generation in both countries may look kindly upon each other, but I sincerely doubt this generation on either side of the pond will ever do so.

Indeed. Just as many Canadians are smugly narcissistic! Especially when it comes to criticizing others. (The above is merely to illustrate the folly of national generalizations, and is in no way a reflection on my Canadian friends. Except those who are indeed smugly narcisstic. )

For one thing, I was against the Iraq invasion as well. The war with Iraq was wrong on so many fronts I cannot begin to describe them all; but France's opposition had nothing to do with friendship, and everything to do with trying to maintain its own self-interest, which was a thriving little black market trade with Iraq in violation of UN sanctions. Also, I think when French citizens vandalize and piss on the graves of American soldiers who helped liberate their country in WW2, they can by no stretch of imagination be considered as "friends". I suspect it will take a generation or so before Americans and the French will view each other kindly again.

I'd say anyone, male or female, who publicly criticizes any aspect of Islam or Muslim extremism is putting themselves in some jeopardy. People... lots of people, but don't bother asking me for a list of them just to be argumentative... have died for doing just that. So I'd say the woman is showing considerable more courage than, say, folks on an internet message board who are trying to downplay what she has done. That said, I agree that the day-to-day courage of women who live under the oppressive arm of Sharia law and strive to educate themselves in the face of potential death or disfigurement are the true heroines. Unfortunately, the world doesn't much care about them. Out of sight, out of mind, I suppose.