Phinelete

Nothing happens. You can kill the Ogre and he drops his head and some blood. If you're role playing a sicko packrat, you will have a valid RP reason for collecting that ogre head and placing it in your pack (you're a sicko pack rat!). If not, well, good luck finding a justification for your Meta-gaming/ESP. And that's it. You can then go meet the farmer for the first time, listen to his plight, and what he wants you to do, Then in that same dialogue you can show him the ogre's head. If you're lucky, you get XP for that. Welcome to fetch-quests 101. But make no mistake about this: If you go to that wilderness map before talking to anyone in the village, EVERYTHING you do there is unrewarded. No XP for exploration. No XP for clearing that giant cult dungeon. No XP for using your Might skill to force open the dungeon's entrance. No XP for slaughtering all the beetles and spiders that "block your path" to the ogre cave. No XP for entering that cave. No XP for dealing with the enemy party up north (even if you do it peacefully, which is an option). No XP for successfully Athletic-ing the Dragon Egg down from the ledge. NADA. Is this supposed to be anyone's idea of proper RPG design? I totally agree, this is flat out terrible design which openly discourages the player from bothering with exploring an area, creating a very linear sense of progression. There's one, and only one "right", "correct" way to play the game - focus on the main quest (occasionally, a few optional ones) and ignore everything else, because you do not get rewarded for it, in fact, by forcing you to fight anything, game designers are blatantly wasting your time. Sure, don't give us XP for every monster slain, but at least give us some experience points for that group (emphasis on: entire group!) of super-tough enemies hiding in a cave or those packs(!) of beetles roaming the map. Killing a pack of foes should be considered an "objective" worth rewarding the player for, otherwise, every single combat encounter is utterly pointless and serves no other purpose but to artificially make the game last longer.

Fallout, Arcanum and Torment are absolute masterpieces which stood the test of time. Especially Arcanum, even though its combat system is deeply flawed (unnecessary real time mode only made it worse). Fallout 2 is unfortunately inferior to Fallout 1 because of one...no, two-three things: - STUPIDLY high amount of easter eggs. I mean, what in the name of flying f--k. The sheer amount of dumb characters (Brain the Rat in Gecko, the Wizard summoning Deathclaws, the list goes on) and ominpresent references ("this is captain Pickard", skynet) is unbearable, especially on subsequent playthroughs and completely ruins the immersion. The game feels like one big, lazily written satire more of than not. Fallout 1 was much more serious, coherent and subtle in every way. Fallout 2 went overboard with jokes. - shaman talking to PC in a dream. That is just... facepalm-worthy and feels like something pulled out from a different (fantasy) game - mandatory boss fight in the Enclave. I liked that in Fallout 1, I could get a "not true" ending and join the Master or convince him to commit suicide. Fallout 2 has only one ending. Also, something always bothered me about the conversation with the President. At first, he treats you like one of Enclave soldiers, then a few lines of dialogue later he addresses you as the villager from Arroyo. It feels random, as if that conversation wasn't finished.

Definitely the combat system, it was broken, unengaging and got only more boring and tedious as each IE game progressed. The encounter design was the only thing that saved Icewind Dale's or BG2's combat from being panned by critics and gamers alike. Ditch the outdated RTwP in favour of ToEE-like turn based combat.

Something this game should have - PROPER TURN BASED COMBAT instead of this boring, repetitive RTwP garbage.

Mstark, those screenshots are from Commandos 2, which came out in 2001.

Did some people in this thread really call the music in Arcanum "terrible"? I mean, REALLY? One of the best soundtracks ever created..."terrible"? Seriously guys, some of you are either trolling or on drugs. Or both. There's no other explanation.

It requires you, however, to activate the game before playing and having Steam running whenever you're playing. Which is what is meant with DRM. When Steam goes bankrupt or offline, you cannot install and play any game. Valve's said (repeatedly) that they'll release the games from the client if they go under. That's a lie/ internet myth. They never, EVER officially stated such a thing.

GOG >>>>>>> Steam. No contest. If you ask me, Steam is an outdated client, a relic of the past, in which screwing over paying customers was a norm. Feel free to continue using Steam of course, but I won't be supporting Gaben's walled DRM garden anymore now that there's a viable alternative. I will support pro-consumer solutions like GOG. Thank you Obsidian & GOG!

That's awesome, BUT: what about the boxed version? Am I to understand the disc will be Steam-infested?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with games being available on as many digital distribution sites/platforms as possible, quite the contrary, it's THE way to do business. Store exclusivity is beyond stupid. People should be given options - if they want a Steam/Gamersgate/Impulse/GMG copy, they should be able to buy it. If they want a GOG/ DRM free version, they should have such an option, too.

People always bring up Arcanum, but just because it didn't do the "TB/RTwP choice" idea justice doesn't mean the concept is flawed in the first place. Maybe it's not the best example, but check Fallout Tactics - excellent TB combat system and a servicable RT combat. It's doable. Heck, BG2's underlying mechanics were phase-based already, creating a TB ToEE-like option wouldn't be that difficult.

And that's why they advertised their project by something like this: "from the creators of Fallout 1&2, ToEE, Arcanum"? My point is, why deliberately hurt the combat system? ToEE came out and proved that RTwP is simply worse. That's a fact. Why settle for an inferior solution? Who thought that combat in PS:Torment was good? NONE. They chose RTwP because it's more marketable and they're obviously after the Bioware crowd (need proof? Look at the stretch goals!), it's as easy as that. But we're derailing the thread.

Melee combat is much more satisfying - weapon reach, grapple, coup de grace, attacks of opportunity, etc. etc. And that's only a start. He might think BG2 was better, because BG2 had better enounter design - each fight was different because of the variety of enemies thrown at you. ToEE wasn't as good in that regard, but its combat system was SO superior it's not even a contest. The combat system in BG2 was restrictive, offered zero depth and was boring as hell.

The pro-DRM folks (and even Obsidian, which is simply SAD) seem to forget about one tiny detail... This project has launched on KICKSTARTER. It is being funded by PEOPLE. Gamers and GAMERS ALONE. There are no publishers involved. No shareholders to please. Punishing gamers with DRM for their enthusiasm and willingness to fund this game would be nothing short of a slap in the face. That would be insulting. Those who pledge should totally receive DRM free copies. Especially those who are bound to receive boxed copies. The fact we have to BEG for that priviledge means Obsidian do not understand the idea behind Kickstarter. That means they have the same mentality as publishers (why do you think they chose RTwP over Turn Based combat, as well? For the exact same reasons any publisher would choose it).

*Disengages lurk mode* Agreed. The day I found Troika's The Temple of Elemental Evil with its real-time exploration and turn based combat was the day I realised that I wished all the old Infinity engine games I

Why anyone would choose a horrible RTwP over TB (especially when ToEE showed how superior it is in party based, top down cRPGs) is beyond me. If that's not deliberately gimping the game's mechanics, I don't know what is.

Same here, I simply refuse to go for the $65 tier and beyond if the boxed version is bound to require a Steam account.

That's pure nonsense. I've lost count of how many times that POS refused to even launch (preventing my from playing), was stuck updating my games for eternity (preventing me from playing) or refused to launch in offline mode after my internet connection had a hiccup (again, preventing me from playing). I've recently switched exclusively to GOG and Gamersgate when it comes to digital distribution. I might occassionally pick up a Steamworks-infested game, but I want to stay as far away from Gaben's walled garden as possible. GOG version is a must!

I've opted for the $65 tier pledge - I'm going to lower it if the boxed version ends up being tied to Steam. DRM free boxed copy, please!

Just who the hell are you, mate? A publisher incarnate? They're using Kickstarter to fund the development. People use that service to raise funds for stuff that wouldn't ever get funded or sell like Call of Duty. What, should they rip off Dragon Age's "sex scenes" to make the game more marketable, too? Obsidian, please - RTwP is a poor man's combat system. TURN BASED combat shined in Temple of Elemental Evil, I couldn't go back to Infinity Engine releases after playing ToEE - RTwP was so chaotic and boring. Why are you choosing an inherently inferior, broken by design solution? Please consider creating a proper TB combat system!

Thank you very much for asking and taking the time to read through all the responses, I appreciate that kind of communication-based relationship between a developer and cRPG fans. Here's hoping something will actually come out of this, preferably that isometric party-based turn based cRPG so many people asked for. Good luck!

What I'd love to play is something that goes back to Black Isle's/Troika's genius philosophy of RPG design. Thoughts: - isometric, - preferably a party-based dungeon crawler in the vein of Temple of Elemental Evil - obligatory turn-based combat !!! (excellent examples of amazing TB combat systems: ToEE, Jagged Alliance 2, Silent Storm if you're looking for inspirations) - deep mechanics, allowing for great replayability - plenty of choices and consequences - dialogues with skill checks - multiple ways to solve quests, factions to join - inspired, interesting setting (Fallout's 1950s vision of the future, Arcanum's Steampunk/Magic mix, ToEE's Greyhawk) - beautiful art direction and artwork (Arcanum, ToEE) It'd be wonderful if you also looked at these games and drew inspiration from them: - Darklands (choices&conseqences masterpiece), - Realms of Arkania 2 Star Trail (items which matter and influence how you interact with the game world, excellent world map travel system) - Wizardry 8, which achieved incredible depth because of its balanced classes and races, so balanced, every combination was viable and interesting Thank you very much for asking everyone, MCA!