Slowtrain

I'm totally on board with not having lockpicking as a skill, and if gameplay mechanics require lockpicking of all characters, then having a "skill" for it is pretty bad game design. That being said, ideally, in a crpg loot acquisition and infiltration through lockpicking is a route that is only really accessible, especially at higher levels, to stealth type characters. For a combat character, they don't need to be able to pick locks since they can loot the piles of dead enemies they leave behind, nor do they have to worry about sneaking through the back door. Combat characters just go right through the front door with the weapon of their choice. And a diplomatic character likewise has their means of proceeding through the game. So yes, loot access is a powerful element of a crpg, but all skills, ideally, generate their own ways of acquiring loot. The problem with using FO3 as an example is that, while it IS a skill-based crpg, skills are so easy to raise that disntinctions between different character builds disappear pretty rapidly as the character levels. The early game of FO3 plays like a skill-based crpg; while the mid and later gameplay is more like a Far Cry-esque shooter.

And this is why I mentioned Dungeon Lords earlier, as it was based on both player skill and in-game skill. Unskilled lockpickers get a mini-game that's impossible (unless it is the easiest lock type), no matter the player skill. Skilled lockpickers get a mini-game that's easy (unless it is the most difficult lock type), no matter the player skill. Everyone in-between will struggle or breeze through, depending on lock type and player skill. Crude locks are possible for unskilled players and a breeze for skilled players. Complex locks are impossible for unskilled players and possible for skilled players. It still is the best lockpick solution I've seen in any game. It only had one flaw: when you were a super-skilled lockpicker (in-game skill), it would take longer to open a crude lock than it would for an unskilled lockpicker (due to the way the mini-game was set up), even though it was impossible to fail the game. They should have added an automatic lockpick function for unfailable locks/lockpicking skill combinations. That sounds like a good system, and a nice way to please bth people who like minigames and people who like character skills.

I generally agree. I would make the additional point though that publishers do appear to like their games to fit into "genre" categories and seem to go out of their way to label them as such. Ease of marketing and all that. SO while gamers do argue such trivialities, it's kind of fed to them by publishers.

Minigames are fine, EXCEPT, in a rpg in which there is a lockpicking skill. If there is a skill, then players who invest in a skill should get an advantage in the area of that skill over other players who do not invest in said skill. In a game like Bioshock or Thief, where there are no character skills and all characters are functionally the same, mingames that rely mostly on player skill are perfect.

I got the mod installed and tried to run it, but it needs the Oblivion disc, so I have to hunt that out. From where ever. Also, it looks like my firewall is blocking the updater. Not a big deal but I don't know if I am going to bother mucking about with my firewall settings just to update to whatever is current. I'll just run with whatever version I've got. FOr starters, anyway.

All that tunnel fighting has addled your brain.

I've heard others say the same, and I can see why, since the DX method eliminates both chance and personal (player) skill. But to me it was a perfect solution since it allows any player to pick any lock, if they have enough resources, but those with higher skills will spend fewer resources per lock and be able to pick more locks total, allowing them to use that approach to problem solving more often. It rewards character skill while not eliminating player choice. The best of all possible worlds.

*waits for Purk to post a link to the previous 9.732 variants of this thread topic.*

Not a big fan of any gameplay mechanic that leads to "reload until you get it right" I felt the way Deus Ex handled multitools and lockpicks was great.

And there was much rejoicing.

heh. hell, no! The repititous and uninspired enemies were a problem in both Fallout 1 and 2 as well. Big difference though is that Fallout 3 is much more combat-centric than ithe others, consequently the lack of interesting enemies is both more noticeable and more unavoidable. Yep. I'm just hoping that Obs' take on Fallout 3 has more going for it than just combat. With more to do that is not about killing things, the repitious nature of the combat would be less of a problem. SImply because it would be less of the gameplay.

Well, hopefully, there would be a middle ground between absurd fantasy monsters and mutated wasteland critters that would keep the encounters interesting. Hordes of mole rats and dogs and 17 flavors of feral ghoul gets old quick.

I think one of FO3's problems was a lack of a good variety of interesting enemies. Which was, oddly enough, one of Oblivion's stronger points.

I think the approach was much more successful in FO3 than it was in Oblivion. Wandering in Oblivion was absurdly dull.

OK. I see I am just as behind the times as ever. Reassuring. Now if you'll excuse me I have to take my Model T in for a tune up.

They changed a while ago, mang. Yeah, I just don't dl stuff very often so uber larger files are still a novelty.

I still have an Oblivion installation on my pc and the mod install seems easy enough so I'll give it a try. I'm d'ling now, but probably won't have time to look at it until the weekend or maybe Friday. edit. I remember when a couple MB was a large download. lol. 1.6 GB. How times have changed.

Bioshock 2 has a dlc that I never even heard of? Citizen Kane? Really? Bioshock 2 is Citizen Kane? That's just...odd.

lol. awesome. I enjoy the LPs, but really could never play an IE game again.

Yep, I was referring to post MW-Bethesda though.

Argh, The Ice Palace. Eyes are bleeding. I had a big problem with Call Lightning in the goblin levels. Spell would always end of hitting my own party members often as not. I eventually came to the conclusion that if there still unused strikes left when the last enemy in an area died, the strikes would still continue until they were used up. Only they would target party members instead. Don't know if that's accurate, but that was the way it seemed. So I always had to hustle the party out of an area after using Call Lightning. Made it kind of a pita, tbch. Anyway, Tig, you have my immense respect and admiration for managing to get through an entire LP + expansion thread and then well into another. These things are a huge amount of work. Rest assured I am reading. And enjoying. I'm secretly hooping you'll do a BG1/2 run, but realistically you'll probably be LP'ed out by the end of this thread. And I don't blame you in the least.

Yep, no argument there. Obsidian's strength is writing, Bethie's is, um, well, it's not writing, tfs.

*shrug* Anything elvis has been done to death, but yeah, if they can do it well the content might have legs. Game developers trying desperately to be funny is a pretty awkward and uncomfortable though. If they were really funny they would be either stand-up comedians or game show hosts.

That's a good question, and one I can't really answer. It was a long time ago. But iirc either that fight or the start of the next level was difficult enough for me that it felt like a chore rather than fun. But that's just a vague recollection. Interestingly, though I am enjoying the LPs of IE games (Somebody should do a BG1/2 run as well, or even PS:T), I was never a big fan of any of them, with the lone exception of IWD1. Not that they were bad or anything, but the combat always felt a bit tedious. I remember the Underdark in BG2 almost broke me; it just felt like it went on and on. ugh. But its cool to watch others play through it and just give the good bits!

The Ice Palace should be interesting to watch. So let's move to page 4.