roshan

Yes, together with all the other variations of black music. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> :ph34r: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's disturbing.. Being this is the 21st century.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is nothing disturbing about stating the facts. Almost all of hip hop, rnb and rap are produced by people of african origin, and a lot of african people like listening to this sort of music. And since they invented these styles of music., there is nothing wrong with giving them credit for it. If you deny that it is black music, you are actually being racist because you are denying credit for these music styles to their rightful inventors and are instead attempting to attribute their origin to white people. Just because a lot of white people are now listening to black music doesnt mean it belongs to you.

We definitely have a lot to be greatful to them for, despite the **** they produce nowadays.

I love metal, specially nu metal and industrial metal. Nu metal is basically bands like slipknot, system of a down, shadows fall, mudvayne, korn etc. I dont like classic metal as it tends to be extremely boring. I also listen to some melodic death metal bands. I like Brujeria a lot, its a mexican death/thrash metal band(at least something good has come out of latin america, unlike those ketchup girls), and also arch enemy. Industrial metal combines metal with electronics and industrial sounds, and it is my primary music genre. All my favourite industrial metal bands are from europe, and a lot of them sing in german. My favourite german bands are KMFDM, rammstein, oomph, megaherz and eisbrecher. I also like Turmion katilot, its a finnish band(and they sing in finnish as well), they are amazing. Most american music is garbage. European music is a lot better and is much more innovative. Yes, together with all the other variations of black music.

Yeah, ministry is industrial, and so is static x.

OK, maybe it doesnt belong in the list. But its still crap, together with drum and bass, pop, country music, alternative, punk and all that.

True, but this topic is about industrial metal, which is a separate genre.

Love the graphics. But in the end it doesnt matter. What I want is decent dialogue where I can roleplay my character and make choices, not this goddamned disgusting mother ****ing cinematic bull****.

Well NIN is nowhere close to metal.

Rap is crap. So is hip hop, rnb, ska, rap metal and the rest of that ****.

Both genres are boring. Thankfully, industrial metal is more than the sum of its parts.

Have you seen the new Mann Gegen Mann music video? It

Yeah, I listen to a bit of Fear Factory. But they arent really that industrial, just borderline. I think fear factory is more of a nu metal band(another genre that i like) Industrial Metal basically refers to metal with electronics combined. My favourite band is Rammstein.

Does anyone here listen to industrial metal? What bands do you listen to?

What a load of ****.

Try turning off ambient sound... I believe that worked for me.

Not sure what that has to do with what I said. I was talking about specifically increasing the length of the game by 15 hours merely by adding "RP" content...which you still haven't defined. I'm not ignoring anything...you're just misreading what you said. I know that all they need is more designer hours. You make it sound like hiring designers and artists is a cheap thing to do though. All in all, I find your entire post spoken from an understandably naive perspective. Content, in all of its forms, costs money. The cost of creating content today, in all of it's forms, has been increasing (with the cost of an individual sale being relatively static). I was never talking about creating new graphics and whatnot. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> First of all, the definition of roleplaying content is rather obvious and does not need to be defined. If you do not have at least a basic idea of this term means then there is no point in discussing things further. You did bring up cost per hour of gameplay. All I am saying is that the cost per hour of gameplay will not increase in a linear fashion and thus the increase in cost will not be significant. To create the first 15 hours of gameplay, you need to license technology, buy the settings license, program the engine and toolset etc. To create an additional 15 hours, you do not need to pay for those things anymore. All you need are the designers and to a lesser extent artists. Thus the benefit to the games length justifies the increase in costs. So why arent resources being allocated to this? The reason is simple, its not a priority because the market being catered to is not interested in longer games with more roleplaying.

I'm not sure if you read my reply to this, but I doubt that an extra 15 hours of complex, intricate, roleplaying content (please define this term for me too) would take antyhing less than months of additional programming time. Regardless of the state of the engine. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What the hell does writing dialogue have to do with programming??? Especially when it is done through a toolset?

The good content that you are demanding takes tons of time. I would suspect that adding an additional 15 hours of well thought out "roleplaying content" (whatever the hell that entails) would seriously add months to the game development time, if not more. I am quite confident you weren't thinking about 15 hours of crap gameplay, which could be done relatively quickly. The Engine and rules being programmed already won't affect things as much as you may like, because the game is designed (i.e. the story and all that stuff) concurrently with the engine. All it means is that the graphics programmers can either add more stuff, or have nothing to do on this project and move on. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes but the amount of graphics needed will not increase in a linear fashion. Lets say an area needs 15 different barrels to make it look good. When they create a new area, they can use 5 of the old barrels and add in another 5 new ones and make something that looks different enough, they dont need to create 15 whole new barrels. You are also ignoring many things. The trees are randomly generated using technology from outside, the toolset used to make new areas is already created, the engine is already programmed, the multiplayer already worked out. Thus designing new areas will not increase all these costs so the costs will not increase linearly. All they need is more designers and some more artists. More content isnt being created because it costs more, content isnt being created because it simply isnt a priority.

The main story of NWN was criticised, rightly I think, for being too long. Bioware faced the same issue that's being discussed here - you design a game with 20 levels so you want to showcase them, but it doesn't feel right to be levelling up every half and hour. So they made a very long, rather dull campaign. I doubt it would take much for Obsidian to add another 15 hours to NWN2, but would they be good hours? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> NWN had a campaign focused on barrel smashing and extremely slow combat that was repetitive and took hours to finish. I am talking about extra hours of roleplaying content thus bringing up nwn is irrelevant.

Is that really the be-all and end-all in terms of what a good game is for you? Seriously, it's silly to fret about it "only" being 30-40 hours before actually playing it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Read my reply to Arkan. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It included something about referencing PS:T and FO, right? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No.

Shooting for 30 hours? What the hell kind of campaign is that? I estimate that for hardcore players this number will be much less, as it always is. I estimate that I will be able to finish the game with all the side quests in about 15 hours. (my formula is almost always the minimum hours according to the developer divided by two) What the **** is going on with games nowadays? Why arent game developers focusing on creating large worlds with a lot of interesting sidequests and characters that gamers can immerse themselves in instead of these short displays of advanced graphics? Why the hell do they all cater to the ****ing attention disorder crowd? That even the corpse of those partially responsible for fallout and torment is making a 15 hour dungeon romp is disturbing indeed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's probably because the games themselves take much more $$$ per hour of gameplay than they ever used to. If you don't like it, don't play. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> How much more would it cost to add in another 15 hours or so? A lot of the game is tile based, the foliage is randomly generated, the engine and rules are already programmed. All that needs to be done is for more roleplaying content to be created, which shouldnt be a problem unless the designers are specifically catering to the attention disorder crowd OR they do not have the talent or ability to create good content.

Is that really the be-all and end-all in terms of what a good game is for you? Seriously, it's silly to fret about it "only" being 30-40 hours before actually playing it. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Read my reply to Arkan.

In none of those thirty hours does it include role playing? Boo urns Obsidian. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Arkan, roleplaying takes TIME. Youve got to think, roleplay and make decisions. I dont see how you can have much meaningful roleplaying in a short game. A short game is an easy graphics packed dungeon romp, not an intricate roleplaying experience.

Well games I like are so few and far between that when they come out I am way too hungry and devour them right away.

You are assuming that the MAXIMUM estimate of the developers is the correct one. However normally even the minimum estimate is normally an overexaggeration. This is from my experience, at least.