JadedWolf

Went to a "jazz festival" in Amersfoort with my brother, and enjoyed some La Chouffe's, a "sneeuwwitje" (beer with 7-up) on advice of my brother (didn't do much for me) and a weizenbier while listening to number of live bands playing anything from gypsy music to didgeridoo and very little actual jazz. The sun was shining, music was playing and we sitting at a table outside having a few beers and having fun. To anyone ever coming this way: don't spend so much time with the tourist zombies in Amsterdam. Lots of places outside of Amsterdam have beautiful city centres, like Amersfoort, which are a lot cleaner and less crowded. This message was brought to you by the Dutch tourist board.

I guess by now this is old hat, but I had a good laugh when I saw this: A prominent Russian blogger, Rustem Adagamov, tweeted a picture of priests wearing full ceremonial robes with the message: “The ROC categorically opposes bearded men in dresses!”

That is how it is in the majority of Europe as far as i know. I'm from Europe, and i don't know many countries here that take legal action against someone because he is a bigot. Until we vote Bruce for EU president of cource. Except we don't get to vote on presidents, they're forced upon us. Luckily they're really not of any consequence.

Really? You should. I don't know about how old Bruce is, but it could very well be he's young enough not to have had any part in Apartheid, so if that's so I wouldn't hold him responsible for something he has had nothing to do with. Just like I wouldn't hold young Germans responsible for what happened during the second world war.

I actually like Bruce. From what I can see from his posts I think he has his heart in the right place. That's exactly why I am so puzzled that he seems to have an outlook that I find very difficult to understand.

Well, speaking for myself as a man, when I am in a game (or on a forum) and I see some guy making a stupid comment to a woman I put this jerk on my ignore list. I don't try to start a discussion with him on why I think he should change his ways because if I did he would probably spam me with expletives. I also really don't see how I should be held responsible for jerks just because - and excuse me for putting it crudely- I happen to have a sausage between my legs and they do too. Not all guys do, so that's not a terribly sound argument. That said, why not? A mild inconvenience (oh no, you have to ignore him when you would do that anyway?) in exchange for making it clear to that individual that his behaviour is not condoned by fellow men? (I think perhaps you underestimate the cognitive effect that social shame can often have, particularly as regards that particular sort of male ego.) In real life, mayhaps. On the internet? Nope - they can be totally anonymous and piss people off, and they get off on that. And the more people show that they dislike it, they more they get off on it. So that's why in the end ignoring them hurts them more.

Well, speaking for myself as a man, when I am in a game (or on a forum) and I see some guy making a stupid comment to a woman I put this jerk on my ignore list. I don't try to start a discussion with him on why I think he should change his ways because if I did he would probably spam me with expletives. I also really don't see how I should be held responsible for jerks just because - and excuse me for putting it crudely- I happen to have a sausage between my legs and they do too.

You agree with SusurrusParadox saying to Nonek, who in my mind has not shown any sexist behaviour here at all: "You need to change your behaviour, and that of fellow men, so that people don't feel the need to have a separate safe space."? What is implied here is that Nonek is responsible for the jerkish behaviour of other men, even though he has done nothing of the sort. And he should change that, presumably by being very ashamed of himself for being male and agreeing with whatever SusurrusParadox thinks is the best solution. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to this, and neither should you. I don't think Nonek is a sexist at all, in fact he has only been polite to the various ladies on these forums when I've read his comments. Paradox doesn't know Nonek so his comment to me was more of a general statement around how to address the issue. But Paradox is also an outsider so I can understand how if he didn't know Nonek he would have thought Nonek was being dismissive, hence his seemingly acerbic statement. I don't think we should look to crucifying Paradox, if you leave out the whole cavemen comments he makes some good points? Which is exactly why I responded as I did, giving him the advice not to alienate those who might otherwise be his allies, which resulted in one of your comrades poking fun at me with a hilarious meme.

You agree with SusurrusParadox saying to Nonek, who in my mind has not shown any sexist behaviour here at all: "You need to change your behaviour, and that of fellow men, so that people don't feel the need to have a separate safe space."? What is implied here is that Nonek is responsible for the jerkish behaviour of other men, even though he has done nothing of the sort. And he should change that, presumably by being very ashamed of himself for being male and agreeing with whatever SusurrusParadox thinks is the best solution. Sorry, but I don't subscribe to this, and neither should you.

So, with this kind of tone, do you really believe that you're going to achieve anything? Because quite honestly, I think you'll achieve exactly the opposite. By generalizing and finger pointing, you turn off rational people who might otherwise actually listen to what you have to say. Just a word of advice. No you won't get through to someone like Bester by being nice. Either he thinks its funny to troll and be utterly dismissive of serious issues of social justice or he is being serious. Either way I don't care what he thinks. And SusurrusParadox is right, its exactly attitudes like Besters that lady gamers want there own space and frankly can you blame them He was talking to Nonek, he wasn't talking to Bester. What I object to is the implication that every single man is responsible for all the misdeeds done by some men who are jerks. By the way, these same jerks who annoy women in games are probably jerks to pretty much everyone. While I don't object to separate spaces for women who want them, I think the real problem is taking care of this jerkish behaviour in general. For me the problem is lack of moderation and lack of punishment of jerkish behavior. So rather than targeting all men just because of the fact that some men are jerks why not try to get game makers to enforce moderation to get rid of jerkish behaviour. To be honest no one has ever said all men are sexist jerks, this is what people like Volo say as a deflection mechanism instead of having to acknowledge there is a problem that needs to be discussed and addressed. Its a Strawman argument. Most men treat women very well and respect them but we do have a real problem with sexism and misogyny from some quarters "You need to change your behaviour, and that of fellow men, so that people don't feel the need to have a separate safe space."

So, with this kind of tone, do you really believe that you're going to achieve anything? Because quite honestly, I think you'll achieve exactly the opposite. By generalizing and finger pointing, you turn off rational people who might otherwise actually listen to what you have to say. Just a word of advice. No you won't get through to someone like Bester by being nice. Either he thinks its funny to troll and be utterly dismissive of serious issues of social justice or he is being serious. Either way I don't care what he thinks. And SusurrusParadox is right, its exactly attitudes like Besters that lady gamers want there own space and frankly can you blame them He was talking to Nonek, he wasn't talking to Bester. What I object to is the implication that every single man is responsible for all the misdeeds done by some men who are jerks. By the way, these same jerks who annoy women in games are probably jerks to pretty much everyone. While I don't object to separate spaces for women who want them, I think the real problem is taking care of this jerkish behaviour in general. For me the problem is lack of moderation and lack of punishment of jerkish behavior. So rather than targeting all men just because of the fact that some men are jerks why not try to get game makers to enforce moderation to get rid of jerkish behaviour.

So, with this kind of tone, do you really believe that you're going to achieve anything? Because quite honestly, I think you'll achieve exactly the opposite. By generalizing and finger pointing, you turn off rational people who might otherwise actually listen to what you have to say. Just a word of advice.

You have my sympathy. It's not exactly high class football, is it?

But I think Hurlshot's point in the overall context of what Christians believe is also valid. For example if you google "Christians who believe the earth was created in 6 days" you will find links and websites of what I would consider are more fundamentalist views on this topic. But if you go to his church and ask the people who attend the church " do you think the earth is only 6000 years old and man lived alongside dinosaurs" I can guarantee you they will say no we don't believe that. But they still have a spiritual believe in the importance and relevance of Christianity, they just don't take everything in the bible literally. Most of the Christians I know also have this perspective For the record I am an agnostic but I also agree with what Hurlshot is saying Well, it depends what Christians you ask. What made me change my mind was reading about Young Earth Creationism and its popularity in the U.S. I'll admit that I didn't know much about that subject, since you don't come across it much where I live. Here such ideas certainly exist at the fringe, at the sort of communities where parents refuse to inoculate their children because everything is the will of God. Edit: for the record, I'm an atheist, if that has any bearing on anything.

Edit: actually Azdeus, I concede your point. After doing some research, there do seem to be more Christians who actually literally believe in that earth was created in six days than I thought. Shocking.

Technically though, there are still Christians out there who do take the "God created the earth in six days and rested the 7th" literally. They exist on the fringe, certainly, in the direction of the sort of Christianity where people hide their television because they don't want the neighbours to know they have one. But they still do exist.

The fact such a website even exists makes my brain want to crawl out of my ears and hide in some dark corner. Unless it's a parody. But it isn't a parody, is it? Actually, it is. (And does a damn fine job at it, IMHO.) Eh, well. I didn't get it. I am guessing I'm not their target audience. -Shrug- But good to know that at least it's not serious.

The fact such a website even exists makes my brain want to crawl out of my ears and hide in some dark corner. Unless it's a parody. But it isn't a parody, is it?

To follow up on that, let's make it mandatory for couples to have to go to a special office where they are put through a thorough verbal exam before they are allowed to even think of having children. The first question should be what they plan to do with the child when they inevitably split up. Another question could be: "You are in a supermarket, your child is crying for that candy they had their eye on, what do you do?" The answer to that question in particular should decide whether they would be allowed to have children or not. (In case you're wondering, I am only half joking).