BruceVC

You made a very complicated question quite simple and said it in a way that shouldn't offend or confuse anyone but is very true, nice one

So you take the parts where I say favorable things to your position and summarily ignore the actual criticism I mixed in, in hopes that you'd be more receptive to it if I put it nicely? No wonder you're still going at this. There's no way to get through that wall of denial, is there? Lurky you know I like you and I should have also added to my post that I apologize for jumping to some unfair conclusions around what you said But you must be missing something with my point, I know that Romance in RPG works and is becoming more and more mainstream in the games I play. I know I'm right, you should be trying to blow through that wall of denial that the the anti-romance army has built. That's your enemy , there is no denial on our side. We merely relay the facts on ways to enhance any RPG experience in a game.

I never said that all people in the BSN are like that. Of course there are many sane individuals in there who are not comparable to the Tali Sweat poster, otherwise the forums themselves would have imploded long ago (though I'd like to mention that the Mass Effect romance subforum got so out of hand that it did get close to imploding, and mods closed it down for that reason, so food for thought). The point is that some people like that can be found there, in opposition to the majority of the Internet who has no such individuals posting that kind of content so openly. The fact that the BSN can be grounds for that kind of content, the fact that it has an ambient where that kind of thing is merely "an extreme example" and not a complete deviation of the standard shunned by the rest of the community is what makes it noteworthy, and that is why it's mentioned so many times. I won't deny that there are people who do, indeed, use the infamous Tali Sweat post with the purpose you stated. Many of them have done so in these forums in the past. But that is not the purpose I intended, and I think I made that clear in my post: I brought up that example mainly because of the content of that post, not because of what it represented. I mentioned what it represented merely to show why it was rather famous and people had brought it up. You're right to say that some of its fame is undeserved, but you can't deny that there is a kernel of truth in it, either. Incidentally, I don't condone the pointing and mocking that some people have done of the people who had their hopes of romance dashed, either. I do believe that some promancers have been very blind to the reality, keeping unrealistic expectations and ignoring all the pointers indicating that what you wanted was never going to happen, but some of the comments thrown at you could be considered to be kind of cruel (or at least unsporting), considering that you're probably still feeling hurt at the news. I'd give them a spanking for not being nice, but alas, I'm not their mother That's a good post and most of it I agree with

That's an excellent and erudite post. Very well done

Then behold, because it can be found here. Enjoy your read. You may have noticed that the conclusion of that analysis was to say that Tali's sweat was pleasant and aphrodisiac and just plain better than that of humans. Basically, the post used SCIENCE™ to prove Why Tali Is A Better Waifu Than The Rest, in a context of fans talking and gushing about her character, which is why that post has become infamous and an example of lonely Bioware fans that have crossed the line into creepy obsessiveness. And now you come here and try to use SCIENCE™ to put having romances as a good thing, which is why the comparisons started coming up. Look, I can understand your desire to let it out and write about your feelings about this topic, because as time has shown people have a lot of strong and very different feelings about it. But you have to be mindful about what you're saying and where. You say that people over-reacted to your analysis and took it the wrong way. I say that what happened is because of your analysis itself, as it is faulty and misplaced. It's faulty because it's incomplete and biased, as Hiro Protagonist II pointed out, and i'ts misplaced because you put it in a forum where people just don't want to talk about this topic anymore. That is why you got that reaction. Hopefully it's clearer now. That link is nothing but anti-romance propaganda. Its typically used by people to raise how depraved BSN is, but it misrepresents the facts. Firstly there are hundreds of posts a day on BSN that are nothing as extreme as that and secondly there are many people on BSN who wouldn't make a post like that but they are supporters of Romance. So you can't use a post like that as a reason that Romance won't work in any RPG, its an unfair comparison to use an extreme view as if that's normal for your average promancer

Its an absolutely stunning day in Jhb today so some friends and I took a drive outside JHB to a really good restaurant called African Swiss, its owned by an Austrian expatriate and offers very authentic Swiss, Austrian and German good. I had a delicious Cheese Fondue

I joke all the time, but I don't see that as Trolling. I don't think satire or humour is Trolling as those things are generally not done with the only purpose to upset someone? In fact they are normally done for the opposite reason

I don't see Trolling as childish based on the articles definition. Troll is an unacceptable behaviour that needs to be condemned and attempted to be stopped. I see Trolling as form of anti-social behaviour so I can't see how we can just shrug our shoulders and say " oh well they are just emotionally immature"

I don't really have any difficulties saying that I do not go online with the purpose of trolling. What do you mean by trolling, though, since I wouldn't be surprised if we have different definitions. Does a sarcastic, snarky remark qualify? Or does it have to be actively posting in a particular way with the sole specific purpose of antagonizing others? Somewhere in between? I think the article is very relevant, and I find that psychological definition of a Trolls personality as accurate. My definition of a Troll is where someone makes comments not to engage in debate at all but where they just want to upset people and have no real interest in sustained debate. I also don't Troll This is different to where someone makes unpopular or untrue comments, like Oby, but does believe what they say.

No it isn't and no it won't. I agree with Keyrock total clickbait, unlike Bryy I have a lot of time for CDPR as with GOG and their unrivalled support of their games they seem to be the good guys (refreshing in this industry) but these articles are always utterly ludicrous. Edit: To be honest I don't believe the two titles will bear that much similarity, so I can't see where competition would arise anyway, though I can see a lot of Bethesda hikers being a little put out with a set protagonist and a story, choice and consequence heavy game rather than the usual accesible sandbox. The reality is that headline is misleading. Did CPR really say that so specifically in the article? I think the other information about the overall development around W3 is much more relevant and interesting

Sexy time confirmed. Someone get Bruce's attention. If they were going to clone a character from Mars: War Logs, I would have rather it had been Devotion. As an aside, I hope they get the voice over guy to do the narration for the game, because holy smokes that's a hilariously bad voice over. That does look good and it appears to tick many of the boxes that define a good RPG But that narrator did sound terrible

My dinner date went really well so we decided to go out clubbing, that was a good idea until I started drinking Absinthe shooters, bad idea. I ended up getting very sick and the toilet became my friend These things happen but the problem being it was my moms b-day the next day and she had planned a family gathering. They live 40 minutes drive one way and I genuinely didn't think it was wise for me to drive considering how poorly I felt. So my mom is understandably upset with me. I now need to redeem myself with her and my stepdad which I am going to do

I support this point

I'd swear you're wearing straw-colored glasses lenses or something. 8P All "you put niceness coins in until you get rewarded with sex" implementations are romance options, but all romance options are not "you put niceness coins in until you get rewarded with sex" implementations, to put it simply. Dragon Age - give Morrigan jewellery - she bangs you, sure, but you missed out how your sexual prowess also boosts her magical powaz. That's right, the player is rewarded for having sex with NPCs - it also makes them more powerful. Your argument is bunk, to put it mildly. You are nitpicking now Monte, you know what he means

Monte I've recorded every possible Romance interest and arc for every character in every Bioware game since BG2, what I find always gets me in the mood for Valentines day is to sit and watch them, it just sets the right positive tone. I can send them to you if you want?

Thanks Indira, that's a very nice thing to say Getting supportive comments from people you like just reinforces my view on life, you rock !!!

That's a good question, I suppose the fact its suppose to be a celebration of love? Personally I think its a little commercialised but I don't want to be dismissive for those Romantic types

I hope you are darn right! Wait another 3-4 days, so give it 7 days. You were very sick, I know that restless feeling when you haven't trained for a while. You feel like you should be doing something and you feel like you are going to get completely out of shape but you'll be fine. It won't take you long to get back into your normal regime

Sooooooooo,,,,what are all your plans for Valentines day? I imagine some you have romantic plans for your respective partners or maybe you doing some quality gaming with an Isabela lookalike or someone equivalent? I have dinner booked with someone I met recently but its very early days so we will see how it progresses

If I may offer you some advice, rather go to a doctor than rely on any medical advice you find on the Internet

Interesting and relevant post, I didn't know Ivan the Terrible was gay. In fact I didn't realize so many prominent and historical Russian people were gay. I wonder how the Russian homophobic propaganda machine reconciles this ?

Yes. That comparison makes the same point as mine did. And I'm not really concerned with arguing the semantics of what is and isn't romance options. So, even though lots of people would say "But that isn't romance," I prefer to simply take an objective look at what can and cannot be done with interpersonal relationships between characters in a story, and go from there. To put it simply, the problem with "romance options" in RPGs, typically, ISN'T that the player is allowed to make decisions that affect emotional attachment and personal relationships with other characters, but that the game completely isolates that as its own sort of minigame. I mean, take the following situation: You arrive in a town and are ushered off to baths and accommodations by rather flirty servants/staff (you and your whole party), and you keep saying "No no, we really must be on our way," and yet they keep insisting you partake of their hospitality. Hey, your characters like all these pleasantries, right? You've been traveling for 3 days, and haven't had a meal like they're offering you in weeks. And, why NOT just go have some fun with willing people who are offering, eh? So, you have the choice of urging everyone to leave, or taking them up on their offer to indulge a bit in food, wine, and company. Annnnnnd it turns out there's actually something horribly wrong there, and it was all an illusion, and now you're imprisoned and they're feeding off your souls (you know, the ole Siren/succubus/seduce-and-feed scenario). And design it such that your decisions actually affect how bad of a situation you find yourself in, or how the story of that town unfolds and/or how you get to handle the situation. Maybe if you urge everyone to stay and enjoy themselves, you fail to get everyone out alive? *shrug*. That situation's totally fine, right? That's just a story, that happens to involve sex/temptation. But, have something just as meaningful/reactive that involves emotions between your characters, and it's suddenly the devil. Now, there could just be a town where you can purely optionally go visit some brothels and stuff, for pretty much no reason except to go "huh huh huh" to yourself or laugh at the funny dialog, and THAT, in comparison to a scenario in which your interaction with the brothel actually affects the unfolding of the story, would be just as crap as the way romance options are usually implemented in games in comparison to how they COULD be implemented in games. Heck, Morrigan in DA:O... even if you're just mean to her the whole time, she comes to you with a proposal to have your baby, because she actually has some kind of agenda for your DNA or something that doesn't even have anything to do with emotional attachment or "romance". Heck, I think even if you "romance" her, she still has the same motivation for wanting to produce a child of yours, and it's not just "Yay, you people who like romance can feel rewarded by achieving child-bearing desires in the person you chose to make fall in love with you! You win the dating sim!" That's about the best point I can make for that. Ignoring, of course, the fact that I don't think anyone still has any idea what the hell the point of her having your child is in relation to the ongoing DA story. OR the fact that, in the expansion, she somehow, unexplainably has your baby even if you don't impregnate her. Which might be explainable... she is magic, ya know... *shrug*. But, the point is, the story uses a pretty romancey thing (sex, impregnation) in a way completely separate from relationship-building mechanics. Good post Lephys, my character would definitely fall for the whole "succubus please rest in the Inn" subterfuge

Choose your battles Nonek, you can't seriously be getting upset around the realism factor of character costumes in a fantasy RPG

That sort of child-like naivety is just adorable. Really? I watch interviews with politicians all the time and that guy has one of the worst perspectives around gay rights I have ever seen. I have seen worse, in Uganda they have just passed a law where they have criminalized homosexual acts. On CNN they interviewed the minister responsible for the legislation around this and during the interview they asked him " how can you pass a law that contradicts the human rights of people and what the African Charter for Human Rights stand for, especially considering the fact Uganda signed up to the AU charter" He responded calmly " he doesn't think gay people have any rights "