BruceVC

You also got some loot and XP out of the romance-triggered encounters. The Yochlol ambush was pretty cool. Wasn't there something with Harpers too? Funny how actual consequences and integration have gone down, while ego stroking and fan service have gone through the roof. I seem to remember that Isabela's actions at a critical point in DA2 were also influenced by romance, but I'm not sure if that was necessarily locked to the romance—only played that game once. You also got some loot and XP out of the romance-triggered encounters. The Yochlol ambush was pretty cool. Wasn't there something with Harpers too? Funny how actual consequences and integration have gone down, while ego stroking and fan service have gone through the roof. I seem to remember that Isabela's actions at a critical point in DA2 were also influenced by romance, but I'm not sure if that was necessarily locked to the romance—only played that game once. Hi 2133 Where have you been, you have been conspicuous by your absence

The fact that people want Romance in RPG is no more obsessive than people who want multi-levelled dungeons, interesting armour, varied questing, realistic monster ecosystems and dozens of other things I could name that define the RPG experience for a person. Remember Monte that we never should presume to tell others what is acceptable content around there RPG experience, its very subjective Everything is subjective. Which is why saying it's subjective is, essentially pointless. I find Bioware's status as romance-purveyors of choice in their games unacceptable. There, I said it. I also strongly believe many of the wiser heads at that studio know full well the cul-de-sac that decision has trapped them in. Bioware has been hoisted on its own petard, imagine if one of their designers wanted to make a totally romance-free product? They couldn't. They are trapped. Bwahahahahahah. You say you think Bioware made a bad strategic decision by implementing Romance and they possibly regret it. Maybe so, we will never know. And I agree if they tried to remove Romance options from there games this would be a very unpopular decision and lead to an unprecedented furore. But I do know this. Bioware has millions of committed fans and tens of thousands of fans who support and enjoy Romance. These fans support the various RPG franchises that Bioware produces financially and Bioware generates large amounts of revenue through these fans of Romance. So the reality is I'm sure Bioware sleeps fine at night, I know I would

The rest is at the link. It gets.... super intense. From http://thoughtcatalog.com/leo-steven/2014/04/dear-girls-who-are-finally-ready-to-date-nice-guys-we-dont-want-you-anymore/ It's apparently real, just like that guy that is engaged to Twilight Sparkle and thus wants people to stop drawing MLP porn. That's an interesting link and post. For me the guy spends far too much time telling that women how fantastic he is now and how she missed out on a great opportunity. He claims he is normal and settled but I would argue hubris is his problem, he seems to revel in belittling her and makes some seriously personal attacks. Its obvious he has been carrying some baggage about his past treatment by her and hasn't moved on or is prepared to forget the past. So she should consider herself fortunate he rejected her He's not talking about a specific woman, though, as much as a sort of archetype of woman. It's sort of a rant about how he thinks in general there's a type of woman who wants to date bad guys when she's in her twenties, only to later switch to a nice guy to raise a family with when she's older - because while bad guys are fun, nice guys provide stability. But yeah, he sounds very bitter. I don't think he is such a nice guy as he thinks he is. Honesty I find his whole rant steeped in misogyny and vitriol. He does seem very materialistic and thinks that having the money to buy a new car automatically makes him a better candidate for women to date. I think its sad and I think he is embarrassing himself. Yes there are women who like " bad guys", but so what? There are also men who are drawn to younger women only for the perceived sexual gratification and how it makes them feel. These are all factors that show an insecurity. I say if someone wants to date a "bad guy" then move on and find the right women who will appreciate you for what you have to offer. But personally I don't compromise on my principles and I've met women who wouldn't date me because I didn't fit a certain image and that's fine. I have no issue at all with that , but it didn't make me bitter

The fact that people want Romance in RPG is no more obsessive than people who want multi-levelled dungeons, interesting armour, varied questing, realistic monster ecosystems and dozens of other things I could name that define the RPG experience for a person. Remember Monte that we never should presume to tell others what is acceptable content around there RPG experience, its very subjective

This is an important point. I am not advocating for detailed Romance cut scenes and I never have, I have access to adult websites if I wanted to watch videos. I am obviously not explaining my point properly. Romance in BG2 was done fine IMO. The Romance arc in any RPG is really done in your head and in your imagination. This same logic applies to every other aspect in this type of game, that's why its called a Role Playing Game. You mentally identify with your character and his journey, you don't have to see every part of the story to make it significant But you have to at least have the option for Romance to begin this identification

Monte you can't be seriously suggesting that because I think Romance is an important of an RPG experience that I am sexually frustrated....please tell me I am misunderstanding you?

The upside or downside of Romance is actually inconsequential, this is about the overall RPG experience that is offered to your character during the quest. For me the discussion is more about why people think that certain components of an RPG need to be part of the game like multiple spells, immersive lore, loads of dungeons to explore, non-Romance interaction with party members but the idea or concept of Romance is considered childish and anathema. Its a contradiction to what we say when we ask for " a realistic and immersive RPG experience". Yes work can be done on the implementation of Romance but Romance is still relevant

Wowzers, someone is taking this very seriously. I just used sex as an example of what would be the realistic outcome to a party of people going on a epic journey where they have to save the world. The point being it would be unrealistic to suggest relationships wouldn't develop under the circumstances and yes I'm sorry to say this but sex would more than likely occur.

The rest is at the link. It gets.... super intense. From http://thoughtcatalog.com/leo-steven/2014/04/dear-girls-who-are-finally-ready-to-date-nice-guys-we-dont-want-you-anymore/ It's apparently real, just like that guy that is engaged to Twilight Sparkle and thus wants people to stop drawing MLP porn. That's an interesting link and post. For me the guy spends far too much time telling that women how fantastic he is now and how she missed out on a great opportunity. He claims he is normal and settled but I would argue hubris is his problem, he seems to revel in belittling her and makes some seriously personal attacks. Its obvious he has been carrying some baggage about his past treatment by her and hasn't moved on or is prepared to forget the past. So she should consider herself fortunate he rejected her

okay that would highlight some faulty AI

Monte I have come to realize that there is a perspective to Romance I haven't explained and you anti-romancers haven't realised. Basically promancers truly embrace and understand the RPG experience on a greater level than people who don't interact with the Romance options. I can explain it to you if you want? In my mind, a smooth jazz soundtrack begins playing right around the last sentence of this comment. Okay since no one insisted I explain my point in detail I thought I would just jump in and explain it before someone asks, I believe in proactivity So the point is " Promancers embrace and understand the RPG experience more than anti-romancers" So we all come from different backgrounds and have different hobbies. But one thing that unites all of us is our love of RPG. We all share that common thread of thoroughly enjoying immersing ourselves in a fantasy world and experiencing a vicarious thrill of the trials and tribulations of people on epic quests to make a certain fantasy world a better place And when we spend time playing RPG most of us try to identify with the party and characters that make up that party. We can spend hours choosing what our characters looks like, we study books around lore, we choose spells and we adopt combat strategies. We also tend to consider choices in the game and what the impact those choices would have around future events. These are all normal tenets of what makes a RPG an enjoyable genre So now work with me good friends while I discuss what a typical day in a RPG game world constitutes and what this means for your character and party. Imagine what our protagonist goes through from a mental perspective. In the evening the party retires in the wilderness around a campfire after a hard day of adventuring. He has faced death and danger all day, he is probably on a quest to save the world or the kingdom. He could have traversed the planes and faced ancient demigods. In fact he could have realized he is immortal and has lived a thousand lifetimes And let us never dismiss the mental fortitude required to go on these epic quests, imagine knowing that this day may be your last and if you fail there could be a cataclysmic event that effects millions. This is not your typical bad hair day or bad day at the office. The stress levels that face our party must be huge and dilapidating Now our noble character sits around the campfire ruminating on the various choices that he needs to make, the choices that have global consequences. He looks up and see the voluptuous form of Isabela positioned against the campfire. She turns and walks towards him. Her full bodied breasts have a few drops of perspiration on them and her knee high pirate boots are glossy. She smiles, leans over and says " come to my tent, I want to ravish you " In what world or universe is any person under any circumstances going to say "no ". Why would you deny yourself that small amount of pleasure and diversion? It would be utterly unrealistic for your character to not say " yes I want to spend time not thinking about how I am going kill the ancient demon lord who devours souls for breakfast" And more importantly how can you not think that Romance would not naturally flourish amongst people that face death on a daily basis. Life would be short so any person would obviously look for ways to add meaning and significance to there existence outside of the epic quest and what is expected from them So good friends in summary, Romance should be seen as a realistic and obvious component of a RPG if you think of what a RPG means and all the factors that make up our adventures. Now promancers understand this, that is why we expect this type of interaction in our games. But to not believe that Romance should be part of overall game design demonstrates you don't have a realistic understanding of what our characters go through or what factors would help to ameliorate there mental state on a grand quest

Good idea, nice thread

Thanks for the detailed feedback

I think Keyrock has been keeping up to date with the progress but from the updates the feedback has been generally positive ?

Well that's another reason I think we are spoilt for choice this year, even if you don't like Bioware games there are other options like W2 and PoE

I sent it to you as a present, no need to thank me

You see that's the great paradox about Bioware games, especially ones with such an impressive marketing engine. We all really love Bioware games and the anticipation of the grand RPG journey that awaits us. Because for most of us despite what we say we long for a return to the classic enjoyment and fulfilment of the original games and there is always the slight hope that Bioware will deliver another indelible RPG experience

Gratz How long did it take you and how was it compared to DS1 ?

dude where is that from

Monte I have come to realize that there is a perspective to Romance I haven't explained and you anti-romancers haven't realised. Basically promancers truly embrace and understand the RPG experience on a greater level than people who don't interact with the Romance options. I can explain it to you if you want?

Wowzers but I made myself something so much better tonight. A smaller herb salad, avocado pear and feta. Then I did some over baked fish that is truly delicious.

You can't be serious???? Did you really think Oby was Mor?

Or that you can't romance the furry NPC unless you go on a quest to turn yourself into a werewolf. Possibilities are endless. Do you really think they would include some kind of Werewolf Romance? I doubt it...there more than enough options and excitement around humanoid Romance I can't wait to develop more meaningful and complex relationships in an RPG this makes one wonder why you have interest in the bioware romances... is a virtual oxymoron-- meaningful bioware romance. by definition, an optional game romance that is both insular and discreet has rather harsh limits on how meaningful it may be. HA! Good Fun! Gromnir surly you realize that Romance adds to a deeper connection with party members in a RPG , this has been irrefutably proven. You do know this right?

At this point, it is pretty much so. The last argument that I recall being "really" on topic was when Zoraptor failed to connect the current Crimean events to post soviet movements, arguing in favor of the provided referendum format. Other than that it has been a long ride of deflections from superficial similarities concerning other conflicts, to any number of tangent topic that conveniently allowed to avoid any criticism of Russia actions by feeding the Russia vs West/US paradigm so they can argue ideologies or policies, which catered to our Westren posters who aren't to happy with USA with their rants and conspiracy stuff, instead of posting in a relevant thread (btw Sarex I am still waiting to hear on why that banking scheme doesn't effect Russia) Overall this whole thing is really about "democracy". Like with china we all know about the situation of Democracy, human rights and various freedoms there but every discussion about change should be started with the understanding of its size and population (~1.4 Billion) etc.. IMHO for china any real change will be disaster. Same goes with Russia, it is not NATO that spooked Putin, it is democracy knocking on its doors, Putin wants a buffer between him and those ideas such as open society and independent mass media where opposing view can't be stumped out. So while the propaganda media coverage of Ukrainian events was outrageous, but overall the goal wasn't challenging the legitimacy of Ukrainian government which wasn't susceptible to "mother Russia" pressure and buried the fact that it was revolution against corrupted and criminal system of state relations(like in Russia) with Nazis scare crows. The goal was mostly about attacking the "western democratic/financial experiment", in order to suppress any positive sentiments toward its own opposition (on top of the usual things like mock trials of prominent political dissidents). Overall all those wars serve to bolster Putin's approval ratings, providing a distraction from his failure to turn the country into a modern state. Queen Catherine once said that she had no way to defend her borders but to extend them, ~similar thing might be said about Putin's effort starting with Chechnya, Georgia, Ukraine (more Ukraine to come soon? linking it with Moldova\transnistria) and OBy promised something about Azerbaijan.. Anyway you know the saying that there are three things we don't get tired of watching: Running water, burning fire and other people working. My adaptation is that there are three things we don't get tired of arguing about: Government, taxes and trying to prove we are right? That's a good post Mor, I hope the boys take the time to read and absorb it