BruceVC

Yes to a certain degree that's correct. Its the same as the laws in your country and mine that prosecute people for racist comments or comments about rape using mediums like Twitter. So you should take this issue up with the UK justice department? Let me know what they say

And yet the solution you advocate is to have women artificially seperated from men and granted a superior status, if you want women to be accepted hiding them away and treating them differently is not the correct method, a five year old could reason that out Bruce. It will do nothing except exacerbate the problem. No Nonek, I am not suggesting that now we automatically separate every female gamer from all men and they don't interact. I am saying if female gamers want there own space let them have it. But this should be optional. Then men should have their own space also, this is simple equality Bruce, if they have paid an equal amount of money then they should be treated exactly the same in all matters. To do otherwise is inequality, something that should never be tolerated. No Nonek, once again you don't understand the issue The reason why these females want there own groups is they feel genuinely harassed by male gamers. As has been explained through numerous examples this is a real problem for many female gamers. This is not a subjective debate Are you suggesting there are groups of male gamers who feel harassed by female gamers. Do you think you can find 10 male gamers that will tell you how they were discriminated against by lady gamers and they were victims of unacceptable sexual innuendo ? If so then yes...those male gamers should have there own groups But we both know the issue of sexism doesn't exist for your average male gamer so the same considerations don't need to apply

Amentep I consider you an intelligent and reasonable person. Did you read that link that Aluminium posted? You should find it very interesting

Thanks for sharing, I can give similar stories about ladies I know who have been harassed and abused online only because they are female. But you have made the point brilliantly that this problem is real and exists. What frustrates me the most about some people on these forums is that they have a view that either the problem that SJW raise isn't as severe as they make it out to be or there solution to address this problem isn't really a solution at all. In other words you hear comments like " but men get abused online...someone once was rude to me" or " I'm sick of hearing about this sexism issue " as if that makes any difference whatsoever to the reality of the situation Well the good news is that there is an increased awareness, solutions and condemnation from many circles of society around these types of social issues. So for those that are tired of hearing about sexism and misogyny my advice is " get use to it, its not going anywhere " And yet the solution you advocate is to have women artificially seperated from men and granted a superior status, if you want women to be accepted hiding them away and treating them differently is not the correct method, a five year old could reason that out Bruce. It will do nothing except exacerbate the problem. No Nonek, I am not suggesting that now we automatically separate every female gamer from all men and they don't interact. I am saying if female gamers want there own space let them have it. But this should be optional.

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage. Here's a fairly detailed analysis why. Okay I have only read this link and not Indira's, which I'll get to later, but this article is enough to completely put me off the books as offering any intrinsic value on any social issue For the record this very insightful and erudite analysis doesn't really say the books are about the abuse of women but it does the discuss the rampant objectification and gender stereotyping of women. How Bella is actually completely useless without Edward and she only really exists in the novels to embellish his personality. The books are a terrible example of educational and valid feminism and do more to enforce the subservient role that women need to have in some conservative cultures and groups. This is probably done unintentionally but the perception is still there I recommend everyone reads it, its long but worth it to gain the correct view on why Twilight is garbage. Last point and still relevant is Gaider didn't read the Twilight books because he wanted insight into gender equality. He wanted insight into why these books are so effective around Romance and also as a part of popular culture. I respect him for using multiple sources to attempt to find the right way to implement Romance in DA:I That was a quick change on opinion Bruce The point you miss (and feminism does in general) is that Twilight romance was so effective among teenage girls exactly because of this portrayal. The majority of women (especialy at these ages) actualy like to have a subservient role in their relationships. This isn't only in Twilight. Read True Blood or any other similar book. Most of the time the males are dominant in most aspects of the relationship. Or read paranormal romence or harlequin for adults. Same issue here. The males are always the dominating, badboy-playboy type that somehow is captured by the female protagonist. And then? He is loyal alright, but he is overprotective, he alwaystreats thae woman like a precious bubble and the woman is there just to support and love him(and to be resqued). In all of these cases is unintentional and not pushing a specific agenta. And yet they are always written for women and the target audience is women. How does this fits in your woldview Bruce? A friend of mine is married with an author of such books. One time she asked him if the man's reaction in one of her novels was realistic. (and believe me, if you wanted to search for sexist undertones in that particular scene, you would go crazy Bruce) And my friend laughed and said this wasn't how a man would react, this was how a woman wants a man to react. Food for thought. No I never said Twilight was a paradigm of gender equality. I said the Romance options appealed to a wide range of fans and the movies must have some value to have such support. But after reading that link the image Twilight projects is diametrically opposed to most of my views around the role of women in society so Twilights value has gone down dramatically in my books Also I doubt any educated young women raised in a home where gender equality is practised would chose to be willingly in a relationship where she has no identity and is subservient to a man. I'm not saying that doesn't exist but its something that is fundamentally wrong in many aspects of our society

They do and this is discussed in aluminiumtrioxid link.

Thanks for sharing, I can give similar stories about ladies I know who have been harassed and abused online only because they are female. But you have made the point brilliantly that this problem is real and exists. What frustrates me the most about some people on these forums is that they have a view that either the problem that SJW raise isn't as severe as they make it out to be or there solution to address this problem isn't really a solution at all. In other words you hear comments like " but men get abused online...someone once was rude to me" or " I'm sick of hearing about this sexism issue " as if that makes any difference whatsoever to the reality of the situation Well the good news is that there is an increased awareness, solutions and condemnation from many circles of society around these types of social issues. So for those that are tired of hearing about sexism and misogyny my advice is " get use to it, its not going anywhere "

But that's unpatriotic, you need to support German software developers. Isnt Piranha Bytes German? Don't be a bad citizen Lexx....support your country

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage. Here's a fairly detailed analysis why. Okay I have only read this link and not Indira's, which I'll get to later, but this article is enough to completely put me off the books as offering any intrinsic value on any social issue For the record this very insightful and erudite analysis doesn't really say the books are about the abuse of women but it does the discuss the rampant objectification and gender stereotyping of women. How Bella is actually completely useless without Edward and she only really exists in the novels to embellish his personality. The books are a terrible example of educational and valid feminism and do more to enforce the subservient role that women need to have in some conservative cultures and groups. This is probably done unintentionally but the perception is still there I recommend everyone reads it, its long but worth it to gain the correct view on why Twilight is garbage. Last point and still relevant is Gaider didn't read the Twilight books because he wanted insight into gender equality. He wanted insight into why these books are so effective around Romance and also as a part of popular culture. I respect him for using multiple sources to attempt to find the right way to implement Romance in DA:I

I do sometimes get the odd funny comment right hey Barti

Yes Monte it is. You need to prove to me you are right, please don't be lazy. You have loads of time to comment on how much you dislike Romance but you can't spend 5 minutes researching perceptions around Twilight. This tells me you lack commitment around your perspective I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them Bruce, you know I'm fairly vocal around here in my support of feminism in general, so maybe you'll believe me when I say that Twilight's absolute garbage. Here's a fairly detailed analysis why. I do respect both of your opinions immensely on almost most issues of social justice. Thanks for the links, I'll read them and get back to you

Barti you should try to play the Hitman series with the non-lethal strategy. That takes real skill, if you can get through the game without killing anyone then "you are da man "

I'm glad I'm not the only one who noticed that

I generally don't research issues that I feel are absolute rubbish. But people can provide credible links that support the view that Twilight somehow supports abusive relationships and I'll read them

You see your post highlights the issue I have with peoples opinions around Twilight. Its basically completely dismissive and condescending around something that millions of people really enjoy and identify with And that's the first time I have ever heard that Twilight somehow encourages acceptance of abusive relationships. You obviously are joking

oh thats clever....well played

Storage Area Network? What has that got to do with Gaider and the relevance of his blog

Yes I read that but he did watch all but one. Also his intention is to understand through various sources of popular entertainment, like Twilight, what resonates with people around topics like Romance. This is basically research for him and he is not watching Twilight to pass judgement on the entire genre.

That's very interesting, so you admit you haven't watched all the Twilight movies but you believe you can offer an informed opinion around the good and bad of this cult series ? Do you honestly think that this type of analysis would be considered acceptable and valid in RL around any other topic or subject that requires critical thinking? I'll leave it at that and you let ponder my words yes. is valid. how many episodes o' breaking bad were there? assume for a moment that we claimed to hate breaking bad. any jackarse that made claim that we should watch all five freaking seasons before making a judgment is nuts, stupid or just obtuse. am recalling that we walked out of a nicolas cage and tommy lee jones movie. how bad could it be with tommy lee jones and nicolas cage? were called firebirds and it were kinda a top gun knockoff... but cage was playing campy and everybody else were straight. 45 minutes were our limit, and no humane person woulda' demanded that we spend another minute watching before we justifiably dismissed firebirds as complete ****. we can go on if you wish. wheel of time books? how many of those were there? a dozen or so, right? each were 400-500 pages. no f-ing way. guess what, no novelist we know would demand that you read 24 chapters o' crap if the first 12 were horrible. we got some experience with this. is artists job to make appealing and not to make you endure. we is fair. not nice, but we is fair. HA! Good Fun! ps we liked breaking bad Fair enough, I agree about a long and excellent TV series like Breaking Bad. But I don't think its a fair and reasonable analogy to compare someone sitting through the entire Breaking Bad series just to confirm they don't like to someone watching the 5 Twilight movies in order to give objective analysis?

You right I could have said that and attempted to catch Gromnir out with that logic. But that isn't my intention. I was just raising the consideration with Gromnir that maybe he is doing exactly what Gaider is suggesting. He is disliking Twilight because " everyone" tells him its a puerile series. He is not practicing critical thinking but being more of a sheep. Also I don't think it is fair to suggest that anyone outside of being a 14 year old female teenager that enjoyed Twilight is a troglodyte that lives in a cellar. Especially if you haven't watched the entire series, this goes towards a persons credibility on a topic

I'm interested how you thought this thread would go? I never try to predict the direction or comments of people on forums when I comes to certain topics

That's very interesting, so you admit you haven't watched all the Twilight movies but you believe you can offer an informed opinion around the good and bad of this cult series ? Do you honestly think that this type of analysis would be considered acceptable and valid in RL around any other topic or subject that requires critical thinking? I'll leave it at that and you let ponder my words

Yeah, probably too many people complained.Me personally, I think Risen 2 is just meh not because of the pirates, but because the gameworld feels badly designed. Right now I feel no motivation to play Risen 3. The setting shown so far simply doesn't interest me at all. To be honest I'm confused by your guys comments. I don't know how you can formulate an opinion on the world setting in Risen 3 from a 2 minute video that showed a battle between the hero and some sort of undead necromancer in a ruin? Yes it doesn't appear to be a pirate theme, which I did enjoy, but surly we can't comment on the success of the Risen 3 theme until we actually know what it is....or am I missing something

No Gromnir you are mistaken on several levels Firstly you are doing exactly what Gaider talks about, you are dismissing the Twilight series and basically mocking the people who enjoy watching it. Do you think too many people are now going to say " yes I enjoyed Twilight " after your characterization of what constitutes Twilight fans? So basically you are drinking the "anti-Twilight kool aid " But what concerns me the most is you are saying you don't like Twilight but have you watched all movies in the series so you can engage in honest critical thinking about the good and bad ? Finally of course the themes of Romance are universal, you don't need to be a 14 year teenage girl to want fall in love and find true happiness. The idea of Cinderella may be naïve and idealistic but that doesn't change the fact that human beings do aspire for happiness and the idea of love, romance and contentment. Romance is something on a certain level that resonates with all of us if you are honest with yourself and you understand the definition.

Can you determine why they aren't active though? Is the forum (or its posters) uninviting or are women uninterested in posting? The recent boob armour discussion is a good example. Mihura posted she didn't like boob armour. (I'm assuming she's a girl). Also, I noticed that it was the guys who wanted boob scale armour or didn't have a problem with it. Yet, when a female posts her dislike for it, there's immediate disagreement from the guys. Even so far as someone pointing out Mihura's forum avatar. So it went from disagreement of boob armour to pointing out forums avatars? Then science and animals was introduced and Mihura pointed out 'Let's not go there'. Eventually, it appears Mihura has decided not to waste any more time and leave. I can see why some females may not be interested in posting on these forums. It's just not worth it. I'm not defending or white knighting. It's just an observation I noticed in that thread. Am I the only individual who thought it was Ms Mihura whom was being a touch confrontational and impolite, I was in general supporting her position on de-emphasising the bust and yet got called stupid for my troubles, and the tone of her posts to other respondents was similarly rather abrupt. Then again I am old fashioned and courteous to a fault so may be more easily shocked. Okay Nonek what did you say to her? You sound very guilty about something, tell me exactly how the conversation went and I'll let you know if it was sexist or dismissive. I am very good at determining intentional and unintentional bias against minority groups. Sometimes people don't even realize they are doling it so consider me your social justice barometer to help you wade through this sea of moral and offensive uncertainty. But you need to be honest and tell me EXACTLY what you said and how you said it You seem to be missing the point of my posts. Did you not read this part of what I posted before: If you're going to ridicule and take the discussion off topic and attack them, then I can understand why they might not feel welcome. So here's an easy question. If male gamers make personal attacks against female gamers, will they feel welcome? On a more serious note Hiro has succinctly summarised the real issue at hand. We should all be asking ourselves this question "how do we make female gamers feel welcome " Of course personal attacks don't help the situation but there is more we can all do if we are honest. I am not going to make any suggestions. It would be great if everyone thought about this and posted there own ideas. Remember this is no such thing as a bad suggestion around this discussion so don't be nervous that people may dismiss your views