BruceVC

It's not my assessment. I was quoting someone else and it's a basis of fact when dealing with science. You are trolling and you know it. It's counterproductive to ignore the facts, ignore the valid arguments people have put forward in these romance threads, ignore anything that goes against your view point just to post frivolous dismissive comments. We both know it even if you want to play a game of dodge and evade. There's been countless valid points raised against romances. And you've made a frivolous post saying you haven't seen a single valid reason against romances. It's not only ludicrous, it's trolling pure and simple. I have no issue if you guys admit to Trolling around this topic but don't assume I am Trolling. I mean everything I say, I am prepared to debate various points but I do occasionly joke. This is not the same as Trolling. I'm sorry you don't believe this but you will just have to take my word on it

How'd you determine it was the motherboard? Troubleshooting, the Ethernet interface is dead on the hardware level and my 3G USB router doesn't initialize but only on the laptop. Also there are various driver failures on the network level It may be something else but once the Motherboard is replaced I'll confirm for sure

No Bruce. The OP's first post has been proven to be biased with it's so called science and not using science for it's against argument. It's neither intelligent nor logical. Bruce, you should take note of the intelligent posts that highlighted the OP's biased first post and not ignoring those posts. And there's been valid reasons why not to have romances. This post of yours is trolling. It really is. And I think you know it does as you're just **** stirring by saying things like, not seeing one valid reason and saying to other posters to be honest with themselves. Seriously, it's just trolling posters on this forum and everyone can see it. Nah, I reject your assessment of the Op's post. Lets not throw the term "trolling" around whenever we don't agree with the sentiment of others. Its counterproductive to the objective of the actual debate.

" was to whine about Obsidian's" You see the moment I see a comment like this I realize that despite all the apparent endless discussions about Romance some people in the anti-Romance crowd still don't understand what promancers have been saying. We aren't whining, we are logically and intelligently articulating the various reasons why Romance enhances the RPG experience. I have yet to see a single valid reason posted by anyone that explains how optional Romance dilutes the anti-romance gaming experience. But there have been many reasons posted why Romance adds to deeper interaction with party members and a more memorable RPG gaming experience Stun if you are honest with yourself you know I'm right

I went away for the weekend to a mountain resort, very relaxing. We went hiking and just chilled. It was awesome, I came back and discovered my laptop needs a new motherboard so I've been without normal Internet access for the last 2 days

", sent by my Mom--who still thinks it's 2010 and wouldn't know what a PS4 or Radeon 7850 is anyway" That sounds just like my mom..

I like the concept of being able to flesh out my own Romance in game, I'm not sure how practical it would be but it sounds very interactive

We should make an offering. Would sixty dollars and a bottle of rum suffice? What did Jaesun use to say that was so interesting Monte?

Congrats on the new place and we'll chat when you are connected again

Don't be weak Keyrock, imagine how much fun you'll have once the game is released if you only play it then

Well, was more thinking of older events. And mentioning CAR was about the outrage machine giving a f**k rather. And I guess if Africa is to resolve their own problems, isn't this Ugandan issue up to them as well without the West's prodding them to fall in line ? You've raised an excellent question but no this isn't the same thing. There are times where intervention from other countries is necessary in Africa even if Africa doesn't want it. This is about human rights and the dignity of certain groups that become the victims of discrimination. You can't expect foreign aid and then treat your citizens in a way that is abhorrent to those countries giving the aid. That's just not the way it works

Would make the forum a better place, I'd say. What's the point of wasting time discussing crap you know won't be in due to the game's feature cutoff (hopefully, anyway) being passed by now. Are you pro-romance people trying taking the oppressed label now ? No Malc what would make forum a better place is if you guys took issues of social justice seriously and agreed words can be offensive, this is just a discussion around Romance in RPG

Precisely. Everyone is convinced he is in the right and justified. Everyone has reasons why they think/believe what they do. Everyone operates on the same basic principles. It basicly boils down to "my views and morals are better than yours". I'm just being honest here. I don't call the intervention good, even if it's result would be good. Two wrongs may make a right, but it's still two wrongs. If I had to kill one person to save ten, I'd do it. But I wouldn't go around saying that specific action was a "good" and "moral" thing. I don't even think those words apply anymore to such complex things. I reject your assessment around the point that "there is no such thing as morally wrong". And certain actions and decisions are absolutely justified

Amusing, when you see how well they've responded to other easily identifiable events in Africa. Actually the West plays a huge part in assisting Africa, almost all military missions in Africa are funded by the UN and primarily Western countries. You mentioned CAR earlier, there are already French troops in the country but they need more. When is Africa going to be able to resolve its own problems through it own funding? There is no reason African countries can't commit more troops to CAR but nothing is happening as they lack political will and don't seem to want to commit there own resources. But they wouldn't stop Western countries sending more of there own soldiers ?

Of course I want to discuss NPC interaction, who wouldn't. But we haven't finished the discussion around Romance yet, now the ending of this debate may be nebulous but I would consider people finally being reasonable when I have managed to convince someone like you about the necessity and importance of Romance in RPG. Now I'm not being unreasonable because I know I can't persuade someone like Monte

Nah, Western countries are easily able to identify when something is unacceptable around bigotry like Apartheid or this Homophobic Bill based in Uganda. There is no right or wrong, there is only wrong. It may be partly based on the moral definition but the main reason for it is based on the suffering of the group that is being targeted and discriminated against. There suffering and humiliation is real, there is debate around this

I thought this was a serious Dragon Mod at first,

Good points as well, and definitely getting a nice size group of people on your side is one of those powers I was talking about previously it is especially effective if you can put enough stress on these companies that it would drastically effect the economy of the country. It would at the very least get some attention from those who legislated those laws. Also apparently as I was just typing this, the World Bank has postponed a $90 million dollar loan to Uganda's healthcare system; stating the bank itself opposes discrimination. This also follows suit from Norway and Denmark not sending any donations to Uganda due to the passing of this law. Now we get to the next topic Law vs. Morally Right By Society. This is a tough one since Laws are in place to keep the populous in check otherwise there would be nothing but chaos (I like to think of it as a Mad Max kind of dystopian world). Both matters are highly subjective depending on the time period is in and what the majority of the populous thinks on the issue. The problem with this is majority of Africa does not approve of Homosexuality so that will be the general consensus for that society group in which it can take a very long time to change that mindset. What better way to get people to stop doing something they don't like? Make a law that threatens that persons freedom, this also goes in hand with the onlookers that know about it but say nothing. You've raised a good discussion point. "majority of Africa does not approve of Homosexuality" That's mostly true but I like to raise the question "why". This generally stems from religious interpretation and old Colonial laws. But for me there is a more important consideration. The African Charter for Human Rights clearly states that you mustn't discriminate against people. And all African countries are signatories to this charter. So if individual countries choose to pass laws that enforce bigotry they are in clear contravention of the AU manifesto. So there is a legal precedent that should supersede any religious or personal view. And yet the AU seems incapable of enforcing its own rules. This is one of the major contributing factors IMO around why the AU and the continent hasn't achieved its full potential, despite the fact it is more than capable of reaching great economic and social heights

I'm sure you'll have fun, Skyrim isn't lacking in content and compared to Oblivion it almost doesn't need mods at all. I'd definitely install the Unofficial Skyrim Patch though, so many little annoyances fixed A mod to make dragon fights harder is a necessity. I can only think of two off-hand, one added a bunch of rainbow dragon otherkin garbage and 25235mb of irrelevant garbage, so I never downloaded that. The one I got took things a bit too far and gave every dragon the ability to use Alduin's meteor shower shout (with buffed damage, totally ignoring player level,) as well as summoning other dragons for support. It also causes their wingflaps and landings to make you go flying and ragdoll. It's fun when it's not ludicrously murdering every NPC in every town with a hail of meteorites. I wish there was a mod to make Delphine killable would be the ultimate 10/10 best mod ever for Skyrim. I'm planning on using several Dragon mods. I want the ones that add more dragon varieties and the ones that make the battles harder. Also there is one that adds uber- dragons to the game that looks cool.

I'm glad you mentioned "won't be true of everyone" Myself and many others like me won't forget what is happening in Uganda until this inhuman law is rescinded. There are already several activist campaigns in South Africa being discussed that will be implemented. Also some European countries have cut aid. The question you need to ask yourself about all these issues around social justice is " how strongly do you personally feel about something" and " are you just going to comment on the Internet or get more involved" I choose the latter Unfortunately believing in something isn't enough, the reality of it is you need to have some kind of power that can contest against these social injustices you also have to bear in mind of the enemies you'll make along the way since your trying to 'change' something. Good points In South Africa there are several companies that have major investments in Uganda, so there is an active campaign to put pressure on these companies to discuss internally with the Uganda authorities what they are doing is unacceptable and how this going to impact investment. Also I am active participant on a prominent South African radio station so people like me phone in to position why this homophobic legislation is abhorrent and contradicts what the African Union is suppose to stand for. You may think this is ineffective but helps change the mind set of people. So for example you hear people say things like " Uganda is a sovereign country, we need to leave them to make there own decisions" Easy to dispute "South Africa is a sovereign country but they implemented Apartheid which discriminated against people because of the colour of there skin. Just because a law is passed it doesn't make it valid or just and it certainly doesn't mean other countries can't get involved to change that law " If it wasn't for the intervention of other countries Apartheid would never have ended

I'll be honest, I never get tired of this discussion. Just when I think I need a break or I've heard every possible point someone adds a different perspective around the importance of Romance, so this discussion is almost interminable with all the possible nuances "Interminable" is definitely the right word. Unless it's "insufferable." I have an noticed an influx of new promancers lately. So its been interesting hearing all the new views

That's actually part of pretty much exactly what I am saying. The low hanging fruit has two major parts, the typical responses- "oh no, how terrible, I'll solve it by posting to the internet about it or maybe proposing a boycott that won't effect me in the slightest"- and people tending to get outraged at stuff that is fed to them by the media, ie easily available information, instead of worse stuff that is accessible with a little work. In a few weeks the media and most people will have forgotten about Uganda's laws, having never even known about or forgotten the Gulf's, or Malcador's example of Central African Republic. So in other words it has little work required to find out about it, at least in the general sense, and requires little effort in response. That is pretty much the definition of low hanging fruit. (I will freely acknowledge that that won't be true of everyone, of course; and that it is also a rather natural human response- which is self evident, since it wouldn't happen otherwise. Some people will do something practical about injustices, and remember over the long term, and do research. Most won't though, because those things are hard, and the next distraction will arrive.) I'm glad you mentioned "won't be true of everyone" Myself and many others like me won't forget what is happening in Uganda until this inhuman law is rescinded. There are already several activist campaigns in South Africa being discussed that will be implemented. Also some European countries have cut aid. The question you need to ask yourself about all these issues around social justice is " how strongly do you personally feel about something" and " are you just going to comment on the Internet or get more involved" I choose the latter

I'll be honest, I never get tired of this discussion. Just when I think I need a break or I've heard every possible point someone adds a different perspective around the importance of Romance, so this discussion is almost interminable with all the possible nuances

Yeah, that was one of my biggest gripes about both Fallout 3 and Fallout: New Vegas. If you're stumbling through a wasteland of abandoned buildings and you're looking for supplies, which one would you set your sights on: the boarded up, untouched building or the building with welcoming, open doors? It was annoying that I couldn't break into the closed-up buildings since, according to my logic, those would have a greater chance of still containing something useful. I dunno, Fallout 3 had enough explorable buildings for me, I just think it needed more (questy) reasons to go inside them. New Vegas was quite frustrating on the first play through, I'd go running towards something and eventually reach a boarded up building or an empty shack...a shack with it's own map marker ffs. I got over it when I realised the game compensates with crazy levels of plot and gameplay choice but NVInteriors fills in the blanks really nicely. I get what you're saying about easily accessible ruins full of pre-war loot, it'd be pretty cool if future games had sealed buildings you needed tools and skills to enter, as well as ruins that had been picked clean and re-purposed by raiders and suchlike. Is there an NVInteriors equivalent for Skyrim? Not that I know of, Skyrim doesn't have any inaccessible buildings or a lack of dungeons, though at the time I thought it really needed more NPC houses to break into, Oblivion and Morrowind spoiled me there. Okay thanks, I'll be playing Skyrim soon for the first time and I'll be starting to plan my Mod list

Wisconsin mature cheddar rocks. Do you know you have the oldest cheddar in the world, its 30 years old. Imagine what it tastes like