BruceVC

Excellent post, QFT I just want to reiterate a point you made. I know many people who make comments like " wow promancers are weird, they want to Romance people in a game. Get a RL girlfriend , you people need to get a life" and similar comments The objective or interest in Romance is no more weird than people who want meaningful and sincere interaction with party members, people that demand realistic armour or weapons, people that want a realistic game economy or dozens of other examples I can give that constitute and define your RPG experience A person should never demonstrate the hubris to tell others that asking for feature X or feature Y is weird or unreasonable in a RPG. We all have different expectations and things we enjoy when we play a RPG

Romeo and Juliet Titanic West Side Story (although this is only modernized version of Romeo and Juliet) Before Sunrise Pride and Prejudice Anna Karenina Gone With the Wind The Notebook The Time Traveler's Wife Jane Eyre Message in a Bottle As for example of critically acclaimed novels and movies that have romance as one of their main focal points. Wow Longknife, you talk about your point being utterly and completely negated. Back to the drawing board for you my friend Its a completely ridiculous suggestion to make that the idea of Romance is not a central theme in many movies or books

Interesting How far do you get in games? And what is the reason you quit before the end?

http://www.polygon.com/2014/8/27/6075679/sarkeesian-driven-out-of-home-by-online-abuse-and-death-threats I really think that this dislike of Anita Sarkeesian is going to far, seriously guys I get some you don't like her but when a person doesn't feel safe in there home due to Internet harassment we should be asking WTF is going on. People don't like the message, so whats the solution? I know...we kill the messenger. Its sad that some men feel so threatened by her that they want to do her actual harm

Really? I find that hard to believe, any links to back that up? I always try to finish every game I play, sometimes to the point of frustration where I am not having that much fun but I don't want to feel I wasted money. In fact there are only 2 games I know I haven't finished, The Guild and Far Cry 2

That's a rough one, but I'm glad your dad is okay

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLm8D4f8njo Most of you are probably aware that the classic arcade game Gauntlet is being remade, here is a video around gameplay. It looks fun

Sexy vampires or bust. Santanico Pandemonium is hella sexy. She is the hottest vampiress I have ever seen in any TV series or movie

By legislation you mean forcing people to hire X amount of women? This cannot be a long term solution. No doubt this has resulted in a different kind of unfair hiring practices. I imagine that they have those in place but there are so few women/minorities interested in gaming and willing to relocate that they can't fill those posts. I agree with this, in South Africa we have open positions in various businesses that don't always get filled because they are affirmative action positions and companies battle to find suitable candidates

By legislation you mean forcing people to hire X amount of women? This cannot be a long term solution. No doubt this has resulted in a different kind of unfair hiring practices. You may see it as forcing people to hire women, or other minorities, I see it as correcting an imbalance around employment practices in the work place and corporations. I see it as a progressive and necessary social step in order to have all people of any particular country fairly represented in the business sector. You should see this as something positive

. Just that "I don't like women" or is there some perception that a woman with kids will work less and is more high maintenance? Yes its as simple as that, there are certain cultures and people that have a view that a women in a particular job cannot be as efficient or effective as a man doing the same job. Therefore they prefer not hiring women. It sounds ridiculous but its a real form of bigotry and discrimination that exists in most societies which is why we have certain legislation in many countries that aims to prevent this practice of sexism

What if a feminist wrote a book about the trials and tribulations they have been through as a women in the corporate world but have now achieved respect and financial success. So this book is can be used a source of motivation for younger women grappling with similar issues. Would you still be opposed to this type of revenue generation from a feminist?

You should ask me that question directly young grasshopper Of course I don't consider that a factor when I look at historical artworks, but back then gender equality wasn't the issue it is nowadays. I am more concerned with reasonable and fair gender representation in games going forward than I am concerned with why 200 year old artwork may or may not contain the same representation

Are we sure that is absolutely true, that " any major gaming news site either tried to ignore or actively silence this case" ?

Excellent post, I particularly like the one definition of Assange which I think is particularly relevant "self important narcissist" Also as you mentioned if the USA really wanted to extradite him so badly wouldn't they just request it through the UK where they do this type of thing fairly regularly? Maybe someone can explain that one

No of course not that wouldn't be practical or reasonable But on a controversial issue like Romance, where people admit supporting a game because they thought it would be in, it probably makes more sense to announce its inclusion or exclusion from the beginning ?

He does mention Roberta Williams in the article. Also for me Video games are already a form or art, I just don't this is widely accepted though?

It is ? Thought it was just a campaign against one woman. I wish it was that simple. If it was just about Zoe I wouldn't comment at all. For some this has been a way to undermine feminist ideals and the gender equality movement. There are many comments similar to " this just highlights what hypocrites Feminists are " or " this is why I don't support these types of equality movements" I have to be honest I am surprised you cannot see this in some of the comments and what they are really saying?

I tried to stay away but the allure was too strong when it became clear this was an attack from some on the campaign for gender equality

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/20/arts/video-games/those-underappreciated-female-video-game-pioneers.html?_r=1 Guys here is a good read. Because of all the negative publicity around the Zoe Quinn incident we don't want to loose sight of the objective of gender equality in games on all levels This article discusses what women developers have done for the industry To quote the last paragraph of the article " Video games will never be widely accepted as the art form of interactive culture if half of humanity doesn’t help to shape their future" In other words we need more female involvement and representation in gaming development, that's what I understand by this?

I have to correct you on something, the official announcement that there wont be Romance came months after the game was funded. Up to then we were still debating if Romance would be in. Most promancers, like me, assumed they would be in the game on some level I am not saying we were mislead but next time it would probably be better to just say in the beginning of the KS funding phase " there will be no Romance in PoE due to reason X or reason Y " That way there will be less consternation and no surprises for any promancer I specifically recall the word on the matter being "We will consider it," aka a resounding MAYBE, with little tidbits tossed in like "I'd have to convince Chris Avellone it's worth pursuing, and he hates writing romance." Any fan of Obsidian would know this as common knowledge. Yes, you got a resounding "maybe," but you were definitely warned and informed that's one hell of a maybe. And yes I read your post. I'm directing my comments here more at anyone in general rather than you yourself, as like you said, you don't feel mislead or anything Yes I agree the initial stance from Obsidian around Romance was not positive and I know that Chris doesn't like writing Romance. But why should you think his view on any topic be automatically considered the only valid one? I imagine the whole development team, long time Obsidian staff and forum feedback also play an important part in what features should be in a game? So I'm just emphasizing the fact that it was equivocal whether Romance would be in PoE until long after the game was funded. And that's what some promancers are objecting to

The really ironic thing and best illustration given the subject matter is that if you'd talked about the things that Manning or Snowden revealed, prior to them being revealed, chances are you'd have been labelled a conspiracy theorist- despite them being correct. But how does that change the fact that both men jeopardized the security of the USA? How does it negate the fact that any country in the world would seek to prosecute anyone who did what Snowden and Assange did around confidential information?

I have to correct you on something, the official announcement that there wont be Romance came months after the game was funded. Up to then we were still debating if Romance would be in. Most promancers, like me, assumed they would be in the game on some level I am not saying we were mislead but next time it would probably be better to just say in the beginning of the KS funding phase " there will be no Romance in PoE due to reason X or reason Y " That way there will be less consternation and no surprises for any promancer

Yip typical RPG Codex stratagem, it isn't helping the situation and is creating more misinformation

Using 'conspiracy theorist' as a pejorative is about as sure a sign as there is of having a closed limited thinking mind filled with stuff dictated to you by others (aka: brainwashed). If you actually use your mind to think, you'll realize how stupid it is use that phrase so. As for the legal things Assange might face? Hurlshot has a very simplistic and jaded view of the legal system, and is likely incorrect in regards to what would happen to Assange. What he describes is the exception, not the rule, though it is a commonly perceived misconception when it comes to criminal or other trials. Of course reinforced on the laymen by mass media such as the very talk shows he refers to. What would happen would depend to a large degree on the political environment at the time, as would what would happen to Snowden if he ended up in the U.S. again. There are definitely very powerful people that would like to get their hands on both of them and 'make them pay'. And if they did they would likely not let Assange or Snowden see a fair trial in the light of day, or even the light of day itself. Both would likely be looking at a trial unlike what most U.S. citizens are used to seeing on 'Court TV' or some other such thing. The trials would likely be more akin to what Bradley Manning or Zacarias Moussaoui faced. The chances of Assange ever making the talk show circuit in the U.S. is extremely slim; probably about as good as my chances of winning the 100+ million dollar jackpot in the Mega-millions lottery this week. But really, this is something that will depend a lot on public perception and what's going on in the world at the time it happens. Though I think it's a safe bet that neither Assange nor Snowden would have a good time if they ended up in the U.S. again as things currently are. It would likely take a pardon, which our current president and the perennial likely candidates for that office are unlikely to give, for Snowden or Assange to ever enjoy themselves freely on U.S. soil. And that's not something that is going to happen as things currently are. Though there is slow growing awakening amongst the populace that it should (in large part due to the efforts of Assange, Snowden, and others like them). You make some good points and I don't disagree with everything you are saying But from my perspective Snowden should get a much worse sentence than Assange. He was an American citizen who truly betrayed his country and the importance of "secrecy" when he worked for the NSA So if I was Snowden I would also be very worried about returning to the USA, he has good reasons. Assange was never an American citizen and due to my lack of understanding of the USA legal system its unclear to me what he could be charged for?