BruceVC

http://www.polygon.com/2014/10/15/6984715/anita-sarkeesian-utah-state-university-death-threats Here is something interesting, we should all know by now about the death threats levelled at Anita that caused her to cancel her appearance at the Utah university but I didn't realize just how seriously the authorities were taking them

Exactly. The greatest irony is that the more that media outlets come out and demonize this game the more it is likely to sell. It's how Leisure Suit Larry became an iconic game and launched into a highly successful series. Initially, LSL sold poorly, but then the media started covering how immoral and terrible and evil it was and OH MY GOD THINK OF THE CHILDREN and the game started selling more and more and more, because it was "taboo". Of course, it helped that LSL was a legitimately good and funny adventure game that was in reality a lot more about self-deprecating humor than about BEWBS, but all the negative coverage it got certainly helped that game become a financial success. That's a good point about LSL and how it relates to Hatred I remember when LSL first came out Apartheid was still in place in South Africa and the game was considered immoral and a "corruptive influence to healthy minds".....just the thought of playing it was a cardinal sin according to the state . So what did we do...we all played it to see what the big deal was and the ideas and concepts were very unique for us and the game was very entertaining

This is exactly what I am going to do, I'll just ignore it But there is also no doubt in my mind that there will be people who will play this game for the reason that they think this type of game is a rebellion against the status quo and in fact this game offers "true entertainment " And that's fine, people are perfectly entitled to spend money on any game they want

Holy Smoke !!! This game is going from bad to worse, now they are playing the Neo-Nazi card....it doesn't get worse than that. This confirms my initial view...Volo definitely mustn't play this game !!!

Mass murder opportunities have never been in short supply. I could do mass murder in BG in 1998. I can do mass murder in Dishonored today (the Conspiracy members are off-limits but everyone else is fair game). The funny part is I never did. I know that pixels don't feel pain - just somehow I'm never in a mood for a pointless virtual killing spree. Anyway, Hatred reminds me of Carmageddon. I like its punk attitude and I love how it stirred up the hornet's nest. Again all those sanctimonious moralists will burst their lungs crying about a video game. And thinking about their futile efforts makes me laugh. And I like things that make me laugh. But that's my point, there are several games where you can embark on a campaign of mass murder. Like any GTA game, so why is it such a novel idea for them and why do they think this is something different ?

Yeah that's another inaccurate video about the state and nature of GG That sounds like something I would say...its just the wrong way around

Yeah that's another accurate video about the state and nature of GG

I went to the website of that Hatred game to ask them what was the purpose of this game but there forum isn't active, but on there front page is the following "The question you may ask is: why do they do this? These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art, rather than just an entertainment – we wanted to create something against trends. Something different, something that could give the player a pure, gaming pleasure. Herecomes our game, which takes no prisoners and makes no excuses. We say ‘yes, it is a game about killing people’ and the only reason of the antagonist doing that sick stuff is his deep-rooted hatred. Player has to ask himself what can push any human being to mass-murder. We provoke this question using new Unreal Engine 4, pushing its physics (or rather PhysX) systems to the limits and trying to make the visuals as good as possible. It's not a simple task, because of the game's non-linear structure and a lot of characters on the screen. But here at Destructive Creations, we are an experienced team and we know how to handle the challenge" I think there reason is terrible for creating this game. Firstly do they not consider the hundreds of games that exist entertaining? We are more spoilt by choice than ever And why is mindless killing different? Is allowing the player to commit mass murder really whats lacking? And is this type of game really going to give players the pleasure that is somehow missing from all the games at our disposal ? Is this what they define as entertainment

Wow, that's a big statement about a career change . Can you share more information. Why did you decide this? What type of bar..gastro pub ....strip bar...student bar..upmarket. How big is it going to be ? What will the quality of food be like, if you are offering food. Its very exciting

I read that link and I watched the video, firstly Paul Huban comes across as very honest and sincere. But he also says things like the Quinn incident sleeping with Grayson is inconsequential and he is more concerned with nepotism at IGF. He seems very apologetic about offending ex-friends, but what video did he post about IGF? I couldn't find that as it was private in Youtube Can you find his original video he posted that caused the issue?

Hiro do you think you could possibly make some constructive comments about this topic instead of petulant blanket insults and opaque statements about "some people" I know its going to be hard, but I have confidence that you can say something interesting?

Actually is more of a knee jerk reaction. There was an experiment with monkeys and social conditioning, the monkeys where locked in a room that had a stair and a fruit on top of it. When a monkey tried to reach for the fruit they turned on a spray that hit the monkeys on the bottom. Eventually the monkeys began self policing; when a monkey tried to get the fruit the rest would stop it. Then they began taking out monkeys and putting new ones in and when the new guy tried to get the fruit the rest would stop it. Eventually the new monkeys would join in the policing attempts. They continued this until the original group was completely replaced and the monkeys still had the conditioning. Its ritual without the meaning. Actually I would say you are both wrong, where does it say in the comment from Epic games the reason they want there image removed is due to nature of the game. In fact they state "and we explicitly don't exert any sort of creative control or censorship over projects " so this is really a trademark issue But don't get me wrong, I think Epic games should say they want nothing to do with this game because of the nature of the game. But that's not the reason they are giving, so this is not a "SJ knee-jerk reaction" @ Volo I really don't think its a good idea you even entertain playing this game. I am worried about the negative impact it will have on you

I want to respond to this detail Orog, I am just about to start our weekly sales meetings so I'll comment later

Picture of journalist who either favourited and retweeted these bullying tweets: http://imgur.com/2o6lNXc This with what Orogun1 posted is damn depressing. These guys are openly encouraging bullying and the Guardian wont even talk with pro-GG crowd and labels them as idiots. I think I'm going to take a few day break from this. I thought when this started to hit mainstream media I would get to see more balanced articles, you know, reporters talking to the both sides, but no. No, no no. Lazy reporting what others have reported or even denouncing pro-GG crowd, like the Guardian. And why in the hell everyone keeps talking about Zoe? She is as important to GamerGate as Gavrilo Princip was to World War I. I agree with you, I think it is childish and unhelpful to suggest that all the people who support GG are " nerds who should be shamed into submission"' There are many people who support GG for reasons that are very valid to them and these types of insults must just be ignored

You asked me a question and I gave you a perfectly reasonable answer, now you don't like my answer? I'll explain it a different way, end of the day if you want to do something about harassment and abuse on the Internet all you can do make personal stands and make a decision on principle, you are not necessarily going to impact change but that's not the point . Because no one controls the Internet. So what does this mean? As I mentioned distance yourself from GG, but explain the reasons why when you make this break. This does not mean you are suggesting every person on GG is guilty of abuse and misogyny. But GG is tainted, so rather don't support the overall movement. You can still discuss issues with gaming journalists but what you guys fail to grasp, despite the fact I repeat it regularly, is that GG won't achieve anything because of its lack of real support from the gaming industry And if you disagree with me then can you explain what changes GG has effectively been responsible for implementing? Because for me all it seems to do is polarize discussions? And then going back to what else you can do. If for example you are on a website that allows bigotry, like RPGCodex, then challenge people who make homophobic, rape jokes or anti-Semitic comments. Its not easy I know that, its much simpler just to say nothing. But once again when you make a decision around principle that becomes the salient reasons why you may or may not criticize certain comments. Never ask yourself "what will people think of me if I say this " ? (and of course sometimes this is a consideration ) Finally the objective of challenging abusive behaviour on the Internet is also to use your discretion, so there are times where you just have to let certain comments slide. Considering how many GG supporters are in the same position you were when you decided to stick by feminism and SJWs when you found out about their harassment, I would have thought you were more empathetic as to why people stick by GG despite is faults. Despite the harassment games themselves are not misogynistic, and right now GG is what is standing from feminist censorship of medium. I can completely understand people standing by GG, I would also stand by a movement that aligned with me ideologically But I can't understand why people would stand by a movement that has been hijacked by some of its members to push a certain agenda and that has tainted the ideological objective And just to be clear can you give me examples where feminist opinions have lead to actual censorship in the gaming industry. I know there is an amount of criticism of certain games but where has this lead to actual games now changing in way that has effected you personally. I can't think of any examples, so if you look at a game like GTAV it still exists and is still very popular despite the calls of sexism and misogyny ( and for the record I really enjoy the GTA franchise )

I'm playing F.E.A.R 2 at the moment, its good fun. I know there was criticism that it wasn't as entertaining as F.E.A.R 1 but I am enjoying it I have noticed it seems easier than the first one and the AI of the enemies isn't as impressive, but I may just be imagining that ?

You asked me a question and I gave you a perfectly reasonable answer, now you don't like my answer? I'll explain it a different way, end of the day if you want to do something about harassment and abuse on the Internet all you can do make personal stands and make a decision on principle, you are not necessarily going to impact change but that's not the point . Because no one controls the Internet. So what does this mean? As I mentioned distance yourself from GG, but explain the reasons why when you make this break. This does not mean you are suggesting every person on GG is guilty of abuse and misogyny. But GG is tainted, so rather don't support the overall movement. You can still discuss issues with gaming journalists but what you guys fail to grasp, despite the fact I repeat it regularly, is that GG won't achieve anything because of its lack of real support from the gaming industry And if you disagree with me then can you explain what changes GG has effectively been responsible for implementing? Because for me all it seems to do is polarize discussions? And then going back to what else you can do. If for example you are on a website that allows bigotry, like RPGCodex, then challenge people who make homophobic, rape jokes or anti-Semitic comments. Its not easy I know that, its much simpler just to say nothing. But once again when you make a decision around principle that becomes the salient reasons why you may or may not criticize certain comments. Never ask yourself "what will people think of me if I say this " ? (and of course sometimes this is a consideration ) Finally the objective of challenging abusive behaviour on the Internet is also to use your discretion, so there are times where you just have to let certain comments slide.

Wow, this place got weird while I wasn't watching. Nah this thread has always been weird

Its more the mindless principle of the game design I am objecting to. I thought you guys demanded creativity....this game sets the bar very low

I really enjoyed GR1 but I won't lie, I had to use several videos to solve some of the puzzles I am glad I'm not the only who battled in that game

Nope that was pretty much what I was getting at. And convictions - unless as you pointed out earlier they might get you into trouble at work, in which case well they can take a back seat. You cheeky Malc, but that story about work is a completely different example

Ah, GG will lose out in the end, but it's nice to see things torn up. Wu's hard now, by the way - http://www.xojane.com/it-happened-to-me/brianna-wu-gamergate That's the one thing we do agree on. GG will lose out in the end and its not because the other side is necessarily intellectually or morally superior. Its because GG is tainted and as I have said several times no serious players in the gaming industry will stand by it so you won't see any changes they aspire to being implemented. So it should just run out of Steam when people get bored?

I'm not really sure any of you offer anything constructive, really, well beyond making yourselves feel better, perhaps. Have to laugh at all the crying over this too, not much real damage done on either side - keep hearing of lives ruined and careers done in, but whose ? Frank quit, kind of (she wrote stuff afterward), Quinn is making good cash, Sarkeesian likewise, Wu is now famous and seems to be away from home just to do press shows, heh. Funny enough I do feel better about myself but its probably not for the reasons you think I feel better about myself because I stand by my convictions and principles and say what I think is the right thing to say, I am not influenced by others or say things because I know the majority of people will like it because it suits a certain narrative

Not been following your kind throughout this ? Well I support most SJ views around gender equality, its only the radical feminists I don't think offer anything constructive. And I don't take everything Anita says as the gospel truth. But the SJ movement isn't some monolithic organisation where we all have the exact same views on all topic related to SJ, but we do share several perspectives But we are united on being opposed to Internet misogyny and sexism and from my side that's never going to change

Condemn and distance yourself from abuse and harassment as prominent figures from gamergate have done and stated repeatedly, yet SJF's have not even once. So advising millions of people on financial decisions that reach into the billions shouldn't be covered by any form of ethics or integrity. This is just ridiculous, instead you champion those who engage in corruption, nepotism and all manner of unethical behaviour, including insulting millions of their audience, and still think them fit for the purpose of serving the public? I'm utterly gobsmacked! I'm sorry Bruce but if those are your sentiments I see no reason in arguing with you, as that is utterly moronic, i'll join TN and ignore you from now on. No need to apologize Nonek, you must do what makes you happy. No need to engage in debate with me and anyone if you don't want to . That's the beauty of an open forum, you can chat to anyone you want to