BruceVC

He actually makes a compelling argument and raises some cogent points Did you read the whole article because he answers your question, see below where he explains the difference between killing a hooker and killing other people "What I personally find repulsive about this game is the pleasure it offers in portraying the savaging of a class of people who are already victims, in real life. This is where GTA 5 shows a lack of judgment. I take issue with the portrayal of sex workers being abused and murdered, because sex workers are already victims, and it's just not right to take your fun in abusing victims. I know a lot of people desperately want to believe that killing a prostitute in GTA 5 is the same as killing any other character, but it's really not. Unlike gangsters or cops or business dudes or hot dog vendors, prostitutes, as a class, are despised, marginalized and abused in real life, all the time. This means that GTA 5 takes its pleasure in humiliating and abusing victims of humiliation and abuse. In what kind of world is that not worthy of debate, above and beyond the ignorant cry of "if you don't like it, don't buy it"? " He is basically advocating for Rockstar to remove the killing of hookers as they are already victims and it makes sense to me after reading that article. Its not unreasonable

Okay so lets talk the possible future and what troubles you The Netherlands was complicit with the CIA so in the last 7 years since this type of interrogation was used what laws have changed in your country that is a direct result of what the Netherlands did with the CIA ? Here's something for you Bruce, if you weren't already aware: There are numerous laws in the U.S. that make what the CIA did illegal on many levels. Violations of multiple parts of the U.S. Constitution itself, violations of various laws specifically outlawing torture, violations of various laws limiting what the CIA is allowed to do, violation of various treaties the U.S. has signed (though I myself don't think we should have signed most if not all of them), violations of statutes requiring the proper informing of Congress/President/etc, and more. Enough to put the folks behind this behind bars for a long long time if they weren't above the law and we actually prosecuted (something that isn't going to happen anytime soon but should). Heck, some of what they've done is very arguably treason, which can carry the death penalty here. Even if one accepts for a moment (I do not, but for the of argument I will) that what the CIA did to the various people it detained was perfectly fine in a war time situation, the implications of allowing them to break all the laws they have and get away with it are huge. On an international scale, perhaps not so much (though I do think Rostere is generally right that things like this are used by some as an argument against republics/democracy/capitalism, because some in fact do), but internally the situation is ultimately dire for it's evidence the U.S. has fallen far from what it once was, has become something that most of the people who founded and ran this nation for the first 100+ years would have fought against, and ultimately all of this completely undermines law, order, justice, and the rights of the individual within the U.S.. Now, people who support what the CIA did of course generally do not see that dire on the horizon, or the evidence of it that's already manifested, or they don't care. These people are for the most part by and large pure evil, ignorant, or just plain stupid as they lack the ability to perceive cause and effect along with an appreciation of the basic sentiments of many of those around them. This is not a popular thing within the U.S. at all, and many of the people who have a problem with what the CIA has done and a number of other egregious assaults on what this nation was and is supposed to be (because this CIA torture thing is not the sole egregious assault, not even close sadly) are buying guns, ammo, and stockpiling resources, and that's no joke though I'm sure many here will brush off the various implications of that. It is not just your imagined tin foil hat wearing people, country bumkins, and doomsday prophets doing this. Many Average Joes, along with many of those in the military itself has been doing this for while now.... It's not going to be China, India, or anyone else that brings the day of reckoning home to the U.S as some this thread are thinking, it's going to be people within the U.S. itself. This is a very insightful post, you have created some doubt in my original perspective and that's rare I can at least empathize and understand more of why people are unhappy with the contents of the report

Okay so lets talk the possible future and what troubles you The Netherlands was complicit with the CIA so in the last 7 years since this type of interrogation was used what laws have changed in your country that is a direct result of what the Netherlands did with the CIA ?

That's exactly how I imagined your dogs would look, big and friendly

No Jaded I beg you don't get jaded about the future of Western Democracies, you know how sensitive you are and you will just unnecessarily upset yourself Please read what I am about to say. Of course in wartime there will be exceptions to what governments will normally do and what the average citizen thinks is acceptable. After 9/11 this happened but it was necessary and that is why certain governments agreed to house CIA black sites. Despite what many people on these forums will tell you the "War on Terror " is real but its more a war on Islamic fundamentalism and many countries have been victims of attacks by Islamic extremists. So when 9/11 occurred the level of concern about this type of terrorism was heightened to an unprecedented level..and it was perfectly justified due to the power and effectiveness of Al-Qaeda at the time The people who were subjected to this type of "torture " were people Khaled sheikh Mohammed, you know who he was right? One of the primary architects of 9/11, a man who personally planned and celebrated the deaths of thousands. And you expect me to feel sorry for him because he had water splashed on his face. No he gets no pity from me , So now you understand why many countries agreed to help the CIA. It doesn't reflect on the country or the government, it was a wartime decision and these things happen and will continue to happen because they are necessary at times. It not like your government is going now start waterboarding its own citizens. So don't read too much into this program and the tacit support Europe gave it

Aaaahh...how can anyone not like cats when you see pictures like this

You know what you're really good at Bruce? Empty statements. Empty statements that don't mean a damned. "She made good points." "This is a good post, everyone should read it." "Very good points!" "I'm impressed!" You never seem to address anything specific. Ever. Perhaps if you realize this, you would realize why I have such a difficult time believing or putting any value into a word you say. Because quite frankly, you can fully remove all of your posts from a discussion and the only thing that changes is there's a lot less "excellent post!" comments. So having said that, if you don't mind I would like to see an ACTUAL comment and point made; I would like to know why it doesn't absolutely infuriate you to realize that many of the most significant anti-GG proponents take offense to sex-positive women, sex-positive characters and sex-positive ideals, when as we all just saw, we have been given an example of a woman who is just that and - quite frankly - we all seem to be more or less in agreement that she has been one of the best speakers involved in the discussion of GamerGate thusfar. It's infuriating to me because as I said, it presents a message of "this is a person of extreme value, but let's discredit them ENTIRELY because cleavage." The very same philosophy is being provided to video games. Maybe you think video games are harmless and don't care if something like GTA V disappears off shelves because of this attitude....but what happens when it results in a speaker not being taken seriously, or not being heard out? That's just one of the reasons I support GG, and yet here you stand with an anti-GG stance acknowledging this brilliant woman, and yet you still stand in support of a side that would like her to shutup and put a shirt on, and would like any real women or games with sex-positive female characters to kindly go away or keep quiet. Why? We are clearly holding back our potential in game creation and our potential in meaningful discussion by doing so, so why do you turn a blind eye to it? Well the anti-GG side isn't some monolithic group that is united on all it views. So you would have people who would dismiss someone like Mercedes automatically and that's wrong but that's not justification to now distance myself from the criticism levelled towards GG. But I will say that GG really seems to evolving to a more acceptable social movement and that is good news Also I don't care if she has nice cleavage, I care about what she has to say when it comes to these types of debates . I also don't judge people on how they chose to earn money and that includes hookers, stripper and any other possibly morally questionable profession. I believe you shouldn't judge anyone until you have walked in there shoes.

The difference is GG is more of a political consideration than a moral one I imagine for an group like Able gamers, don't get me wrong its silly to refuse money from a group or people associated with GG. But this just highlights how polarizing it has become.

Oh god....brace yourselves everyone, I'm about to go off again. You know what is bitterly, BITTERLY ironic here Bruce? The very reason Mercedes acknowledged me and we had a brief chat (which ended in her welcoming me to message her on twitter, which I damned well might make a twitter account for), you know why it was...? Well you can hunt the Youtube comments on that vid yourself and just Cntrl + F and search for "Longknife," or if you're too lazy for that, I'll tell you: It's because I commented on how tragic I found it that she's so wonderfully capable, intelligent, charitable and charming, and yet I fear a large portion of the community will not bother to give her the time of day and listen to her because she's a porn star with her boobs out. I had never heard of Mercedes before this event, and I was pleasantly surprised to see the exact kind of person I love to hang out with and try to surround myself with. And sure enough she actually replied to me, as if there was some level of understanding when I expressed that concern. I also commented on my own personal theory that the very people who would argue a woman with her boobs out cannot be taken seriously are probably the very people who will NOT take her seriously, because I sure as hell "enjoy the view" and yet I enjoy her insights and her take on things even more. I might get in touch with her not out of some perverse desire to be like "OMG YEAH I CHATTING WITH A HOTTIE MAYBE I'LL SEE HER BOOBS" (which wtf I could google for), but because I'm genuinely interested in chatting with her, if she's open to it. Just because I like a woman who sexualizes herself does not mean I cannot appreciate other aspects of her, but this seems to be a part of the SJW argument (at least in regards to what we've heard from Polygon or Anita or the like) that sexualizing women is a problem. It dismisses sex-positive women as a problem and as something that sets women back, so I suspect those very same people would not give Mercedes the time of day or bother to hear her out. And here you are dismissing the interview, not acknowledging it or commenting on it, because she's a porn star and you "already watch enough porn." You wanna talk sexist? That statement was sexist. You basically just dismissed her interview as just an extension of porn and that it would add nothing to the debate or discussion or to the reasons you come here. And I can hear it now: "Gee Longknife I was just joking!" Yeah, the very same way you're not convinced Volourn isn't homophobic? I'm not convinced that's nothing more than an excuse, and that you don't WANT to watch the video, because the video displays THE most elegant speaker on the matter we've seen thusfar, and she just so happens to be a pro-GG Porn star with an Engineering degree who experienced absolutely zero sexism in her work with the sciences (amidst the community responsible for Shirtgate) and recently had her own charitable work denied because of her GG stance. But no, she has her boobs out, so what could she possibly add...? Please get off your soapbox for a second, I was just joking. I have just watched the video now and its excellent She is articulate, interesting, intelligent, attractive and she is into porn ...she is my ideal girlfriend actually I also like how committed she is to helping disabled gamers I find it problematic that so many charities refuse donations from porn stars. It must be disheartening to want to help organisations but they refuse your generosity because of a moral issue with your work...its like your money isn't good enough She raises some valid criticisms about the behaviour of pro and anti-GG people The one thing you guys won't like to hear though is her donation to Able gamers was refused because of her association to GG and her being an outspoken supporter, they wanted to remain GG neutral. So you could say that GG was responsible for the Able gamers not accepting her donation But once again I'm very impressed with her overall message and the way she makes her points

Okay I'll watch it

Okay its good to see you dismiss the view that you are homophobic, I'm not completely convinced because you seem to bring up the inclusivity part of Bioware's strategy fairly regularly as if its a big part of there game design when in fact you hardly notice it when playing there games unless you partake in it Also I haven't watched that porn star video because I watch enough porn as it is and I like to do other things when I visit these forums...unless you are referring to other videos?

I think I heard you slurping and moaning something like "braaaains!" If Volourn was a zombie he'd be like, "Why are these people not giving me their brains? It's nazi like and EVIL!" And BruceVC would go on a crusade against those oppressing masses that persecute and discriminate the poor zombie. You right to a certain degree. Us SJW try to not discriminate against any group but defending the rights of zombies might be a bit hard to justify

It sounds like Bioware's decision to be inclusive does actually bother you despite what you claim, remember Volo gay people are just like you and me..there is nothing to be scared or worried about. And yes Bioware has become an important player in the gaming space around inclusivity and are recognised as such by most. I respect them immensely for what they have done around appealing to the whole fanbase

The intelligence agency that takes its place would be just as bad - well, unless you think a power like the US has no need of a foreign-targeted intelligence agency I don't think we do. We were better off before the CIA. The CIA is an extremely important and relevant organ of what keeps the USA safe Yes they have made some questionable decisions in the past but that doesn't negate all the good work they have done and will continue to be expected to do, for example it was all there hard work that lead eventually to the capture and killing of Bin Laden We live in a world where warfare is not always conducted in the conventional sense, the USA has many enemies that operate in a more surreptitious way and the CIA plays its part in countering this As for the report, I see this as more of an embarrassment to the USA allies that allowed the CIA to operate these black sites within there countries. But we already knew there was advanced interrogation that had happened. I feel it was justified but not always effective. I really wouldn't lose any sleep about it, its in the past and current US government has distanced itself from these types of practices so I don' t think people should be too worried about it

"Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun." - Mao Zedong A lot of people fail to realize just what this means... Vals can you respond to my question so you don't keep making accusations against me " do you think Al-Qaeda committed 9/11" ? Ha! All in good time. I've had more important things to do, but worry not, I shall respond to your insincere question. Might be another day or three though before I have time to compose a proper response. Please do, I'm interested in hearing your response. I am fairly confident that you believe Al-Qaeda didn't plan and commit 9/11 but I may be wrong

This is very true but the more important point is that that we don't want a world without the USA and its Western ideology Imagine living like the Chinese or following the doctrines of Russia or the Middle East....it would be depressing

Good point, you win

Malc don't you think they should make it mandatory for everyone who doesn't drink that they have to work on the 1st after NY because you guys wouldn't be nursing a hangover ? New Year's Day is a day off here, I assume for that reason. Yes but why do you need a day off if you didn't go out the night before, you could be at work and be productive ?

Well, it's extremely commercialized. It's all about spending money and consuming, buying stuff for people because you are supposed to, because it's a tradition. It has a "false" feel to it for me. And I don't like my family particularly much, they never stay off the booze when they are together. Listening to them rant about how the muslims are invading, getting welfare and stealing our jobs while talking about how to best cheat their way around taxes and such will get me in a furious mood that I will have to bottle up. Then come New Years Eve and if I go drinking... I'm also against religion and I don't like being reminded about it time and again. There are upsides though, Top Gear christmas specials are fun, some of the seasonal food is awesome; Glögg and vörtbröd for instance. I don't know if you meant it to be but that was one of the funniest posts I've read in ages You undoubtedly get the much coveted " BruceVC funniest post of the week " award

And my question to you is who you'd rather have at the apex of the legal pyramid. A career liar? A sociopath who wants to kill people who wear glasses for asking too many questions? I, sir, am an ardent Royalist. Not sure if you guys are really Royalists but I'm going to be honest. As an outsider who visits the UK, and can see how much the Royal family does for the UK generally on numerous levels, it always amazes me that there are people who live in the UK yet who don't appreciate the Royal family or treats them with disdain

Malc don't you think they should make it mandatory for everyone who doesn't drink that they have to work on the 1st after NY because you guys wouldn't be nursing a hangover ?

If you don't mind me asking why do you hate Xmas?

The end of the year draws near and Xmas and NY beckons Wow its been an interesting and tumultuous year, for me much more good than bad. I'm on leave from the 19/12 I love Xmas, I get to see members of my family who don't live in the same city as me and I go on extended leave which is obviously always a good thing So what are your plans for these grand events ? I will be at our family beach cottage for Xmas, its literally 10 meters to the beach and is on a private beach where there are only about 30 other cottages so its very picturesque and unspoilt. We go snorkling and hiking and of course eat loads of food on Xmas day For NY I'm going to Psy Trance festival called Revolution. Its going to be epic and hedonistic

Yes, very similar. That's what it reminds me of