BruceVC

Please tell me more what would happen in my own country, because i obviously don't know anything about it. Before you continue please understand Drowsy is Serbian and is much more critical of Muslims than most people as Serbia has had its own chaotic and badly handled experiences with Muslims So you can't expect him to really support Muslim refugees or support the idea of Muslims being militant in parts of the world as to be fair to Serbia historically they have been treated quite badly by Muslim powers, like the Ottomans so he just sees the negative

and this is the view people in EU should have as well. Help them THERE, not keep them flowing into own countries. I was wondering if anyone would comment on this The reality is the EU and the West has a very different view on what is considered acceptable conduct around human rights...what Malaysia did would be considered by many Europeans probably illegal and a flagrant violation of human rights Now yes sometimes the West and the EU becomes a a victim of its own attempt to enforce its own rules....the rules become more important than the social impact to its own citizens. But this is more the occasional decision than the norm And I think we should be proud of the way places like the EU believe in certain values

And what you're talking about has nothing to do with Islam but Chechnya, and the fact that it's ruled pretty much by a bunch of bandits, by people who faught against Russia. But sure, f it. Let's oversimplify everything and blame Islam for the incredibly complex issues happening around the world right now. That will surely solve every problem. Yeah no offense Sakai but I didn't want to say this earlier because I didnt want you to think I was being critical about Russia but Russia has a very bad global view of how you treat Muslims and yes its because of Chechnya and places like Dagestan But I understand that Russia has a very different and militant history with Muslims and countries like Russia have decided that they won't be pressured into just accepting refugees from places like Pakistan Now I don't agree with this but I do see the Russian point...maybe its actually the way the EU should behave and just be much harder about refugees and what they can expect from immigrating? The West sees this differently and believes to trying to absorb these people, I guess only time will tell

Lol. No, it's just that i don't equate people who practice Islam with "islamists". http://pressa.today/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/Miting_musulman_v_Moskve_25_janvarja.jpg This is what happenes every year in Moscow, and yet somehow the city is still standing. Sakai I agree with why you are asking Meshugger this...its valid your point but you are misunderstanding something that Meshugger is actually experiencing as a European but he isn't explaining to you So firstly these refugees are not just from Syria, we have Afghans, Pakistanis and I am embarrassed to admit this but 5-6 African countries also have a steady stream of Africans who leave Africa and look for a better life in Europe When a country like Russia or South Africa says " we also have immigrants who come here " its not the same as the Europeans actually integrate these people into there societies meaning they will pay for housing, social grants and try very hard to provide jobs...but these immigrants become not only a real cost but a real social responsibility But for example we do nothing in South Africa to integrate the millions of economic migrants who arrive...they find there own housing and have to find there own jobs. We only care if they have a work permit, so we think we have a problem with migrants yet the reality is we are not doing anything for them. I'm sure in Russia its the same, do you guys actually spend real government time and resources trying to make sure " Chechen's who arrive in Russia feel welcome " ? So my point will take us back to the EU, why should we expect the citizens of the various EU countries to be happy to take in people from African countries like Sudan or Somalia when the African Union itself doesn't care if these people leave? This is a failure of the African Union to not take care of its own citizens. And the same logic applies to the refugees from the Middle East. Why aren't the countries like Saudi Arabia or UAE taking in fellow Muslims ....in fact none of the Sunni\Gulf countries are prepared to take in ONE Syrian....but we expect the average EU citizen to just be fine with this And then finally you do have a risk where some of these refugees may arrive in a place like Finland but not be able to find work so without a job they would never truly integrate . So then they will just end up living in these housing estates ...probably blaming Finland a little but also being happy to live off social grants because the reality at home is much worse. And you can understand how the thought of thousands of people just living off social grants and never really contributing towards the economy is also an annoying concern. That to me is the real reason for this push back from Europeans and its understandable

Yes you right I know very little about Malaysian culture but I have traveled and worked extensively in the Middle East and I am confident that I could travel to Malaysia and not offend anyone and be able to work there Also you mustn't think that just because your average Westerner doesn't know much about Malaysia its because they assume its some kind of backward, extremist place where groups like ISIS are influential . You see for us as Westerners unless there is a logical reason to study the culture of a particular country there wouldn't be a point ....so its not personal. Its just that we tend to focus on countries that you may have direct trade with or an economic connection or a real relationship with. So what I'm really saying its not just a country like Malaysia that your average Westerner knows nothing about, this is true to many African or South American countries unless you interact with them. But I can understand why you may want to know more about Westerner culture...I think its great because I think some people in the Muslim world have certain negative views of the West and we need to change this

Nice post Cant But maybe you should tell her you support the Republicans ....wait don't, ignore that please...lets not chase her away

Your media always makes other countries look bad, your movies too...according to your movies, Japanese love to cut off people head and going kamikaze, then they killed themselves in harakiri...Russian always big grumpy men talking simple broken English and dumb looking...Chinese are weird kinky people and militaristic communists...Vietnams are all bad and savages...Germans always have serious cold face and love to rant...Middle Easterners are dirty bearded angry looking people...and on and on and on...everyone are bad except you Why would anyone want to listen to you and following your set of morality and laws? Iihave a country, I have my people, my culture, my religion, this is my land, the business of the people of my land is our business...so what is your problem with my land? Do i complaint about your land and your business? Gromnir please don't respond to this No Qistina that is a very old way of how International Western media operates. Nowadays they present a much more accurate and less generalized view of other cultures Also its a global world that is interconnected so its very easy to research other cultures and not make assumptions like this Also I don't mean to get involved in your and Gromnirs debate but you guys are both misunderstanding each other, Gromnir actually comes from a minority group in the USA. He is a Native American and he has personally been victim to real discrimination and bigotry from fellow Americans....so I can promise you he is not someone who thinks the West is perfect. He is probably more aware of certain issues in Western countries that most of us have never encountered

Do you mean you were retrenched ? I'm not trying to sound unsympathetic but from what you have shared about your company you never seemed to really either like your job or how the company was structured or run So I would see this as golden opportunity for you to find something that you enjoy and feel committed to I love my job and believe in my company..I don't think I could work for a corporation if I didn't feel both these things ?

Sorry, but you are the same hypocryte as you are accusing them... Badmouthing them about not respecting the western culture and meanwhile not respecting the culture which is their own... is not hypocrisy. am not asking for western culture to be respected. am not much o' a fan o' western culture. Gromnir is in favor o' personal liberty. where culture intrudes on basic fundamental rights, we believes culture should give way. that is what the Bill o' Rights is all 'bout. personal freedoms is very frequent in conflict with cultural norms. regardless, that weren't the issue were it? qistina were boasting 'bout freedoms in malaysia w/o seeming to realize just how oppressive malaysia can be insofar as religion, sexual orientation and a host o' other basic freedoms that westerners take for granted. HA! Good Fun! Its funny that you don't think Western culture needs to be respected, you normally use logic in your views but this seems to be an incongruous point ? What is wrong with saying that the West has systems of government that have consistently been proven to offer there citizens the best quality of life ? Yes the West has made mistakes, yes the West has issues but that doesn't mean that the Western system of governance doesn't work. The facts speak for themselves http://uk.businessinsider.com/legatum-institute-prosperity-index-top-countries-2015-10 And I'm not suggesting its because the West is the best because white people are running the West or the West is intellectually superior Any country can implement what Western countries do but there need to be four key fundamentals that are common in all Western countries but to ensure real economic transformation and to achieve reasonable happiness of the average citizen you need to follow all four of these as much as possible ( I am just summarizing these points in the interests of brevity ) Effective governments that manage the government institutions properly Governments that are elected by the people and are accountable to the people Governments must respect the rule of law in there countries The economy needs to be driven primarily by the free market What I often see in the African context is governments that follow maybe two or three of these points but fail in others and then wonder why they dont achieve, for example, a stronger economy So the success of the West is not because of Imperialism, Colonialism or because " we are white males " ....no its all about how the countries are run and governed and this would naturally lead to an economic and positive social transformation

Look to be fair you can't judge these types of perceived strange or unreasonable decisions by countries like Malaysia ...I understand they seem strange but these are countries are ruled by religious doctrine and modern laws Its fine, we don't have to understand or agree with them but its there decision. As long as they don't export terrorism or have tens of thousands of immigrants wanting to get to Europe its not a big deal Just reminded myself that in Singapore you get caned for throwing chewing gum on the street. I was there, and loved that there was nowhere any garbage lying around. I seriously wish, that something like that, would be enforced in my country and in many EU countries, which I've visited as well... Oh I want to add that I have no issue with a country following what I would consider are religious conservative laws or just unreasonable strict laws as long as the citizens of those countries don't live in poverty or just not part of the economic system due to lack of good governance Because I believe in regime change or at least political pressure put on countries if they are dictatorships...I'm not saying the West needs to go to war with every non-Democrat system out there but we don't need to accept it unless there is some strategic or political consideration like China or Saudi Arabia Now I know many of you guys don't get this and you believe that the West shouldn't interfere in other countries affairs but there is definitely a real case for this if done in the right way

Oh yeah, let's turn the whole west into the incarnation of 1984. I think Jefferson would be proud now... Snowden is a traitor and betrayed his country.... and he did reveal how the NSA have the ability to monitor most social media so now maybe certain extremist groups may not use Facebook or Twitter as a way to communicate but I imagine this would have happened eventually so I don't think we can blame him for this ?

I would consider Malaysia a good example of a Muslim country that is perfectly functional.....didn't you have issues with presidential corruption? Now please understand I don't mean to criticize your constitution but it seems strange to insist that people must say they are religious ? What if you not, why would that mean you cant contribute meaningfully towards Malaysian society so what I'm asking is how is being religious something that benefits your economy or political stability Also you say that Science is important but what when Science and Religion clash , who wins ? We don't have president, but we follow British style of democracy, parliament with royals at the head. Which countries don't have corrupt politicians? You must have a religion to become Malaysian. It doesn't matter what religion, but you must believe in God. It is because when you say you belong to a religion you are bound to that religion morality, culture and way of life, which means you are not deuchbags, yes atheists are deuchbags. If you are Christian, i know you are bound to Christian morality, so it is easier to make business with, i mean i know where you stand. You don't have to be religious, but if there are problems with you we simply refer you to your priests and asking their opinions. If you are an atheist it will be a problem. Malaysia a multicultural country, Malays are only 50% now and Muslims 60%. I love Science vs religion debate, but now i just don't have the mood. Okay thanks for explaining, I am not trying to attack your culture or country as I do consider Malaysia a success story but I must say the whole reasoning behind the point " you must be religious as we believe religious people are easier to understand and manage " is very strange because it makes no sense I am an atheist and my commitment to my country and our success has nothing to do with religion but is based on a belief I love my country and want it to succeed so for example I pay my taxes But anyway we can agree to disagree...if this works for you guys then thats a good thing

I fail to see how this is surprising at all. Pretty much everyone around the world is condemning the attack. Hezbollah is in government together with Lebanese Christian parties, Lebanon has good relations with France... They are probably as disgusted as everyone else, and with literally no reason to not condemn the attack. Hezballah disgusted by terrorism, that's a good one. well, it's easy to see why hezbollah would be disgusted by terrorists who recently targeted hezbollah in southern lebanon. in fact, pretty much any attack on a terrorist group is decried as state-sponsored terrorism perpetrated by ________________. fill in blank with great britain (particularly if we are speaking o' the ira as victims) or israel or the USA or your choice o' state. terrorism is often presented as a matter o' perspective. HA! Good Fun! Yes Gromnir makes some good points but there is also another consideration. The ME is a complicated place due to the political and religious alliances, historical ties and general different views that some countries have on important topics ....like this Oil Price war that Saudi is insisting on We need to realize that certain groups and ideological blocks in the ME we need to see them as operating in a grey world of judgement ...they shouldn't really be judged on strict Western views. For example a few years ago I believed Iran under there older regime was the greatest threat to the region...now they have become an ally of the West in an interesting and unexpected wat Hezbollah like Syria are sustained by Iran and for the Iranians by far the greatest threat to there influence is now ISIS, they are seriously impacting two key Iranian allies in both Syria and Iraq And of course Hezbollah realizes this and they do understand how to manage public perception so when they say " jihadist " threat they mean ISIS which the whole region is opposed to and in this case they right...ISIS is the current and most pressing enemy

Look to be fair you can't judge these types of perceived strange or unreasonable decisions by countries like Malaysia ...I understand they seem strange but these are countries are ruled by religious doctrine and modern laws Its fine, we don't have to understand or agree with them but its there decision. As long as they don't export terrorism or have tens of thousands of immigrants wanting to get to Europe its not a big deal

The Maldives, where the level of persecution against the Christian minority is rated1 "Extreme" - at rank #11 among all countries of the world, before Saudi Arabia? As for Malaysia, it ranks "only" #37 on that watchlist, but my own visit there a few years ago gave me the impression of a repressive society where Islam is not just the majority religion of the population, but de-facto the state religion - being unapologetically and unfairly backed by government bureaucracy, law enforcement, and legal system. Christian churches seemed to be tolerated as long as they sticked to themselves, but lived in fear of random police raids against their congregations for allegations like "subverting Islam" or "encouraging apostacy from Islam". Atheist/agnostic groups consisting of ethnic Malays (rather than foreigners) did not seem to be present at all in the public sphere, though likely existed in secret. Foreigners seemed to have more leeway, but ethnic Malays from Muslim families seemed to have little choice but to officially stay "Muslim", because apostasy meant having to live with severe discrimination and acts of retaliation from any neighbors, employers, public servants, police officers, judges, etc. they'd come in contact with for the rest of their lives. Some of the conversations with people there, even casual ones, left me with newfound appreciation for the level of religious freedom and freedom of speech that exists in the West. Of course it's possible that the people I met and information I absorbed, was unrepresentative or I misinterpreted it etc., and of course my visit to the country lasted only three weeks. But hey, you said we should base our opinion of the tolerance of Muslim societies on our own visits rather than Fox News, so here you go... -------- 1) By Open Doors, the most well-known NGO for cataloging global religious persecution of Christians. Themselves a Christian organization, but I consider it reliable. We have laws, your country also have laws, what's the difference? You claim Christians live in fear under our rule, do Muslims live hapily in your place? Christians in my country didn't look as terrorists hiding bombs in their bag...but i know in the west someone like me could be assaulted by the police just because "look lke a terrorist", people in your country will look at Muslims in eerie way...my country allow Christians, Hindus and whatever to freely practice their religion and laws, does your country allow Muslims doing the same? The church that being raid is because they against the law, they publish their new Malay version of Bible to convert Muslims into Christianity. That's why they got raid by the police. Your country will do the same if any mosques in your country are against your country law isn't it? Atheism is not acceptable in my country, all Malaysians must have religion, "Believe in God" is the first principle to become a Malaysian. There are 5 of them WHEREAS OUR COUNTRY, MALAYSIA nurtures the ambitions of: achieving a more perfect unity amongst the whole of her society; preserving a democratic way of life; creating a just society where the prosperity of the country can be enjoyed together in a fair and equitable manner; guaranteeing a liberal approach towards her rich and varied cultural traditions; and building a progressive society that will make use of science and modern technology. NOW THEREFORE, WE, the people of Malaysia, pledge to concentrate the whole of our energy and efforts to achieve these ambitions based on the following principles: BELIEF IN GOD LOYALTY TO KING AND COUNTRY SUPREMACY OF THE CONSTITUTION RULES OF LAW COURTESY AND MORALITY This is our principle as Malaysians. I would consider Malaysia a good example of a Muslim country that is perfectly functional.....didn't you have issues with presidential corruption? Now please understand I don't mean to criticize your constitution but it seems strange to insist that people must say they are religious ? What if you not, why would that mean you cant contribute meaningfully towards Malaysian society so what I'm asking is how is being religious something that benefits your economy or political stability Also you say that Science is important but what when Science and Religion clash , who wins ?

Morgan has a point though...there are many people from the Muslim community who dont consider ISIS Muslim because of the atrocities they committed. I'm not sure why he feels he has to say that...I assume those of us who want to have this discussion in a reasonable way don't now assume 2 Billion Muslims are like ISIS WOD...I can understand why some of you Republicans or supporters of the NRA dont like Morgan. But he meant well...he was just trying to make the USA a safer place...but you can't lecture Americans on issues like the Right to Bear Arms if you aren't an actual citizen He misunderstood this even though I supported what he was trying to achieve

You dont have to like Gay Pride but in the EU you cant discriminate against gay people because homophobia is illegal and this is exactly how many people want it, I consider the tolerant rules and way the EU believes in human rights to be strength of the EU. And you may have noticed that the EU is the place everyone wants to immigrate to....so they must be doing something right ?

Well you right about one thing, if you have an issue with something like Gay Pride parades in a place like the EU then its best Serbia stays out the EU until its views become more tolerant ...but I don't believe most of Serbia would state something in public like that

Yes my friend, I am well aware of this type of criticism towards Western institutions like the EU ....but you are wrong, yes this current attempt to integrate the Syrians and other refugess is misplaced but these are just lessons the EU has to learn. The EU will endure but I have no issue with kicking member country's out that don't follow the economic and political rules Also its probably not such a good idea to quote Putin considering the fact its exactly some of his policies and geo-political choices that have created the situation where Russia is in a recession

Agreed, also generally when celebrities discuss politics they are normally on the side of more equality and are concerned with human rights. So things like gay rights are understandably important to them But I don't generally look at any celebrities for guidance around prudent political insight

http://www.vogue.com/13368193/jennifer-lawrence-december-2015-cover-hunger-games Its funny but there isn't much political discussion in this interview? Maybe two paragraphs or so and I find her general criticism of the Republicans to be reasonable....so I'm not sure what the big deal is?

Sorry to hear that, my thoughts are with you

The Sad Puppies were a group that believed that the Hugo awards had become more about rewarding the promotion of liberal beliefs rather than good sci-fi, as they believed in past years awards had gone to authors because they were the only female or PoC nominee, or the work had been substandard but championed liberal views, and conservative authors or more enjoyable but less intellectual works were being punished for not believing in "liberal" causes. They came out with a list of recommended nominees for the Hugos for their supporters to nominate so they would at least be a choice on the ballot. The Rabid Puppies were the "SJWs destroy everything they touch and we'll prove it" group that tried to get similar people nominated and guaranteed that the SJWs would just refuse to give out any awards rather than give any out to white conservatives. Almost all the nominees came from the Sad or Rabid puppy slates. The "SJW"s then went on a recruitment drive and signed up like double the usual voters and most awards were voted "no award" except for the like 2 or 3 categories that weren't all puppy nominees. Vox Day's supporters saw it as proof that he was right, the SJWs saw it as a victory for correct thinking. It was another GamerGate type thing where moderates on both sides were drowned out and any point either side had was lost in the quest for victory, and anyone not personally invested didn't really give a crap. Nice summary and I would say its accurate Wasn't George R R Martin opposed to groups like Sad Puppies?

" son seems to hate financial security/himself" That really made me laugh.,.well it should be seen as a positive because now there is NO doubt he is yours

I don't know dude but that to me is more your body saying " why would you put yourself through this type of physical labour "...this is your body being prudent when your mind is being unreasonable Pay someone to do it seriously. I could never conceive of actually doing that much physical work..I'm sure it would be illegal in South Africa