BruceVC

So would you feel your country would accept say 20,000 Turkish refugees ?

How do you guys feel about Turks from a historical East European perspective ?

Sure, I will

This is relevant and impacts most of us @ TN Just to be clear why was the last thread closed? We were discussing crime in the EU and the impact the refugees have on this

Well, anyone with a life threatening illness is deserving of sympathy even if they are somewhat responsible for what happened. It's pretty crass of her to not realize that. I'm not sure what apartheid has to do with it though. That was a s----y thing to be sure but I don't see the connection with AIDS and it is over now. Remember this one truth Bruce, as----es are born that way and can't help it. Don't bother getting mad ay them, just avoid them. Yeah...the thing is those types of comments I just can't leave. How can she be so completely unsympathetic and dismissive about a virus that can impact all people ....it was so utterly selfish and ignorant

Yes I was looking at the last column

I am not trying to come across as boastful but my initial assessment was right about crime being slightly higher in East European countries

Guys I want to tell you something about just how dysfunctional some white South Africans .....despite the fact its 21 years since Apartheid ended Since yesterday was World Aids Day and in South Africa we have 6 million people on AV drugs as they have HIV this is a day where we discuss HIV and we look at the stigma in society. Anyway on this one talk show they had this young black guy, 24, who had HIV and was discussing how he caught it, he was promiscuous, and what he deals with in society and how there is discrimination in some areas So this white women phones and says " does your guest expect me to feel sorry for him " She was 58 and after living through Apartheid she still somehow feels that the only responsible thing to say is to phone in and basically try to humiliate a young black person who has HIV....like 6 million other people I was so angry, I phoned in and really was critical about her

WOD if you could chose to kick-out any states from the USA who would they be? The blue states in the map above, but mostly California and New York, that's where all the evil comes from. http://www.newgeography.com/content/005110-jerry-brown-s-insufferable-green-piety "These fans miss a big part of the reality. Outsiders think of California as a prosperous place that mints billionaires, but overall the state’s economic recovery has done little for many, if not most, state residents. Even with the boom in Silicon Valley, roughly one in three Californians live check to check, the state has higher rate of poverty than Mississippi, as well as one-third of the nation’s welfare recipients. Among the emerging Latino majority, a prime Brown constituency, the state’s cost-adjusted poverty rate is more than 33 percent, compared to just 22.7 percent in Texas, a state often derided as unenlightened and cruel." "Of course, there’s a long history of such bifurcated society, where people tend to stay in their class and the poor depend largely on handouts from their spiritual “betters.” It’s called feudalism." So may be KP was right about feudalism. Shame WOD ....but won't you miss the erudite and liberal views of your Californian brethren Funny enough its very healthy and expected to have a level of rivalry between states, you are made stronger by your differences

But Hurlshot you have new members like me ....isn't that better ?

I wish you would stop ignoring me, I often disagree with you ....but its not personal. I enjoy having debates with you But I would like you to ruminate on where you live and how fortunate you are ....yet you question why I say the West offers the best quality of life to its citizens

Your idea of Western Culture is a state with neoliberal ideals? Bruce's definition of the fantastic characteristics of western civilisation is, well, what Bruce himself believes (or purports to believe to get responses). Utterly unsurprising. Though I suspect in this case he'd be far from alone in that. Yes Zora, the West offers its citizens the best quality of life and has the happiest citizens in the world But these aren't just my words, they are fact http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/03/20/international-happiness-day-happiest-countries/25073055/ http://edition.cnn.com/2015/04/23/travel/feat-world-happiest-countries-2015/index.html http://themysteriousworld.com/10-happiest-countries-in-the-world/ http://247wallst.com/special-report/2014/05/05/the-happiest-countries-in-the-world-5/2/ But you know whats really ironic. You always provide us with " informed and reasonable " information about how corrupt, inconsistent and hypocritical the West is ....yet you live in a first world Western country. You will say " Russia needs to invade Turkey " behind the luxury of your first world Western comfort Don't you feel like a hypocrite?

I knew you would say this, its classic view from someone who suffers from " white guilt " ..

Now this is an interesting post, I am not sure if its true but it does raise some debatable points

Dark I can guarantee you Rostere is correct, thats why I said in an earlier debate " I don't believe the Swedish migration system is a failure" This is good news by the way, it means there is less reason to question the sustainability of the EU...end of the day surly we all want the EU to survive and prosper ? On what basis do you guarantee that? If you have a set of hard data that proves this, please share it with me. I shared with you and compared statistics in regards to crimes and also how the life looked in Switzerland in 80s Rostere will present evidence if he wants ..but he is very bright and reasonable so I do believe him But its not up to me to present evidence about Sweden

Dark I can guarantee you Rostere is correct, thats why I said in an earlier debate " I don't believe the Swedish migration system is a failure" This is good news by the way, it means there is less reason to question the sustainability of the EU...end of the day surly we all want the EU to survive and prosper ?

Well, not necessarily the ethnicity, though, he didn't make much mention of it. Saying all Americans are dumb or that the British are bunch of drunkards isn't racist, it's being prejudiced against a large group, for example. If he had said he assumes the rape statistics would be high as those rascally Magyars like a bit of raping now and then, that would be racist. But that's what's implied. Hungary doesn't have any significant minorities (Roma?), so other than "Magyars liking a bit of raping now and then", why would anyone assume such a thing? It's not "hai guise here's Hungary rape stats, they pretty high", or "hai guise what are Hungary rape stats?". It's just BVC assuming random stupid **** about an Eastern Europe (read: non-Western) country. Unlike American or British, Hungarian is an ethnicity. Prejudice about a particular ethnicity is hard to write off as not racism. *braces for a YT rant from a random "not racist" guy with really bad taste in hairdos* Is anyone surprised? BVC is the pinnacle of "liberal" racism (more like racism applied liberally). Everyone non-western is a sad little untermenchen savage that should join the superior civilization, for their own good, you know. We are superior therefore you must accept us and if you don't you eventually will, because we will bomb you for your own good and democracy before you realize the error of your ways. And damn you for making us do it! And on and on it goes with fascinating, bot like persistence. I'll be honest Drowsy if what Sarex said is true about how belligerent all the ex-Yugoslavian countries still are then its best you don't join the EU....but I cant believe you guys refuse to move on and just can't achieve a meaningful peace with your neighbors? Its not that hard but you seem determined to follow the path of interminable conflict ...I don't understand the logic ? That was weak my friend, but enough to confirm everything I just said about you. This is what Sarex said .....how can you not see this a really bad indictment of the region ....thats why I don't believe its that bad "Croatia is getting military equipment (from the West (US I think)) that can be converted to a range where they can launch missiles at us (Serbia) and they are licking their lips about it. Apart from that they are constantly look for a way to trip us up. Albania is looking for any way it can to destabilize the region around it and annex Kosovo to it's borders. Macedonia is fighting a battle with it's own people because it's Muslim population has gotten so high it's influence can now cause a civil war and it's changing one puppet regime for another. Bosnia has Muslim terrorist training camps in it that are operating unchecked and the country it self is falling apart because the system that is in place is unable to do anything about that. Bulgaria is just falling apart economically, because the west won't help and they can't look to the east for fear of economic reprisal from said west. Hungary is pissed at us for letting immigrants through even though they would have probably condemned us as monsters with the rest of the world for not helping them otherwise. "

When I call people out on racist stuff they say, I rarely assume they did so maliciously. It doesn't make the statement less racist, though. Heh, well that's surprising. Yes but alum if the person had no intention of racism it should make the whole thing seem much less of rude? Thats what I want to achieve

Well, not necessarily the ethnicity, though, he didn't make much mention of it. Saying all Americans are dumb or that the British are bunch of drunkards isn't racist, it's being prejudiced against a large group, for example. If he had said he assumes the rape statistics would be high as those rascally Magyars like a bit of raping now and then, that would be racist. But that's what's implied. Hungary doesn't have any significant minorities (Roma?), so other than "Magyars liking a bit of raping now and then", why would anyone assume such a thing? It's not "hai guise here's Hungary rape stats, they pretty high", or "hai guise what are Hungary rape stats?". It's just BVC assuming random stupid **** about an Eastern Europe (read: non-Western) country. Unlike American or British, Hungarian is an ethnicity. Prejudice about a particular ethnicity is hard to write off as not racism. *braces for a YT rant from a random "not racist" guy with really bad taste in hairdos* Is anyone surprised? BVC is the pinnacle of "liberal" racism (more like racism applied liberally). Everyone non-western is a sad little untermenchen savage that should join the superior civilization, for their own good, you know. We are superior therefore you must accept us and if you don't you eventually will, because we will bomb you for your own good and democracy before you realize the error of your ways. And damn you for making us do it! And on and on it goes with fascinating, bot like persistence. I'll be honest Drowsy if what Sarex said is true about how belligerent all the ex-Yugoslavian countries still are then its best you don't join the EU....but I cant believe you guys refuse to move on and just can't achieve a meaningful peace with your neighbors? Its not that hard but you seem determined to follow the path of interminable conflict ...I don't understand the logic ?

Well, not necessarily the ethnicity, though, he didn't make much mention of it. Saying all Americans are dumb or that the British are bunch of drunkards isn't racist, it's being prejudiced against a large group, for example. If he had said he assumes the rape statistics would be high as those rascally Magyars like a bit of raping now and then, that would be racist. But that's what's implied. Hungary doesn't have any significant minorities (Roma?), so other than "Magyars liking a bit of raping now and then", why would anyone assume such a thing? It's not "hai guise here's Hungary rape stats, they pretty high", or "hai guise what are Hungary rape stats?". It's just BVC assuming random stupid **** about an Eastern Europe (read: non-Western) country. Unlike American or British, Hungarian is an ethnicity. Prejudice about a particular ethnicity is hard to write off as not racism. *braces for a YT rant from a random "not racist" guy with really bad taste in hairdos* You so clever 2133, how could anyone dispute such irrefutable logic You do realize I have already explained exactly why I said that and I apologized...I think alum understands why I said that But its always nice to get your views

Stop reading people's fantasies and wild speculations on the internet. That said: It is illegal in Sweden to keep records of ethnic heritage of people accused of or convicted of crimes. It is true that in some of the most segregated suburbs (there probably are three or so in Sweden) harassment of people with "improper" clothing could occur. Still, this is something which COULD happen, and the harassment would take the form of someone shouting something at you. I've walked with a tailcoat on through some of the "worst" suburbs of Stockholm without anything happening at all. Anyways, 99% of the things you read are probably outright lies, cherry-picking, or a mixture of both. That said, refugees have lately (talking the last year or so) become a huge short-term economic burden. The amount of money spent on juveniles coming to Sweden without their families is comparable to the collected expenditures of the entire state of Afghanistan, I've heard. For something you deem "fantasies and wild speculations" there are dozens of people passionately claiming this very thing that seemingly get nothing out of it. Are they all racists then? Look, as for Sweden being a country which easily gives out welfare with no counterdemands, I think most people would agree. Same as for refugees not being a short-term economic bonus, and the segregation and societal divides that has occured. But this stuff: "The right is very insistent that muslim immigration is directly responsible for a huge spike in rape cases in nordic (and other) countries, and that the police and media purposefully omit the ethnicity and religion of the perpetrators on a regular basis to protect the whole multi-culti fantasy. Additionally, the punishments are usually extremely lenient. I've also read reports from women that harassment of native women walking around (not covered up) in the streets by muslim arabs and blacks is a regular thing." Is frankly just Nazi-levels of hogwash. I don't have time to reply to every lie and exaggeration in that statement, nor to do a Freudian analysis of the people who seem pathologically obsessed with interracial rape. I don't care much for generalizing and labelling people "racists", I'd rather discuss every single issue separately. And frankly, a lot of what you hear is on this level: I'm surprised some people are so willingly circulating wildly racist blatant lies. Ros I am glad you are setting the record straight about Sweden...for some reason Sweden has become the paradigm of EU failure for some on these forums where "you have this utterly failed immigration policy that has destroyed your country "

What has the media been like ? I enjoy the international Media networks but sometimes there constant desire to justify and explain events gets tiresome If I were overly suspicious I would think they were pushing what a great thing it is to bring them, at least on CBC. Probably not as, showing how depserate they are, or silly human interest stories on a family as they make their way in or giving into people boastfully giving aid to them makes for feel-good TV. Helps feed Canadian narcissism, too I guess, heh. 25,000 is pretty small for Canada, I think Toronto alone could absorb that much and be okay. yeah I know what you mean...but interestingly enough this type of "over attention " to this type of social event is not about narcissism IMO Its about a sense of duty and responsibility that certain sectors of society in first world countries believe they need to support ...I think its unnecessary but its a positive thing, albeit annoying

Are you... trying to guilt trip me about this? No I am being sincere, it would be against most of my principles to make a sweeping negative statement about a whole country

What has the media been like ? I enjoy the international Media networks but sometimes there constant desire to justify and explain events gets tiresome