BruceVC

Yes I found that out later, I wonder if she goes around the USA saying things like " The demand for free education is only unrealistic because we continue to live within the mandates of capitalism,”

Do you understand how bizarre that argument is? A national museum does a major exhibition just because they happen to have a pin with a name on it. But they absolutely can not obtain any item of Thomas, or just put up a photo, and therefore have to skip over him entirely. lol WOD you know I'm very committed to the new South Africa and addressing the past But there is a small group of African Americans who honestly come to SA as special guests and say things which are just not true about the reality of the USA or they tell black South African things they should do or believe which just create social discord and confusion i know this sounds like I'm being unnecessarily critical but I promise you Im not, for example Angela Davis said in her speech " the only reason SA doesnt have free tertiary education is because the government looks at education in a Capitalist lens " ( how else should we see it....in a Communist lens )

Have you guys in the USA ever heard of a African American women called Angela Davis? She is famous in the civil rights movement...she came to SA as a guest recently and really added to our social issues with a misplaced speech she made http://ewn.co.za/2016/09/09/US-political-activist-Angela-Davis-delivers-17th-annual-Steve-Biko-Lecture

Swedes intolerable? You joking right ?

What defines a country really. Is it language or cultural differences because those aren't that great in Europe. I think narrowly local entities, counties, burrows, whatever you want to call them should have a large degree of self control. Beyond that you need a central authority to take care of common interests, education, policing, defence, healthcare and so on. Nations when they project self interest towards their competitors are harmful entities, they should be done away with. We should be thinking ahead, toward the subjugation of space and the enslavement of alien species. I would say your love of cheese must be a binding factor throughout the EU ?

Yes, this is the biggest social obstacle we need to overcome in the USA The ideal US outcome for less political unhappiness is a view where the majority of Americans understand that at times Federal involvement is necessary to achieve a more stable and fair society. Lets be honest how many states would have allowed gay marriage by now if it wasn't for the Supreme court ?

Yeah UN successful war on hunger created population boom in countries where illiteracy is over 50%. Good job (sorry I know its pretty negative view but its reality) Yes but the UN still does more good in the world than bad. if the UN didnt exist or was dissolved we would have much more global strife and insecurity throughout the world Are you talking about same UN where guy from SA is responsible for human rights? xD Listen, I agree that UN done nice things, it doesn't always mean they are good What guy from SA? Well the UN has a structural " issue" around the veto in UNSC but the veto swings both ways and there is real consensus at times where we see a positive outcome like the Iran sanctions

Yeah UN successful war on hunger created population boom in countries where illiteracy is over 50%. Good job (sorry I know its pretty negative view but its reality) Yes but the UN still does more good in the world than bad. if the UN didnt exist or was dissolved we would have much more global strife and insecurity throughout the world

To be honest because of the history of Apartheid South Africa isn't a good example of a functional parliamentary system as we are dealing with some historical challanges that tend to create certain negative political dynamics ...so I dont know whats best ?

You really believe that by some magic all employers across EU would start paying same salaries, there would be same level of social state without looking at economic power of those countries? Do you really think that it would not destroy economies of such countries? and of course I am not only talking about getting it on Germany level, but to support it, at same time German salaries to go down? There would be riots everywhere...No, I'm saying a unified Europe will solve the problems the euro created, and it will definitely give a boost to ALL its members. BTW yes the most Germans would help... We have good welfare, good free health care, good free education... Am I only one getting a laugh out of this? Through out history the German people conquered Europe one way or the other, but now suddenly they claim to not exist and that national borders are just an organizational problem, but effectively it would still result in Germania being created, even in a crypto-state. "Wir schaffen das!", indeed. Go to bed, Merkel, you're drunk. You really believe that by some magic all employers across EU would start paying same salaries, there would be same level of social state without looking at economic power of those countries? Do you really think that it would not destroy economies of such countries? and of course I am not only talking about getting it on Germany level, but to support it, at same time German salaries to go down? There would be riots everywhere...No, I'm saying a unified Europe will solve the problems the euro created, and it will definitely give a boost to ALL its members. BTW yes the most Germans would help... We have good welfare, good free health care, good free education... Am I only one getting a laugh out of this? Through out history the German people conquered Europe one way or the other, but now suddenly they claim to not exist and that national borders are just an organizational problem, but effectively it would still result in Germania being created, even in a crypto-state. "Wir schaffen das!", indeed. Go to bed, Merkel, you're drunk. Have you ever been to Germany? We learned from our mistakes (we finally did), and we were able to create a country with all the bad outcomes in mind, so we figured out ways how to avoid them the best way possible. And while the Germans were certainly awful people in the past, I think it's safe to say we managed to create a pretty good country. But do prove me wrong Ben as I mentioned please dont get offended by the comments about Germany from some members I have had this debate with various members since the necessary austerity was implemented by the EU troika on the PIGS countries In summary there is this unreasonable criticism towards Germany, people dont appreciate what Germany has done or its contribution towards the EU I work in the financial sector and many people are very aware of how important Germany is but our forum friends just see the negative :

I dont really understand the difference ? How would you describe them as in pros and cons Direct democracy is when the people themselves decide much more. For example they elect the president, and they may be more referendums. Pro: most democratic form con: the fate of the state lies in the hand of the people, which isn't necessarily the best thing (trump for example) Parlamentarian democracy: the people elect only the parties for parliament, the parliament elects the president and there are probably no referendums. Pro: the fate of the state lies in the hand of politicians put in place by the party, so no trump. Con: less democratic Okay got it, South Africa is a parliamentary Democracy

I dont really understand the difference ? How would you describe them as in pros and cons

When you say differences do you mean the current political rift in the USA?

I am a huge supporter of Germany and Merkel and how Germany after WW2 has been able to recreate its identity and become very significant again. And it did this not through military superiority but hard work and economic transformation. Lol, your German economic "miracle" is just using of Jewish Nazi gold.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11081786 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34358783 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663635/Revealed-How-Nazis-helped-German-companies-Bosch-Mercedes-Deutsche-Bank-VW-VERY-rich-using-slave-labor.html etc. Yep, proscriptions, slave labor and plundering of conquered lands is so profitable. Oby those links are history, they are irrelevant to what Germany is nowadays and all the positive it does This appears to be something you Russians dont understand, your past doesn't define you and I would encourage you to think more about real challenges in the year 2016 and stop worrying about the past This is one of the main reasons your economy is such a mess, misplaced attempts to " restore the great Russian bear " History lol. These money\funds is not history. Foundation of German economical "miracle" is Nazi warcrimes, without they no modern Germany/EU even exist (for example almost all modern German roads has been build by slaves during Hitler's time ). Don't make mistake - i don't criticise Germans for it - wars is extremely profitable - is just objective reality. Actually Russia do want make some such economically reasoned wars also - even war against such beggar-country as Ukraine deliver so much profit for us (cheap Ukrainian migrants working for food in Siberia, land grab, population grab + 2M, oil resources grab, plants/factories grab ). Just imagine how profitable can be war against prospered Eropean states (Sweden for example) in comparsion with this. Oby you make me laugh because your posts seem so irrational and illogical compared to the real issues Russia is dealing with But lets say the USA became isolationist do you think Russia would ever target countries like Sweden that have no military compared to russia?

I am a huge supporter of Germany and Merkel and how Germany after WW2 has been able to recreate its identity and become very significant again. And it did this not through military superiority but hard work and economic transformation. Lol, your German economic "miracle" is just using of Jewish Nazi gold.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_family https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flick_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-11081786 http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34358783 http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2663635/Revealed-How-Nazis-helped-German-companies-Bosch-Mercedes-Deutsche-Bank-VW-VERY-rich-using-slave-labor.html etc. Yep, proscriptions, slave labor and plundering of conquered lands is so profitable. Oby those links are history, they are irrelevant to what Germany is nowadays and all the positive it does This appears to be something you Russians dont understand, your past doesn't define you and I would encourage you to think more about real challenges in the year 2016 and stop worrying about the past This is one of the main reasons your economy is such a mess, misplaced attempts to " restore the great Russian bear "

Yes but what you want is not going to happen, you cannot have the single market with all its benefits but reject certain laws or control from Brussels This is the harsh lesson the UK is learning from BREXIT...the EU has its good and bad points but the good far outweighs the bad Of course you can, its just Brussels don't want it. its different story. Free movement of people and goods doesn't require to police agriculture for example. Its not that simple, the EU works because of the relatively strict enforcement of rules and expectations from Brussels You cant pick and choose what suits you even if I can empathize with some of your criticism Thats why other unions who have tried to copy the EU have failed miserably, like the Arab League and the African Union...they dont enforce the rules or implement good governance you are completely misguided, I am talking about trade and free movement of people and you are still talking about internal affairs of independent nations need to be regulated by Brussel. Only regulations for customs are relevant to free trade, nothing else. You ar just another imperialist who thinks that bigger and 'better' states should impose their views on others (funny you kinda support 'preying on the weak') Am I misguided? Maybe I am not explaining my point properly, the EU has several core foundations and rules that any member state has to follow These include free movement of people within the EU, you cant say you dont want this if you want to belong to the EU Imperialist\Colonialist\ White Capitalist ...yes I have been called all these names. None matter because its not relevant to the rules of the EU How boring... I've been a hopeless idealist, a communist according to more... Conservative Germans (usually aged above 70) and an imperialist by several non Germans... Isn't that an impressive track record? I will happily debate any ideology as long as people remain civil and polite. Dont think its wrong to be an idealist, I am also an idealist in some ways as sometimes thats the only way we can rationalize certain global events and there outcome

you are a) misguided b) can't read c) trolling I have stated multiple times that I am for free movement within EU Okay, lets go back then because I want to understand what your criticism is What exactly is your issue with the institutions of the EU ? You say agriculture....is that is?

Yes but what you want is not going to happen, you cannot have the single market with all its benefits but reject certain laws or control from Brussels This is the harsh lesson the UK is learning from BREXIT...the EU has its good and bad points but the good far outweighs the bad Of course you can, its just Brussels don't want it. its different story. Free movement of people and goods doesn't require to police agriculture for example. Its not that simple, the EU works because of the relatively strict enforcement of rules and expectations from Brussels You cant pick and choose what suits you even if I can empathize with some of your criticism Thats why other unions who have tried to copy the EU have failed miserably, like the Arab League and the African Union...they dont enforce the rules or implement good governance you are completely misguided, I am talking about trade and free movement of people and you are still talking about internal affairs of independent nations need to be regulated by Brussel. Only regulations for customs are relevant to free trade, nothing else. You ar just another imperialist who thinks that bigger and 'better' states should impose their views on others (funny you kinda support 'preying on the weak') Am I misguided? Maybe I am not explaining my point properly, the EU has several core foundations and rules that any member state has to follow These include free movement of people within the EU, you cant say you dont want this if you want to belong to the EU Imperialist\Colonialist\ White Capitalist ...yes I have been called all these names. None matter because its not relevant to the rules of the EU

Yes but what you want is not going to happen, you cannot have the single market with all its benefits but reject certain laws or control from Brussels This is the harsh lesson the UK is learning from BREXIT...the EU has its good and bad points but the good far outweighs the bad Of course you can, its just Brussels don't want it. its different story. Free movement of people and goods doesn't require to police agriculture for example. Its not that simple, the EU works because of the relatively strict enforcement of rules and expectations from Brussels You cant pick and choose what suits you even if I can empathize with some of your criticism Thats why other unions who have tried to copy the EU have failed miserably, like the Arab League and the African Union...they dont enforce the rules or implement good governance

Yes but what you want is not going to happen, you cannot have the single market with all its benefits but reject certain laws or control from Brussels This is the harsh lesson the UK is learning from BREXIT...the EU has its good and bad points but the good far outweighs the bad

Definitely idealist.... I want a Europe under European leadership with a pr parliamentit still sounds more like imperialist Sorry I don't want to be rude (I know its sensitive spot for Germans) but there is some historical precedence on what happen when Germany want united Europe Ha, not rude... Don't worry... Yeah we did indeed try to conquer Europe several times, but it always ended in disaster It is obviously a problem though how to unite Europe without makingcertain countries more powerful, but I'm sure we can work out Dont get offended but there is some unreasonable "anti-German " sentiment from some members on this forum, its not malicious but some members think Germany has made several bad decisions lately. LIke Merkel initially allowing all the refugees into the EU...anyway this may lead to some negative views to your initial question But I like your perspective Yeah, I'm living in London atm, and I can definitely agree on that . But hey, I'm getting used to t. And I still think taking in refugees is the only right thing to do, at least for a rich country like Germany For me I still support Merkel as I absolutely believe she is a brilliant leader and I firmly believe in the sustainability of the EU Also the initial offer from Germany was generous and altruistic, 1.3 milllion Syrians been offered a new life. But then the floodgates were torn open and the EU was expected to absorb 4 million refugees from countries that were governed under Sharia law outside of Syria ...its an unfair and difficult objective to expect the EU and its member states to just accept this My view was now radically changed because I'm very concerned with populist right wing political parties using the anti-immigration view to break up the EU Even in Germany Merkel's political party has lost some local elections, it would be myopic to ignore this frustration from many EU citizens. And based on the reality I can understand why many EU citizens are unhappy with the number of refugees coming into the EU So I want to resolve this as I dont want the EU to be negatively impacted in the future

Definitely idealist.... I want a Europe under European leadership with a pr parliament it still sounds more like imperialist Sorry I don't want to be rude (I know its sensitive spot for Germans) but there is some historical precedence on what happen when Germany want united Europe Ha, not rude... Don't worry... Yeah we did indeed try to conquer Europe several times, but it always ended in disaster It is obviously a problem though how to unite Europe without makingcertain countries more powerful, but I'm sure we can work out Dont get offended but there is some unreasonable "anti-German " sentiment from some members on this forum, its not malicious but some members think Germany has made several bad decisions lately. LIke Merkel initially allowing all the refugees into the EU...anyway this may lead to some negative views to your initial question But I like your perspective

I am a huge supporter of Germany and Merkel and how Germany after WW2 has been able to recreate its identity and become very significant again. And it did this not through military superiority but hard work and economic transformation. I am also a supporter of the EU so this poll is interesting I dont think you could archive a political reality like the US because the member states in the EU already complain about " lack of sovereignty " so a US model would be even less autonomous than the EU currently has ?

Dont you think we first need to define what " drive a conversation into the ground " means?

WOD you cant take it seriously, I have been subjected to similar jokes If you believe you are right about something then just link it and if people dont believe you thats there choice. But dont get annoyed by people disputing what you say or teasing you Its just examples of forum badinage ....its to be expected