TheHarlequin

I wanted to get into WoW but the setting.. humans vs orcs might as well play LotRO same general concept with a much more fleshed out background and lore. The setting never appealed to me sadly.

I think that's why I find them dull. I'm not into serious isolationism in stories because I don't understand it. Individually I can understand introversion and a strong lack of desire to be face-to-face social very often, but isolationist is another matter. It's not interesting because it makes for a static/dull culture, and one that's likely doomed in the long run because of it, as you mention. Although I do realize in NV they were trying to lessen that aspect of themselves a bit. You need to play fallout 1 to understand more, I think. In fallout, the world is just about emerging from the war, less than a century before. There are small settlements and some are trying to organize and could be the begining of a new civilization, but only if you have a good imagination because those settlements are nothing but grains. The BoS was created to be sure humanity would not lose the technology and knowledge that existed before the war. They had to be isolated to avoid influencing the new settlements with those technoogies because giving to much firepower to instable groups would just tranform the new world into an even more bloody battleground. Strating from fallout 2 and onward, there are groups that seem to be large enough to give some stability and the BoS could thus change their point of views. It's a bit visible in fallout 2 with the small BoS outpost in major towns : they are here to observe and decide when it will be the good moment. In fallout 3, the BoS attitude is strange because they are destabilizing the already too unstable settlements, but Lyons thinks it's a necessity because of the mutant threat. In Fallout NV, the BoS has already missed he point the BoS could have changed and are just remants of the past surrounded by a state (the NCR). They have no more goals, they are just relics from the past and are dommed to disappear. As you can see, there was ogic in the begining for the isolationism. But this isolationist should have evolved. The BoS was just too rigid to evolve and we could already have predicted it in fallout 1 : they needed to be rigid in the fallout 1 world to survive, but this rigidity would become a burden in the future. QFT Wow.. thats about the best synopsis of the BoS I think I have ever read. That is really well done! It's hard to just jump into fo3 and 'get it' without playing fo1 and 2, at least when the BoS are concerned. As they have a very detailed and deep background. Much more so then you see in DC or NV and while they gave a basic overview you loose the context and their actions/reasoning's from the past games to give their current attitudes that very context. As he said above the BoS was almost like star fleet in ST and the prime directive back in fo1 and 2. They horded tech so to keep it out of the hands of those that would abuse it and cause another great war. They see themselves as pre-war technology's guardians. However again, as stated above they sadly have not evolved with their views as time marched on and they are now becoming a relic, and thus moot, of the past. As civilization is starting to take hold again and thus their entire point of existing is side lined.

I would agree. I think shes resourceful enough to survive the trip if she stuck to major roadways.

You got it backwards, he was cut off BECAUSE he helped the locals. I get that. I am simply speaking from a logistic point of view. From what NV has showed us the west coast BoS is in rough shape. My point is even if lyons was their golden child in still in their good graces how much 'support' could they really give him with 3000 miles between them? The trickle of support would seem moot considering their adversities in DC I think lyons would HAVE to go grabbing local recruits and resources eventually no matter his standing with the west coast bos.

Lets assume that's true (seemed to me there were at least 2x more recruits training at the citadel then there were outcasts however) its still better to break even then be at a loss, no?

I don't see how a civil war would have been created by default. Send a new elder escorted by a dozen loyal paladins. 'sorry to inform you the bos leadership has decided because of your infractions against the codex you are being relieved'. Either the DC elder would have to abide by the rule of law (which I get the impression he prob would if push came to shove) or as you state start a fight with the west coast bos. I don't think he would risk killing any more bos members to start a civil war. In the end he was trying to save the BoS not annex his faction and just doing what he thought was best being so far away from the main group. I didn't get the impression he has a chip on his shoulder and a axe to grind against the main faction on the west coast. Elder Lyons was not trying to help the Brotherhood survive. He took it as a moral imperative to help the people of the Wasteland. He wouldn't start a fight with the west coast, but he would be damned to stop protecting the people of the DC area. Some of his own men defected because of this and are actively hostile to him for it, including his former second in command. He's basically already in a small civil war over the isse. Valid points. However I saw as him taking a semi-FotA route. If I befriend the DC civilians be helping protect them, I can recruit the best of them into the BoS to keep my own goals going. While he was certainly being altruistic I don't think his ENTIRE motivation was so. I think in the big picture he knew, he was cut off and even if still on good terms with the west coast what kind of realistic support could they give him due to sheer distance? He decided to kill 2 birds with one stone. Help the locals and as a result bring more much needed man power into the mix. Again I am not saying he wasn't a forward thinking, kind man. I am simply saying he also wanted to keep the BoS alive and made the best choice to get all his goals met.

Changing and adding. The continents have been sundered by Deathwing's escape so the land masses do look different and of course the expansion going live today adds five more level (85 is the new cap), flying is now permitted in Azeroth, there are two new races to play (Goblin & Worgen) and a multitude of new dungeons and raids. Very bold of them. Hopefully it keeps things fresh. I lost interest in AoC due to the stale content but also the population dropped so low was hard to find a PUG unless you were part of a clique or guild.

So this new expansion they are totally changing all the quests, dungeons and maps? So no one will know what is where when they login after the new expansion goes live?

I don't see how it didn't make sense. the DC bos so far away from the main group they need to be more liberal with their recruiting to survive as they can't easily get new bodies so far away. So he takes the best tribals he can find, educates them, and trains them in warfare. violates the codex but when survival comes into play sometimes you need to toss the rule book out the window. I can easily see why the elder made the choices he made.

I don't see how a civil war would have been created by default. Send a new elder escorted by a dozen loyal paladins. 'sorry to inform you the bos leadership has decided because of your infractions against the codex you are being relieved'. Either the DC elder would have to abide by the rule of law (which I get the impression he prob would if push came to shove) or as you state start a fight with the west coast bos. I don't think he would risk killing any more bos members to start a civil war. In the end he was trying to save the BoS not annex his faction and just doing what he thought was best being so far away from the main group. I didn't get the impression he has a chip on his shoulder and a axe to grind against the main faction on the west coast.

It's the right mix and COMBO of these elements that makes the SR setting what it is. Not any one or another by themselves. But you knew that. Just splitting hairs for the sake of splitting hairs to create a artificial debate or argument. Have fun with that. If you still don't 'get it' then ask someone else to hand hold you though my point.

That really sucks to be blunt. Why they screwing the BoS? They were like the powerhouses in FO1 and 2 now... they are the red headed step child the writers seem to want to kick around. Sad when the DC BoS is really in a much better position then the west coast chapters. What I read ingame I get the impression ALL the BoS on the west coast are more or less in the same boat as the vegas branch. Are they trying to kill them off canon wise I wonder? It seems that they're moving more towards a stance where they might be the best technologically and trained, but they're just out manned by anything they go up against and they've stagnated due to their membership not being added to from the outside. Honestly at this point I'd see the Followers of the Apocolypse overtaking and absorbing the BoS to a degree simply because the Followers are ideologically similar (don't let the bad tech get into the hands of evil people) but more flexible and have a larger membership and an easy way to maintain that membership (rather than just having women constantly pop out babies to keep the roster strong). Maybe it turns out kinda like the the Sisters of Battle from Warhammer 40k. The BoS is based entirely around military and warfare while the Followers are mainly about helping but both operate under the same leadership. I could see that and I think Vic has the right idea. I could see her way of thinking slowing taking over as time goes on and perhaps some forward thinking elder approaching the FotA on some kind of merger. For such a well read, educated and advanced society I am perplexed they don't see the writing on the wall. Seems every Elder turns a blind eye to the reality of their situation. Except the DC elder who if I recall correctly got 'ex-communicated' in effect from the BoS for his actions. What I never understood about the DC situation is if the leadership back in cali was so upset by the elder in DC why not just send a new elder to replace him. Pretty clear they could have removed him for violations of there rules. That said I actually DID find a BoS patrol in my new game. However they seemed to just be patrolling the fence line of hidden valley.. but at least there are patrols out there if you replace the elder...

Every PnP RPG is based in a cyberpunk future dystopia where groups are hired to perform black ops style missions? huh... wasn't aware of that...

What amused me was that in some Shadowrun supplement published post DX1, they slipped in a few offhand comments about UNATCO and Liberty Island.. I'm trying to remember exactly where it was.. but it was some throwaway paragraph... That's awesome. SR writers generally like to poke little inside jokes about current history into their books. For example I recall one book talking about a 'Austrian actor who become gov and tried to get a amendment so he could run for president' comment in it around the time arnold took won the election. Little things like that I always found entertaining in SR. To me SR also seems made to be a MMORPG. Just the concept and background screams awesome MMORPG (assuming its executed correctly and not done half arsed)

Totally agree. On a related note I always got the impression, in DX1 at least, they had a fair amount of inspiration from Shadowrun. I am waiting for a real solid CRPG SR PC game to be done. I think Obsidian would be marvelous at it. As they seem to be the ones of the current batch of studios least afraid to really go to dark places with themes & their writing. FO:NV a great example.

The tree, mistletoe, wreath and such xmas decorations all trace back, if I recall correctly, to German pagan roots. So if anyone was to complain it should be the xians, not anyone secular or pagan. But as a whole I agree its silly so complain about such no matter your point of view. I always get a kick out of that when I do ghost tours here in Salem and I have a few moments to talk about modern witchcraft and paganism. And when I talk about the roots of halloween, xmas and the tree after explaining the roots of them I say something along the lines of 'So in the end, as a pagan witch, thank you for celebrating our pagan holidays we appreciate it!' Most folks get a chuckle out of it but there is always a few that fail to see the humor in it and I target them for the rest of the tour LOL

Clearly failed at history. This, coming from you? The ironing is delicious. While my tone has been disputed I have yet to see one historical fact I have posted been said was incorrect. So please do enlighten me... assuming you can. If I am in error on something history wise I certainly have a vested interest in such to know.

Being the most newbie writer of the list I am sure I could use a trained eye from you folks. Finding a editor seems a bit difficult for some odd reason even for a small project like mine. I thought there were tons of editors/English majors around looking to fluff up their resume or looking for side projects, however seems my assumption is in error. hehe None the less I'd be up for it. Let me know

I disagree. I think his reasoning was sound and was the exact impression of the purpose of that quest as I assumed. You are saying the quest does NOT drag you all over the map where odds are you are going to encounter other locations as you travel? How is it weak then?

If I said that be 5 posts claiming I am a Christan hater... LOL Glad to know you (and prob most others who bring these topics up) get a get out of jail free card. That is because you would place the blame on the whole of Christendom, instead of where it belongs, upon the Catholic Church's leadership. As I have implied and pointed fingers in past posts, I do blame the leadership.. clearly. Go back and read my posts.

I repeat myself; I simply hold my convictions until proven to my satisfaction I should do otherwise. Isn't that what we all do?

I have a book deal for a Salem guide book done from a local Witches point of view. It's not going to be huge 40 to 50 pages prob. I certainly need a trained eye to assist with grammar, flow, etc.. I really am not going to be making much $ on this deal honestly being my first book, however I will be happy to put you in the credits in the front and thus added fluff for your resume. However, If you do end up putting a lot of time in I have no issue working out some kind of compensation if it gets to that point. Either case if interested let me know and we can share contact info

Are you worried about something out coming in or something in getting out? If you have a router between your box and modem you don't need to have a s/w firewall as in pertains to anything out coming in. As the router firewall will block everything anyways. Now if you want to know whats in going out that's another story and a s/w firewall is useful on that level.

I.. I think I just spunked in my pants.. im so excited for this... just saying..

That really sucks to be blunt. Why they screwing the BoS? They were like the powerhouses in FO1 and 2 now... they are the red headed step child the writers seem to want to kick around. Sad when the DC BoS is really in a much better position then the west coast chapters. What I read ingame I get the impression ALL the BoS on the west coast are more or less in the same boat as the vegas branch. Are they trying to kill them off canon wise I wonder?