Saito Hikari

Well, the theme that we've chosen is 'Animancer Technology'. Any effects from the 'Wild and Unpredictable' choice would definitely be soul-related. It's probably the kind of ranged weapon that would go very well with Ciphers in a thematic sense - and it might be mildly hilarious given Hunting Bow's modal that sacrifices -15 Accuracy for -50% delay.

The lightning's going to be for when they bring back Stormcaller from PoE1. Because they really should. I think we should have a flashy bow for every element.

It's basically if you forgot to rest before the fight and walk into a fight with no Empower points to use. At the moment, it's more or less a throwaway ability that should be replaced by something with an entirely different effect, unless they make it so that the bonus point allows a character to use Empower twice in combat. In which case, it'll theoretically rocket the spell into broken tier.

I'm not ignoring charm. I think the point of this thread is that Cipher's role shouldn't be exclusively a charm bot, because almost everything else about their toolkit is underwhelming. I mean, when I went from POE1 to POE2, I couldn't believe that Whispers of Treason was suddenly lasting upwards of 20+ seconds. I also couldn't believe that when the nerf bat came swinging, it hit Cipher's higher cost utility spells instead of the charms (though it's not to say that said utility spells didn't deserve a nerf either - Pain Block in particular was rather ridiculous pre-nerf).

> I think the issue is, most encounters don't last long enough for the Cipher's primary advantage (infinite resources) to matter. Cipher can still be strong, but I've come to the realization that it will only feel that way if you're literally neglecting all of your other party members - and that's exactly what most Cipher mains will do, as Ciphers are already one of the most micromanagement-heavy classes in the game. There are other issues that make this problem something that needs to be tackled at multiple angles, but this is what it essentially boils down to. 1) The hardest encounters in the game are those that will last the longest, often. So Ciphers have a lot of power when it matters the most. 2) You don't have to 'neglect' your other party members. This is a real-time-with-pause game. Set the game to pause after each ability is cast, and simply issue a new command to your Cipher each time he finishes an ability. Or, use the AI. The point I'm trying to get to is that if one macros every party member equally, most other classes are going to naturally outperform the Cipher in every way that isn't a charm bot, unless people have found a way to make the Cipher work as a multiclass. And even then, Cipher as a multiclass in such a case has more of a passive/secondary purpose - which is the entire point of the Soul Blade subclass, now that I think about it. I think what would help the most (outside of redesigning like half of the Cipher's spell selection) is an across the board reduction in cast time for most of their spells. Longer cast times means time you're not spending to attack in order to build up focus again. This is a contributing factor as to why Ascendant seems so much stronger than the other Cipher subclasses/non-subbed, as they don't have to worry abut auto-ing to chain cast for a long period of time. Actually, Ascendant in general seems rather problematic for balance, now that I think about it. The very nature of their 'unlimited focus for 20-30 seconds when at max focus' design means that any buffs to Cipher is going to matter a lot more for them than the other Ciphers, and the impact of any nerfs will negatively affect the other Ciphers much more than an Ascendant. Take the Time Parasite nerf, for instance - Time Parasite in itself costs about 1/3 - 1/4 of a Cipher's max focus, and the nerf was done in a way that it made it much more difficult for the other Ciphers to take advantage of, while Ascendants can chain cast it and pretend that the nerf didn't even happen.

I think the issue is, most encounters don't last long enough for the Cipher's primary advantage (infinite resources) to matter. Cipher can still be strong, but I've come to the realization that it will only feel that way if you're literally neglecting all of your other party members - and that's exactly what most Cipher mains will do, as Ciphers are already one of the most micromanagement-heavy classes in the game. There are other issues that make this problem something that needs to be tackled at multiple angles, but this is what it essentially boils down to. This is apparent towards mid/late game, where the open nature of the game makes it very easy to overlevel most encounters after you leave the tutorial island, and all the other classes gain more of their per-encounter resources to spend on top of new abilities. Ciphers just gain more spells, most of which are of questionable utility/strength. If anything, Cipher's primary advantage in infinite resources has sort of shifted into a disadvantage since they need to build up focus to use their spells. It doesn't help that there doesn't appear to be any gear in the game that exists specifically to power up Cipher spells in any way (as opposed to the amulet in 1 that was added in White March that drastically increased focus gain if your HP was above 50%), while there are several for Wizards and Druids. Chanters do have the same sort of issue, but their skills are good enough to keep up with the rest of the pack thanks to some skills receiving passive upgrades later on, they have more overall tools to bring to the table that can't really be replicated by other classes, and they always generate a consistent stream of their resources throughout a fight (and it does appear that they enter fights with all or most of their phrases to immediately summon something, while Ciphers start fights with like 25% of their max focus). On the other side of the spectrum, Ciphers need to deal damage via autos/marital skills to generate focus, their skills peak at around power level 4-6, and the long cast times of some of their key spells means they aren't launching autos/using skills to generate more focus. I still maintain that the Time Parasite nerf was a really weird decision that has even further solidified Cipher as a secondary multiclass option more than anything else.

This seems like a weird hill to plant a flag on and declare an edict from. One of the major design concerns with PoE2 was to make sure that combat was easier to follow, hence the reduction in max party members at one time and so on. I suspect the overall flashiness is a side consideration of that as well. I doubt the developers even thought someone who only played the game for a few hours and supposedly dropped it was going to go on the forums and spawn a 10 page thread over lore justifications for attack animations. The game universe emphasizes soul power quite a lot too. People earlier in the thread mentioned that some enemies use some of the same abilities that the player's characters have access to, but I don't remember any that use anything higher than Tier 5 skills (aside from a Priest or two using Storm of Holy Fire in the first game). There's also something else to consider, a minor spoiler for the first game for the discussion of 'souls power all magic': a certain character wanted to kill the Watcher and use their soul to create true time magic as well, regardless of what class the Watcher actually was.

I think a good boon to single class Cipher would be to rework Reaping Knives entirely, since as it currently behaves, it only really works if you cast it on a melee-attacking ally with fast attack speed. It has bad synergy with everyone else. Turn it into a self-buff for Ciphers, and have effects that depend on the type of weapon(s) equipped. For example (and I freely admit some of the following may not be thought through very well)... - Dual-wielding retains its original effect, but also adds 10% crit to hit, 20% hit to graze, and 30% graze to miss conversion when the Cipher is attacked. - Single-handed lets the Cipher inflict damage twice for each auto-attack, as well as gaining +2 Penetration. - Sword and board increases accuracy by +10 and lets the Cipher regenerate 10% of max focus each time they take -any- damage, regardless of source. - Wands and scepters deal 1.5m area of effect damage. - Rod damage is entirely converted to Raw if it will do more damage, gains +1 penetration, and generates 30% more focus. - Firearms are given 40% miss to graze, 20% graze to hit, and 10% hit to crit conversion. - Bows and crossbow attacks that miss their intended target will reroll against the nearest enemy within 3m. - All effects add some raw damage. Duration is also set to 25 seconds base. Obviously, the skill would have to be renamed to something that fits.

Adding to this, given the whole 'mysterious and largely unexplored untamed land' vibes the descriptions of the area are giving off, the region has major potential for gameplay concepts that have been rarely touched upon, if at all. I have a fairly radical idea in particular. Consider that PoE1 and 2 have largely focused on Eothas, Magran, Berath, and Ondra. My idea for a theoretical PoE3 taking place in the Living Lands would shift the focus towards Wael, Galawain, Skaen, and Woedica. Wael especially, being the god of mysteries, dreams, and time. At this point, it seems people may be getting tired of the Watcher taking center stage, but it seems critical that we stick with them for at least one more game, given what happened at the end of 2. It's also not too much of a stretch to believe that a series of events in the past may have led to the current state of the Living Lands. The twist would be that we get to create TWO main characters - the Watcher in the present time, and one of the Watcher's awakened past selves who explains what happened through their dreams, if the Watcher allows them to. This also means that we'd have to manage two different parties, which means a minimum of 8 companions. Switching between the parties is done via resting. With a setup like that, this allows the player to make decisions with the past self that can alter exploration for the Watcher in the present day. For example, let's say in one of the past regions of the Living Lands, the past self has to choose between releasing a large dam or leaving it shut. (The dam itself in the present day would be in a state where the Watcher can't operate the controls themselves.) - Releasing it results in the lake above being transformed into a small river in the present day that can be easily crossed on foot, opening access to an optional area from the Watcher's side earlier than usual (as well as introducing combat encounters into the area). The forest below turns into an open marshland, dramatically changing combat encounters. - Leaving it shut has the lake remain as is, preventing the Watcher's party from crossing to the other side until later in the game, but provides a bounty of resources for whatever base-building mechanic such a theoretical game could have. Combat encounters in the forest below would emphasize line of sight and choke points compared to the open space and areas of slower movement that the previous option has, along with the enemies changing across both scenarios. Of course, there would also be interactions like the past self leaving items in treasure chests alone for the Watcher's party to find in the present day. Or to go a step further, maybe the past self finds a golem/necromancer/godlike of some sort, and certain choices with them may lead to them reappearing in the present day as a potential companion for the Watcher. The two main characters would have unique quirks. The Watcher has their Watcher powers as usual. With the present-day region being sparsely populated and teeming with unknown enemies, the Watcher's side of the story would have more mandatory combat situations. The past self does not have the luxury of being able to peer into souls. They'd have to find other means of obtaining information, which means their civil skills are given greater emphasis. Obviously, there wouldn't be as much combat on the past self's side (which works out, since as explained earlier, the past self can indirectly send some equipment over to the Watcher's side). The problem is, I'm not sure how such a setting could tie into figuring out any solutions for the state of the world at the end of 2. It also comes with the major problem that this is a one-way system, as the Watcher's progression would be largely gated by the past self's own progression (the Watcher wouldn't be allowed to enter the areas that the past self has a direct hand in altering until after the past self has shown the Watcher exactly what happened, or else there will be continuity problems), with no logical way for the Watcher to affect the past self's world in return. However, this opens the setting for a large degree of experimentation and replay-ability, both narrative-wise and combat-wise.

I find that the distribution of Cipher spells is very strange. Most of the absolute essential spells are in Tier 4/5/6, but everything else is situational in comparison and/or are largely as is because they were carried over from PoE1 (aside from Time Parasite, of which the nerf to that is something I don't comprehend, as I was under the assumption that the majority of players played multiclass Cipher rather than singleclass). I skip over all the Tier 7 spells especially. If Ancestor's Honor actually granted another empowerment use in combat, then it'd be worth using as opposed to just resting - although that would make it worthy of being moved to Tier 9, swapping places with Haunting Chains. I would rank Amplified Thrust a little bit higher, as I think the value of that is mainly a quick way to safely toss an enemy away from one of your backliners. Although you can simply just charm them instead. Ectophysic Echo is actually really good as a damage spell early-game since it's enemy only, it's a reliable source of crush damage that continues ticking once activated, and the crush damage ticks at a very fast rate. I find it's better for ranged Ciphers though, as it's usually easier to macro the beam around your melee/summons than the Cipher themselves. It can act as a sort of defensive/offensive AoE against enemies trying to rush down your backliners too, and to wreck everything in between as your melee/summon goes for the enemy backline. I feel Reaping Knives now mainly exists for Soul Blade and Ascendants as an extra source of focus generation. But I hardly use it because I find my cast time better spent using other spells. I honestly haven't bothered using it at all since the Time Parasite nerf. Ringleader feels more like a Tier 7/8/9 spell to be honest, but it was also a Tier 5 spell back in PoE1.

It hurts, but I expected it. Frostseeker still wins in the eye candy department anyway, and I find the other (very few) unique bows still aren't worth using in comparison. Of course the developers are likely to take this the wrong way and nerf Frostseeker even harder instead of buffing the other bows. Even then, I still haven't found a better ranged weapon for Ciphers to use anyway, so in my view, Frostseeker just went from broken to amazingly good. They might have gone slightly overboard with the nerf to the base damage, though. The base damage being dropped 1-2 points on top of the additional frost damage being dropped from 25% to 10% is a bit silly, considering each shot now only does like 0.5-1 additional frost damage as a result. The real overpowered part was the frost AoE for critting anyway, which was also nerfed. My Ascendant archer Cipher is still chugging along just fine on Veteran mode. The fire dragon still didn't stand any chance at all even with all the nerfs, and even with me still using the un-optimized Biting Whip instead of Draining Whip. Though with the damage nerf to Frostseeker, I am making plans to respec to Draining Whip.

When I played with my Cipher yesterday, it seemed like Amplified Wave still had its prone effect. The skill description still mentioned it too. I agree with most of the adjustments in this patch, but Time Parasite is one of the few that I highly, highly disagree with. It's problematic because it was the single reason to go single class Cipher over multiclass, and to go after the one spell that defined single class Cipher gameplay like that is highly questionable. At the same time though, old Time Parasite was probably way too absurd in the hands of an Ascendant Cipher, but the nerf hit the other types of Ciphers disproportionately hard. At the very least, I find that with the nerf to 25% speed, Time Parasite's base 12 second buff duration is now far too short for what's supposed to be a tier 8 single class self-buff spell that requires 80 focus to use, especially with the long casting time that it has. Melee Ciphers will waste some of the short buff duration walking from enemy to enemy, which means that Time Parasite is now essentially a highly situational spell for melee builds, and is possibly going to be relegated to something only frequently used in ranged/caster builds. The non-Ascendent Ciphers will now want to build up even more focus before using Time Parasite, since auto attacks to recharge focus while under Time Parasite will be slower than before. With that said, I propose that if Time Parasite is to be kept at 25%, I think the base buff duration should be increased to around 20 seconds. This would make the effects noticeable over a longer period of time to justify continued use, while avoiding the super burst of the old 50% effect.

This is a great bow for ciphers. It fires three projectiles that seek out the enemy and each projectile buils focus. The bow itself won't do wild damage on it's own but if you need to build up focus quickly this a great weapon for it. isn't focus just damage-based now? so if you fire (and hit) 3 projectiles for 5+5+5 damage or one for 15, the amount of focus will be the same? stat-wise frostseeker is just a usual exceptional warbow with +25% frost damage on top. before i felt comfortable with upgrading it to superb for 30k i was using a vanillar superb warbow instead, for better penetration and accuracy Focus is damage-based, but the thing that makes Frostseeker particularly good for ranged/consistent DPS caster-type Ciphers is that the AoE damage from landing a critical hit with the base shots also contributes to focus generation (not to mention that only the high-tier spirits resist the pure frost damage from the AoE). So if you manage to land consistent critical hits with it, it will do more damage/generate more focus than any other bow in the game. This is only really seen with custom Cipher characters with high Perception though, as the companions/sidekicks have lower Perception.

For steam, I was finally able to get it to download by going to the game directory in your games list -> DLC -> click on 'Add All DLC to cart' (this will add paid DLC as well, but I assume you can just ignore that), then going back into the game directory and scrolling down to my DLC list for Deadfire. I unchecked/rechecked the box next to the DLC and it downloaded a minute later, though there's no progress bar to show this.

Cipher would be straight up absurdly broken in terms of the absolute utility they already have if they could cast Pain Block on themselves, just saying. Time Parasite by itself is ludicrous enough to the point where Cipher is one of the most viable single class options, and it's a self buff.

I do enjoy the pace of PoE2 combat more than PoE1, despite the ease of it. The problem is, PoE2 fights do not appear to be tuned to the tools that the player gained in this game (the variety of unique weapons that can completely change builds, the empower system, and per-encounter spells). I get the impression they were tuned towards PoE1-style combat, before the changes to the combat system were made. Indeed, the hardest fights I've encountered in PoE2 weren't hard for the reasons people think. They were hard because of external factors largely beyond the player's control (certain ship/scripted battles where my archer cipher MC got nuked immediately because the Watcher always starts in the front with no way to rearrange formation beforehand, and Fampyrs charming everyone in a game where most of the charm counters from the previous game no longer exist and the only real counter being a specific food dish, along with Charm Gaze possibly being bugged to have no discernible cast time). It also doesn't help that the combat system was overhauled in such a way in a game where the focus on combat has been diminished greatly - many fights can be outright prevented either by stealth or dialogue options, and that's on top of the lower frequency of combat situations in the first place. One can compare the 'time spent in combat' statistic between both games to see this.

Pure Cipher, no subclass. Admittedly I macro'd the hell out of him. Also he had the Frostseeker bow, and his damage exploded once he got Time Parasite. Rather unoptimized considering normal first playthrough. Xoti: 14763.3 damage. Pure Priest, mostly a buff/healing character wielding a pistol/lantern. Aloth: 45425.1 damage. Pure Wizard. Didn't really macro him, I mostly set his AI to default and I don't think I even used his top tier spells that playthrough. Nor did I ever bother with Empower at all. Eder: 32195.4 damage. Sword and board pure Fighter tank. Pallegina: 36435.6 damage. Paladin/Chanter. I was actually surprised by this result, since I gave her the Whispers of the Endless Paths. Maybe she spent too much time trying to summon instead of hitting things. I think my second playthrough will probably yield far more interesting results...