Lampros

Compromise between lore and game-play efficiency was inevitable! I just could not come up with a spear/pike Barbarian figure from Middle Earth. Perhaps Glorfindel "discovered" Aeglos; and he is sort of more aloof or mysterious than the other Elves we encounter. Okay, I am stretching it. I am still in Ciliant Lis, so maybe I can change? I could make Gimli a dual wield Barbarian instead of a dual wield Fighter and stick a 2nd Chanter as a Tall Grass 2nd-liner. But Tall Grass seems the most effective for a Barbarian - and frankly only truly effective for a Barbarian. And I really want a Tall Grass character on the 2nd line as a link between the front-line melees and the 3rd line squishies. Anyways, I can already see I need a lot more Accuracy later. My DW Paladin has like 31 percent hit chance against the big spider in Cliant Lis. WTF? Maybe I should have given him more Perception. I had 18 Might, 10 Constitution, 10 Dexterity, 12 Perception, 18 Intelligence, and 10 Resolve. I didn't want to dump any stat. Maybe reduce Might to 16 and increase Perception to 14? Also, will 10 Dexterity be a problem later, even if I have a lot of speed buffs?

For vets. Not for us newb peons!

I started. And goddamn, even keeping Heodan alive in the opening scene was a bitch. Everyone jumped him, and I had to kite him forever to get enemies off of him. I cannot wait till level 9 and especially 13!

Until you get respective scrolls and prayers of protection, you can invest into Aegis of Loyalty + Righteous Soul + Executioner's Hood/Redfield.Also specifically for such fights you can take a sceptre/wand/hunting bow in your offset. So if anyone is getting charmed/dominated you can attack him from distance and dispel it immediately. Depends. If you want to micro/alpha-strike with your paladin in every fight - go for it. Otherwise don't bother) You can also take a look at Gyrd Háewanes Sténes. Yup; I am definitely taking both Righteous Soul and Aegis of Loyalty ASAP. Thanks for the quick ranged weapon suggestion - I will take that up. I will also likely get the Gyrd as well. I have to use it before I get Pale Shades anyways.

I am also thinking of duplicating the Rod of Pale Shades and giving them to both my Wizard and Priest. I still need to crit before I can stun, but that may reduce the CC problem a bit - in combination with front-liners having CC trinkets like Munacra.

i was thinking the same... unlike most im not a fan of the cipher and have never used them much in any of my playthroughs... I'd hate to have to start now as it will require i abandon a char that i actually like... Currently im looking at PC(chanter), Eder Pallegina and Ittumak on the front line, my Chanter smack in the middle of the formation with a back like of Sagani, Aloth and Durance (if i have to) ... I am not a fan of Cipher either, since I hate to micro-manage. Well, I am going to run in anyways without one and see what happens. I do have a Wizard, and I may end up duplicating the rod that stuns on crit and give it to both my Priest and Wizard. I also may give my front-line some CC trinkets like Munacra.

It's a matter of preferred playstyle.My preference goes to lots-of-cc + high-dps party. But I know that there also players who prefer a sturdy wall of melees + priest backup; wearing enemies slowly but inevitably so to say. So just try different approaches and see what suits your taste) Ok, I will jump in and see. I am a melee-centric player, so I dislike playing casters and ranged in general for RPGs. So I am comfortable with this kind of melee-heavy set-up, but the one nagging issue is how much difficulty I had with enemy ranged CC users - especially enemy charmers - and I might have trouble getting them down fast. As for the Paladin using back-up gun: Do I need to give my Paladin a talent or item to reduce weapon switch lag - or can I just ignore the weapon switch lag issue, since I will only use the gun for door fights?

It will. You have 3 characters that can solo the game: Aragorn, Elrond and Galadriel. Together + the help of 3 others they have enough potential to securely beat the game. The thing about building a party for PotD is not to make a party that would beat the game, but to make a group that would do so in the fastest + less-coming-back-for-resting manner. Your party lacks reliable per-encounter cc. If you would switch one melee for one ranged, it will be harder to keep enemies from running towards your squishies. Ofc there still remains the problem of fighting in doorways. In this case give your barb a reach melee weapon (e.g. Tall Grass), and your paladin an arquebuss; for their offsets. Yes, the CC issue was mentioned by you in another thread for PotD runs, and that is my biggest concern here, too. I guess I could give my front-liners trinkets that cast CC spells? Like Munacra? My Barbarian will play with Tall Grass, but I didn't know what to do with the other melees for the door fights (assuming I will still have 1 idler since more than 2 cannot fit into a door). But I will equip my Paladin with a re-loading weapon now - as his FotD shots will benefit immensely from them. Thanks!

Hmmm, so I don't need to reduce the melee focus and have another ranged? My main concern was unable to deal with the enemy backrow quickly enough - especially enemy ranged CC. MaxQuest in another thread said a hard CC specialist is needed for PotD, and I am not sure if Wizard can do it, since his CC is short-ranged and tends to be slow. But I guess I can give my front-liner something like Munacra?

My very first run was without vancian classes, because I didn't like Durance, and considered Aloth to be weak back than. I started on Hard, and switched to PotD on level 5. My party consisted of MC (ranged cipher), Eder (tank), Kana (offtank), Pallegina (ranged), Sagani (ranged) and GM (ranged). Always started with a good alpha-strike, and followed with double echo on Itumaak. I had a few problems with enemy charmers, but have quickly learned to hard-cc them asap; and use Liberating Exhortation + potions of Major Recovery as the get out of jail card. Sigh, so I guess I do need a CC archer (Ranger or Borresaine user, etc.) or Cipher after all for PotD? Goddamn, do I need to redraw my group again?

I know, but game-play realities ensured that there couldn't be an exact duplication of lore. There is simply no way to create a dual wield staff/sword character. Besides, if lore and game-play efficiency conflict, I am going to choose efficiency, and there was no way I was going to have 5 melees! As for Hobbits, I am not a fan of them at all, and none of them were really much of fighters anyways Aside from lore, would this group work okay in PotD? None of you addressed that part. It's a "new" fellowship for a reason! Once again, could this group handle PotD? More specifically, do I need to reduce the number of melees?

At the moment (lvl 9, act 2, no WM yet) I usually use the following routine: Step 1: - priest casts Painful Interdiction - wizard: Aspirant's Mark - ranged cipher: 1 auto-attack - pala-tank, dw barb and melee cipher are running towards enemies Step 2: - frontline reaches the enemy ranks - wizard: mastered Spell Blades - priest: Shinning Beacon or Inspiring Radiance; Sometimes Devotions or Circle of Protection - if there are Ogre Druids, ciphers charm them - if some melees want to get to my backline ciphers Mental Bind them - barb: frenzy Step 3: - barb: barbaric blow - ciphers: double silent scream. Sometimes detonate At this point the fight is usually over. But if there would be a harder encounter, the party has few more mini-tactics: - Call to Slumber -> Kalakoth's Blights - Figurine summon behind enemy ranks -> double echo - Mass Confusion; AoE Blinds vs Fortitude, Reflex and Will; AoE Prones and Paralyze. - And the usual: charm enemy backline, paralyze enemy frontline/teleporters. Weapons: Paladin: Outworn Buckler + Wsp. of Yenwood | will switch to Shame or Glory Barbarian: Vile' Loners Lance + Sabre | will switch to either [stunning Cladhaliath and We Toki] or [Resolution + Purgatory] Melee Cipher: Resolution + Sabre | will switch to Bittercut/Purgatory + Little Saviour later on Priest: Gyrd Háewanes Sténes | might switch to Cgadob's Hazel Wizard: Grudge-Keeper rod | gonna be Rod of Pale Shades Cipher: Borresaine Few notes: - I initially have started with an interfering barbarian build. Tankish, with low might and 15 resolve. At the moment I have dropped his RES down to 6. And tbh I dont miss that extra deflection like at all. - Crit chance across the party was quite low on the early levels. But from 8 to 9, wizard and melee cipher have critted on 50% of their hits. While the ranged one have even reached the 60% threshold. - Tracked stats: link Really useful post!

Ah, ok. I did not consider how many different damage bonuses can accrue. Since this will be for a FoD dual wield Paladin, then I may just use either waxed Bittercut or Purgatory/Resolution for the off-hand then.

Okay, after much theory-crafting and nagging forum veterans, I have finally decided on my 1st PotD group. Hooray! For this run, I wanted to create a Middle Earth-themed group that tracked the lore as close as possible and still retain some gameplay viability. At the moment, the primary worry is that the group may be too melee-heavy (4 of them), and I may not be able to reach enemy casters quickly enough. Originally, I was going to have a balanced 3 melee/3 ranged set-up, but at the last minute I decided to change the ranged Chanter to a Chanter tank, because I did not think Dragon Thrashed - as well as nuke Invocations - would reach every enemy from the back row. But I did compensate for the excessive melee focus by ensuring that every melee was capable of either massive AoE or CC. But if you guys do not think this kind of melee concentration is still not viable for a 1st PotD run, then perhaps I can revert. So this is a very rough outline, and please let me know if something is off: Player Character: Aragorn the Human Paladin Inspiration: Blunderboss' Bleak Walker (only notable difference is that this guy is Wayfarer). Played this guy before and loved it. Role: 1st line melee DPS; AoE DPS after level 13 (Sacred Immolation); the usual Paladin aura/heal/cure support (Zealous Focus, Critical Focus, Coordinated Attacks, Lay on Hands, Strange Mercy, Liberation Exhortation) Notable gear: I am likely going Bittercut on the main hand, and either Resolution, Purgatory, or the dagger/rapier options Boerer suggested elsewhere. Gimli the Boreal Dwarf Fighter Inspiration: Roughly AndreaColombo's the Lady of Pain (with some departure, such as the decision to dual wield). New build for me. Role: 1st line melee DPS; some crowd control (multiple Knockdowns, Clear Out, will likely have We Toki) Notable gear: Gimli really can only be limited to battle axes and hatchets in the lore context, and I am not doing hatchets on a DPS guy. So I guess Rimecutter, We Toki, etc.? I may give him some lore latitutude and consider a back-up pike, since Middle Earth Dwarves clearly fight with them. Elrond the Pale Elf Chanter Inspiration: Identical to Boerer's Drake Ambassador, except I don't take the theme as far (so Pale Elf, and I use some different gear). Very successful in prior playthrough, albeit at Normal. Role: 1st line tank; AoE DPS after level 9 (Dragon Thrashed) Notable gear: Sheathed in Autumn (really only weapon choice that fits both the lore and in-game role), shield will probably be Little Savior for the Herald bonus Glorfindel the Pale Elf Barbarian Inspiration: I couldn't find an actual Tall Grass Barbarian build, but I have read a lot of people refer to it, and I can sort of guess the set up. Never played Barbarian before or even seriously considered it until a few minutes ago! Role: 2nd line AoE DPS and CC (Tall Grass Carnage/HoF spams);protector for 3rd line squishies? Notable gear: Tall Grass obviously. The lore is not clear on what weapon Glorfindel used, so I am really being liberal here, but I felt I needed a Barbarian for both the AoE DPS and CC. Gandalf the Moon Godlike Wizard Inspiration: Boerer's Zeblastian Hurtstacker. Another Boerer build I played and loved. Role: 3d line ranged DPS; CC (I guess I have to micro more for PotD, but I am only going to likely do foe-only casts still, LOL!) Notable gear: Golden Gaze Galadriel the Wood Elf Priest Inspiration: I am paranoid about the need to have as much CC as possible in PotD, so I just wanted a Wael Priest that works with Rod of Pale Shades' stun. Priest build is probably the most straightforward build, with least individual variation, anyways. Role: 3rd liner and the usual jack-of-all-trades Priest stuff except heightened stress on CC via Rod of Pale Shades stuns. Notable gear: Rod of Pale Shades Comments and advice, as usual, devoutly solicited. Edit: I lost the save due to the stupid bugged game, after achieving level 6. A new party composition this time: The tall Grass Barbarian is getting dropped; he's getting replaced by a ranged Rogue who will use Borresaine and likely switch to Stormcaller later (unless people tell me that Borresaine is better). 4 melees was simply too difficult to manage. More important, I needed a ranged auto-attacker to take out or disable enemy casters fast. Finally, I am assuming the Ranger can wholly replace the Barbarian's AoE damage and CC role in addition to getting to the enemy ranged more quickly. Also, the Chanter tank is getting moved to the Tall Grass role. I do not want 3 melees on the first-line. So this is how it now looks: 1st line: Aragorn the Tidefall Paladin (will go Outworn Buckler/Shatterstar for more difficult fights); Gimli the dual war hammer Fighter 2nd line: Elrond the Tall Grass Chanter 3rd line: Legolas the Rogue (should he go on the 2nd line, too?); Galadriel the Wizard (Gandalf gets dropped, because we need more females to satisfy the men in the crew); Arwen the Priest. Edit 2: A new party after wiping at Longwatch Falls with the above party at level 10: So having been brutally gang-banged and wiping at Longwatch Falls after pulling two Laguafaeth groups, I am going to adjust my team a bit and try a third group. I am dumping the horrid ranged Rogue (Legolas) and replacing him with another Paladin - a mid-liner who will get Tall Grass. So this is the new group: 1st line: Aragorn the Paladin (Tidefall 2H) Gimli the Fighter (Shatterstar/Godansthunyr dual-wield) 2nd line: Elrond the Paladin (Tall Grass) Gandalf the Chanter (Llawran's Stick or duplicated Tall Grass) 3rd line: Galadriel the Wizard (Golden Gaze?) Arwen the Priest (Gyrd?; she might also go 1H/shield and move to the 2nd line)

I've decided to include the Barbarian and take out the extra archer Chanter. I've read several posts now in another forum where folks stressed the need for a Barbarian to AoE stun/prone foes, and those posts persuaded me.

Right now my planned party has 4 melees (I've settled on Paladin DW, Fighter DW, your Drake Ambassador tank, Tall Grass Barbarian, your Blaster Wizard with Golden Gaze, and a Priest with the Pale Shades rod), so I've decided to ditch the spellsword-style Wizard. But I would like to try this Gandalf-like Wizard in the future definitely! Indeed, aesthetics and role-play is very important for me.

No Monk for me - yet. Too micro-intensive. Also, the lore of the class never appealed to me - in any RPGs. I was also trained as a monk (of the Zen Buddhist variant), so I guess there is some subconscious revulsion against the idea. I just looked at some of the rapiers and daggers you mentioned in this thread and elsewhere, and it dawned on me that I am only losing -1 Accuracy even if I do not choose the relevant Weapon Skills. So to make an Aragorn-like RPG Paladin, I think I will start with a sword main-hand and a dagger or rapier off-hand set-up. In particular, the Daenysis rapier's +3 DR by-pass means that it is in most fights comparable to slower 1H weapons in terms of actual damage, no?

All right. I am going 1 Paladin and 1 Fighter for the front-line. That decides it. I will miss the dual Paladin auras, but even for testing purposes I will run both of these dual wield. I will do dual wield v. 2H test in a later PotD playthrough.

But toward end-game, you should be assumed to have 2 Durganized weapons and the Attack Speed gloves. If so, then I guess 2 Bittercuts are almost always better than 2 Rimecutters? What if I want to wear heavier armor? Is there any scenario where 2 Rimecutters are better?

For this set-up, I want to try PotD, and I am also set on trying not having a shield user. So I am trying to optimize as much weapon DPS as I can on the two front-liners and not just rely on Chanter/Paladin AoEs. The two front-liners will be either two Paladins or one Paladin and one Fighter. One of them will definitely dual wield (hence the question), and the other will either also use dual wield or go for a big 2H like Tidefall. But I guess given that there will be so many mobs in PotD, having 1 front-liner take a more CC-centric approach is not so bad either? (Of course, Barbarian may be best for that, and I am inclined to not take one for a first PotD run).

Really? Self-buffed melee Wizard is a powerhouse? How would the build/weapon set-up go? Would love to investigate this, as I am very interested in a Gandalf melee character!

Is this ever worth it to grab 2 weapons with the Enchantment you want? For instance, if I want 2 weapons with the -20 percent Attack Speed enchantment, is it worth getting Weapon Focus in both Soldier and Knight to be able to dual wield Strike Hard and Rimecutter?

Well, overall, what set-up would lead to higher DPS - dual wielding +20 percent Attack Speed weapons or Annihilating weapons, all else being equal? Edit: Let me elaborate my dilemma. The last playthrough, Azurro offered to sell me 3 Rimecutters - and I only bought 1. But if he does this again, then is it worth dual wielding Rimecutters on my dual wielders (most likely Paladin or Fighter but possibly also Barbarian) - or would using the wax to get 2 Bittercuts still superior?

Hmmm, it would be interesting to test and compare. The biggest issue for me about the Barbarian is that I'd like my front-liners be really sturdy, and the low Deflection is really putting me off. How would you compare Fighter single target burst DPS with that of the Paladin?

That's not what I said... With normal durganized weapons, gauntlets of swift action and two weapon talent you can't have any recovery penalty - thus the best you can wear are durganized robes/monks outfits. Also the Iron Circle adds another 5% recovery penalty in your case which makes you even slower. If you're using instead durganized weapons with speed enchantment (Strike Hard, Last Blade of the Forge, Rimecutter, Danulya) then you can wear up to durganized breastplate. If you want to reach 0% recovery while using also Vulnerable Attack, then you're limited to durganized padded... Jeez. So reaching 0 recovery is hard - and probably not possible even on every weapon-oriented characters (I always have 4 of them).