Phenomenum

Elric, i've done some KW's tests and have interesting results. I took Aloth's armor and turned Overseeing bonus into +5 Fire PL bonus (i've added Fire KW only to "KeywordValueID" string, not in AttackFilter section). Then i modified Fireball to this construction: Ability >>> Attack >>> Status-effect with 100 Burn dmg. Here are results: Ability - Fire KW Attack - No KW Status-effect - No KW Bonus works for Attack & SE Ability - No KW Attack - Fire KW Status-effect - No KW Bonus works for Attack & SE Ability - No KW Attack - No KW Status-effect - Fire KW Bonus not work Ability - No KW Attack - Fire KW in "StatusEffectKeywordsIDs" string Status-effect - No KW Bonus not work Ability - No KW Attack - Fire KW in "StatusEffectKeywordsIDs" string Status-effect - Fire KW Bonus not work Then i've modified Fireball a little more: Ability>>>Attack>>>Status-effect AttackOnEvent>>>Second Attack with Burn dmg: Ability - Fire KW Attack - No KW Status-effect (AttackOnEvent) - No KW Second Attack - No KW Bonus works for both attacks Ability - No KW Attack - Fire KW Status-effect (AttackOnEvent) - No KW Second Attack - No KW Bonus works for both attacks Ability - No KW Attack - No KW Status-effect (AttackOnEvent) - No KW Second Attack - Fire KW Bonus not work even with Fire KW in AttackFilter section of bonus status-effect So, even with complicated constructions, keywords have strong Parent-Child system. But if Keyword added only in Second attack or status-effect, bonus will not work. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Can u remind me what ability you tested, which don't receives PL bonus from Magran Axe and Chromoprismatic quarterstaff enchants?

I like this idea.

And switching beast forms with shifter. Make sense. After all, we buffed Five Suns Pen to 9 for a reason. So let it be 9, no questions.

Why not 6-7?

Wow wow wow.. Good old days strikes back) Sorry, i just passing trough... My focus is keywords, for now. Keeeeeep talkin'

****((

Hell, guys! Make a sheet with DPS 10 seconds range for each attack type and compare!

In theory, u can hit enemy with Raw dmg and then Overpen with lash - but only in theory. Even without Overpen, overall damage output of some classes will be a little higher (but not too much, and i don't think it will be crucial to win some fights). Most of lashes (if not all) connected to attack as status-effects, so u can see Pen value only in detailed log with Shift key. I don't see a big problem. P.S. You know what's funny? Every time, when we gathering feedback (i did it in february-march 2020) and closing all possible gaps - and thinking we finally closed all - something new is coming.

We can add some base Pen (6-7) to Raw dmg attacks, i think. I’m curious what @MaxQuest think about it.

Yes, i finally understand))

But these lashes are not raw. Eternal Devotion, for example, have no dedicated attack and uses equiped weapon's Pen. Second: all lashes were maded via status-effects (BonusDamageProc type), which doesn't nave Penetration stat at all, so i hardly imagine what we can do. In which case? Name, sister!

Raw damage don't use Penetration stat - it always deals listed damage number to target. That's why you see 0's.

Also a lot of abilities doesn't have a specific keywords, but connected attacks does - this is the cases, when game designers wanted to make an attacks work with immunities and counters, and avoid possible problems with all ability's effects.

I'd mostly agreed. Though, in some cases adding a KW's it's a matter of personal preferences (and i'm fine with that). I wanted to bring attention to be careful with KW's, because in some cases it leads to undesired negative (countering and immunities issues) and positive (OP +PL bonus stacks) effects. A lot of abilities have 2 or more attacks and/or status effects with different damage types (or damage + debuffs), so keywording ability (especially with elemental keywords) may cause issues with immunities or undesired effect countering. So i try to look closely on each ability to see most possible problems. Anyway, if my theory is right, i'll tweak all +PL effects, so individual attacks will gain +PL bonuses from all sources, and we can be more free and specific in adding keywords – if adding a KW to ability can cause troubles, we can add to attack and it will work. I hope, my words sounds clear (it's been a while when i use english last time).

It depends of realization of PowerLevel status-effect. 1 variant: Power Level KW added directly to "KeywordValueID" section. This is how 90+ percent of Power Level status effects were made originally. And i suspect in this case they affect on keyworded ability, but not attack (if ability have no corresponding keywords). 2 variant: Only several status-effect were made by this way - when PowerLevel KW added to "KeywordValueID" section AND "AttackFilter" section. They should give +PL bonus to ability AND attack, even if ability has no corresponding keywords. I need to check it (and for possible double bonus in case if ability AND attack have the same corresponding keywords). Then grab all "StatusEffectType": "PowerLevel" status effects and additionally add KW's into AttackFilter. Original keyword system is a mess: if you receive +PL bonus you'll never know will it work with all abilities/attacks or don't.

True pirat! From Josh Twitter.

I've used mod just a little and don't have a strong opinion too. Waybe it's worth to create a DPS values sheet to compare numbers?

Yes. Only thing we must to do is to "marry" mod with Stag Carnage marker, implemented in Stag Carnage fix. I presume to cut it from fix and add to Noqn mod. I'll take a closer look on this on weekend.

Deal. I doubt that @MaxQuest have any objections. Yes, Max? It's a COMMUNITY Patch after all. I also downloaded and started to use Shields Bash Fix. Only Tuotillo adjustment is questionable: we might gather this shield very early, at lvl. 5-6 and at this moment Tuotilo's Palm looks worse than other bash shields. So i deleted penalties for the moment to play a while without adjustment. Still haven't strong opinion, but maybe penalties is too harsh... don't know.

Speakin of... I'd like to see Carnage and Powder Burns Indicators as part of CP. Great and big job (i was too lazy for this) and a must have QoL mod.

Yes, you are right. In any case, adding Frost kw directly to ability will be bad decision, even with hostile only, because i doubt, that ST was designed to counter anything).

My apologies, you are right. Attack filter is used with immunity status-effects.

It depends on Attack Filter in every status effects – if Attack Filter keyword section is untouched, then all effects are countered. Anyway, i'll do a deep testing session about keywords and it's relationships (parent-child) on this weekend and i'll share my results.

Vanilla ST has no keywords - so there's no to cancel.