Hekate

IIRC, she said that when Exile asks her why she chose Exile specifically as opposed to a different Jedi. so that would put the whole meaning into a very different context. But if it is applied in the broader sense as you have, i'd say Kreia making that statement isn't just about how Yoda's (and by the extention, the Jedi teachings) view is donkey plop but how what she believed is donkey plop too. In essence, that would be her realizing the whole "the Force has a will of its own and it imposes that will onto all which is refered to as destiny" just *is* (ie: causality), and attempting to put an end to that balancing force within the Force is an exercise in futility. Think it has to do with the reoccuring theme of rebirth from destruction the Jedi and Sith (Republic too for that matter. It's been on the brink of destruction for 30 years since KotoR II's end) have to go through. Perhaps it adds the element of falibility and humanity (in the broad sense) in the context of the individual Jedi in contrast to the Jedi Code. I wonder if Exile actually did save the galaxy. If what they (and Kreia & Visas) said about Exile is true about her/him being a wound in the Force that harms the Force, than Exile existing with her/his Force connection intact would indeed put the galaxy into danger. The echoes and all that that he specifically causes continually grow and expand and touch others due to his bonding and connecting... It did sate Exile is more of a siphon (like the cave krystals) rather than a Nihilous-like leech, but there is also the contradictory notion the Sith assassins and the new Sith Lords were created by Exile (which i don't understand at all. I thought it was the the consequences of the act of imploding Malachor V that affected Force sensitives and warped them into these Force leeches ) S/he did kill Nihilous though, so Exile did save the galaxy - or maybe one could say Kreia saved the galaxy by masterminding events leading to Nihilous' destruction Wouldn't that just be sweet, doin' that in a Lucas Empire product... And on plot clarity " Isn't the Sith philosophy pro-Force propaganda too? :ph34r: But i thought hating the Force is like hating that there is, well.. uh, anything in existence other than the vacuum of space. That isn't how i understood what Kreia was after since the question of why would she actively fight Nihilous and prevent him from consuming everything since the death of the Force is the same thing: no Force=no life? It confused me how it was writen in the game; that "death to all" vs. "prevent death to all" paradox in Kreia's philosophy, which is further emphasized with her showing the way to Revan (to fight the "true" Sith) but also then willingly dying (LS Exile) which prevents her from being able to show others, and all that. Mayhap that is the state of opposition Kreia is made to live in since she is betrayal? Oo, especially in 2 with that Padme in the the smelter thing... worst...episode...ever (nod to Xard)

Handmaiden tellin' Exile her name and tellin' him she'll be loyal to him is intentioned to be romantic, i think.. Post Dantooine, Disciple tellin' Exile he stands with her out of his own choice and blah-bidy-blah is intentioned to be romantic as well. But in this game, most of the romance is more indirect. It is hinted at through party cutscenes and dialogue rather than Exile directly talkin' with "person X" about it directly. But there really isn't much going on in that respect. But that the party members interact with their unique perspectives and opinions on romancing with eachother was rather neat. Gave the feeling of them not being in a stupor/in stasis when not runnin' around killin' things with the protagonist.

Which scenes are you talking about? If I am understanding you correctly; Atton flirts with Exile during Peragus but precious little thereafter. During his teaching you to play pazaak (Kreia spawned, not the usual "learn to play pazaak"), he comments on how Exile's mind'll be harder to read because (paraphrasing) "you'll be right here playing pazaak with me". IIRC, he gives Exile medpacks with slightly altered dialogue than with male Exile before Exile goes to the Jek'Jek'Tar. Also, there may be some interesting dialogue if he was the group leader on Dxun, but i'm not sure about that. And there is the comments he makes, which are quite funny, especially when paired up with Mira, when Disciple joins the party . Atton also speaks with Bao-Dur about Exile and in an ode to A New Hope, he asks him if he thinks she and he could... And if Exile had higher influence with Disciple than with Atton, that sets a Mira-Atton scene with a very funny Mira opening line "meditation envy?" Oh, maybe you're asking about how to get Atton to talk with Exile as Revan and Carth or Revan and Bastila could converse. If that is the case, sorry, it ain't happening This game doesn't have that interaction basis. The only time dialogue comes up is with the pazaak teaching, the other pazaak teaching, and with his becoming a Jedi dialogue; eventhough on Peragus he said he'd be happy to tell ya his life story once you are all out of danger (ok, technically when you aren't being chased by assassin droids and Sith assassins). I may be missing a thing or two, but those are what i can remember.

Yup. Thought i had to keep Fighter's and Jediphile's texts together for some reason rather than just split their responses. You're too good to me :D Thanks and good sleep :cool:

I could be mistaken, but I believe the full extent of the romance with Handmaiden is: finding out about her past and parents specifically getting all the info about Atris and Telos as it later pertains to the cutscenes at Telos Jedi Sewers Academy info about her being ranked last Handmaiden and all that (not directly necessary but adds cohesion to the cutscene) asking her her name at least once (again for cohesion) then she, after Telos Jedi Irrigation System Academy plays out, she'll tell you her name and profess her devotion to you. IIRC ( :cool: :ph34r: ) don't think LS/DS has anything to do with it. Not even sure influence has anything to do with it. I played an as dark as dark can get Exile and he was really nasty-wasty to her and had tons of influence with Visas, and she still did the whole devotion thing. He even told her off for being weak and all that too (What a nasty little bugger.) And that is it for Handmaiden. I consider the Visas and Exile (paraphrasing) "I want to look at you and see what Handmaiden sees when her heartbeat quickens..." dialogue to be romance. It's similar in a "final confession" way to KotoR. But KotoR II doesn't have the relationship building the original did. Plus, II was chopped up good (uh...bad) so the stuff they were gonna do went the way of Sleheyron, 'cept that was cut properly "

(w00t) the bliss of enlightenment :cool: Thank you :D I think i misinterpreted your meaning the first time. I thought you meant in an uber-powerful, can do everything, "i'm superman without a kryptonite weakness" type of perfect (not my idea of perfect either). Upon more deliberation, and with Jediphile's response, i realize that i think what you were saying likely is more along the lines of even if Revan was LS at the end of KotoR, Revan would have repeated her/his fall to the DS as a consequence of both the self-sacrifice and losing her/his self specifically because Revan decided to go it alone again rather than draw on Revan's friends' strengths. Is that closer? Agreed. I'd prefer Revan to be DS in K3 so that if he was LS in K1, then there is something you can appeal and redeem him with, whereas if he turned DS, then he killed his friends and cannot come back to the light side. That way the choice of K1 remains, even if it means you have kill Revan yourself. I pictured Revan, if LS, on the brink of losing it when her/his friends finally get their acts together to go save and then join Revan. That just felt more natural/in character for Revan's friends. And that Revan didn't lose her/his self completely yet was a testament to the inner strength s/he found as a result of embracing love (friendship and/or romantic) as opposed to turning DS because of Kreia's ideology of love, bonds (non-Force), caring, etc.. are weakness. But your idea, that Revan even if LS at the end of KotoR would be corrupted by the time KotoR II rolls in and s/he can only be redeemed through the friendships/loves formed during KotoR is fraken incredible! (w00t) I was wondering the exact same thing. Obviously they have had their act together and been plotting in a cohesive and long-term manner for quite some time. And it is enough of a unified threat to get Revan to leave what s/he built behind. For those reasons i find the typical "Sith plotting to overthrow eachother" scenario unlikely. If the Korriban academy couldn't hold itself together after losing Uthar and Yuthura, i doubt those type of power struggles among the "true" Sith would allow for a sustained campaign platform to be carried out over political turmoil and strife. They devisd a long term strategy with trying to weaken the galaxy over a period of at least 30 years. Unless, of course, they just like messing with the Republic's head and do it for fun without an underlying method to their madness. Yup. Yer right. Unless the game gives a rather long and detailed character history in a quasi "this is your life" way, or makes the player character/protagonist young (ie: includes noephyte padawans), can't see how they'd get around the amnesia, or as in Exiles' case (from the gamer's perspective) clueless about her/his own personal history just live with it syndrome. Darque, could you save me again and tell me how to do the part where i needed to colour my text in black since it was between two consequtive linked response texts? Or is inserting such responces between earlier posts bad etiquette/against the rules? Or am i just being a paranoid weirdo?

If the post gets to be too long, the quotation bit stops working. I advice less text or else to cut it into more posts. Gasp! I thought that is a definite no-no. With things like "double posters should die" in tags (whatever the bottom personalized bit thingie is called) and this spamming thing (is that what it is called? Making multiple posts rather than one long one) being bad things, i thought i had to put it all into one post. Yes and no... IMHO it's just Kreia sees it all from her own perspective. You know: "Many of the truths that we cling to, depend greatly on our own point of view." i think we are agreeing on this point :ph34r: Sorry, but that doesn't add up for me, since at the time Revan makes his LS/DS choice, he has no recollection of the threat of the true Sith - whether LS or DS, K2 consistently puts Revan's recollection of that threat a year after the events of K1, so that cannot be why he turned evil again. And in Kreia having added that new sub-text to Revan and to KotoR; in my fishing for deeper meaning expedition; i think it matters at what point Revan chooses the DS in KotoR. As the game was originally (1 shot release - if what i read was true) intended, than if Revan is DS from the get-go, than Revan is DS for the sake of playing DS (just as LS is for the sake of playing LS). Meaning gets infused into the DS (and LS come to think of it) choice on the Leviathan and on the Rakata homeworld (character evolution sense. Not slagging DS/LS choices). So, with KotoR in a vacuum, Revan's personality and ethos (free of the pre-near-death persona) emerged regardless of what had transpired in the past and what will transpire in the future. But, with taking KotoR out of the vacuum and adding KotoR II's revelations, this is where "the plot thickens". Assuming Revan did not recollect anyting about her/his past up until the point of seeking out "the menace", the answers to why is Revan a DSer boil down to A) fate (is Revan destined to be the one to save the galaxy and has to pay the price of her/his soul in order to do it?) B) what is "hardwired" into Revan's psyche (ie: is Revan, even with the reprogramming done by the Jedi, still programmed at her/his core to be able to do what is neccesary to save the galaxy?) C) that is just Revan's new personality. The fact that Revan later remembers, even a year hence, indicates that stuff - what is left of it - is still floatin' around in her/his subconscious. S/he can't yet piece it together nor access most of it yet, but that intuitive knowledge should still be there. So, yes, Revan could at the end of KotoR be a unilateral-reasoned DSer (self-gratification, fear of loss of self =need for power, whatever...), or Revan could be a rooted in her/his psyche and/or fate DSer. However; assuming Revan was able to remember more (as was kinda in a way hinted at albeit very subltely with the DS options of speech "I am the Dark Lord. Bow down to me" and all that DS Bastila talk (reclaim rightful position etc..) than the possibility of Revan having tactically re-made the choice to save the galaxy by conquering it becomes plausible. I thought in the cutscenes that was hinted at; that Revan had more up her/his sleeve and letting Bastila fall into the Malak trap which she is just jumpin' into with all she's got. And that brings me to the connecting point of the earlier point of how Revan's party affected her/him and her/his personal growth and aquiring her/his henceforth lacking humanity. I think it is possible (though indicative of deep-rooted problems ), Revan could have intentionally as a DSer decided to kill all those s/he formed attatchments to as the first step in being able to walk down the Kreia interpretation path again. Sacrifice rather than fall... " If you're right, it'll be interesting to see. But I think it's more likely we'll see a a game that ends in a great conflict where the true Sith try to conquer the republic. Just my two credits... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> crap Still can't make the quote thing work so I'm gonna try putting in a different coloured text within the grey ...finally...got...something...right (w00t)

Could you please tell me more details about this? I played as a female 3 times and nothing like this ever came up... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well...they didn't exactly get into a "dogfight" (which isn't a fight between two males but rather a fight in the air). There was simply friction between the two. Atton would constantly shove Disciple off, etc. They were supposed to get into an actual fight at Malachor but I don't want to have to go into what happened there... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Oh. Did get the friction part and the differential between cueing the Mira "meditation envy?" scene. I was wondering about the "& I chose Atton" comment. I interpreted it as an in game choice.

Could you please tell me more details about this? I played as a female 3 times and nothing like this ever came up...

As previously stated: -the containers tagged with "empty" -options with avatar AI (ie: ranged, grenadier, etc had it actually worked...) -better use made of skills -rapid weapons swithching (should have had 3 in my opinion) -the concept of influence (not well executed at all. Not even the Force leech/leader aspect could explain that ridiculously implausible companions abandoning their core beliefs thing) -the element of depth and philosophy Kreia added to the game (wish there was better consistency with the content and plot) -the party members being atypical archetypes. Though again, sadly, they faltered and were too inconsistant and resorted to archetypes -the party members interacting during "off" times (did miss the KotoR type dialogues though) -being able to turn companions into Jedi and how the plot made that possible (though just a "poof? you're a Jedi!" was kinda... lacking) -amour allowing Force Power use -the workbench and customizable armour, lightsabers, and other weapons -made T3-M4 have a personality -variation afforded by prestige classes my own: -getting into further detail about Revan in a way that really added depth and complexity -seeing admiral Onasi and his talking with the exile for both LS fe/male, and Bastila but she shoulda been there with LS female too IMHO -expanded and surprise Jedi powers and abilities (ie: breath control - had it worked consistently rather than what happened in that annoying Iziz security room) -stealth run -being able to learn things from party members both Force and mundane -broader view on screen (ie: being able to look around more in both 1st & 3rd person views) made it feel less clausterphobic than KotoR -having to spend time as other party members (but dialogue options should have reflected the speaker better) -Bao-Dur: meaningful tie to the past, how he was acted very uniquely in contrast to the typical, how he keeps his cool and tries to do good even with his underlying rage -Atton being unstable and to paraphrase how Kreia put it "that fool dances in your shadow to gain your favour". He is the only one i can see for whom the influence system had purpose. -party members' special/unique abilities ie: Mira's point guard etc... -having party members' skills and abilities come into play

see notes below to distingush between our texts - sorry

In my experience, to not have Dustil killed requires in the second Revan dialogue option to tell Dustil (paraphrasing) "Relax Dustil. Carth is just trying to protect you" or someting similar, and then Carth's dialogue with Dustil goes quite differently and it leads to a mini-side quest. No persuade roll required. I never tried having Juhani come into the academy on Korriban. Thanks for the tip. Also, he speaks Twi'lek speak (?) because he hails from the Sith controled region of space and they don't speak Galactic Basic (is that the right name?) and use Twi'lek as their base trade language instead. Who'd a thunk the Sith tease eachother because of accents? Just wondering if you tried having Jolee and Mandalore together, or Carth and Zaalbar on Korriban also before getting into the academy, and Lashowe harasses the protagonist and you have the option of amusing her by telling her a joke (for Revan to pull it off, a persuade roll is required). I found their reactions to be quite funny I think meeting them gets triggered by finishing certain plot points. Meeting Carth's buddy Jordo (his name i remember " ) occurs after finding the second Star Map. So it doesn't require finishing the dialogue tree ('cause some of 'em don't finish until the "Unknown Planet"). i could be wrong, but that is the conclusion i have drawn based on my experience.

First, i found the protagonist has to enter the Ebon Hawk to cue Jolee's next dialogue options when he has nothing else to say because "you need more experience". So going out and back in may help with cueing his next talk. As far as reaching the point in the conversation tree wherein he is reluctant to speak of the Exar Kun wars and by extention his wife, i recall there being a persuade check necessary. Something akin to "[persuade] There is no time like the present?". Prior to that (i think it is before anyway) there is a point where he grumpily states "Kids are bored by history, proven fact" and the protagonist has to say something akin to "yeah, well old people love to talk about history, proven fact" and that should also get him to converse. EDIT:Forgot to add that Nomi Sunrider wasn't Jolee's wife. She is a Jedi he states the protagonist reminds him of. Can't remember his wife's name off hand. EDIT #2: i think Jolee is alot older than 60. When he spoke of "Engine sucking Andor", he stated it changed the political fabric of the galaxy for centuries to come. Not saying he is centuries old, but the fact no one had even heard of the species (damn! Can't remember their name either :"> ) would indicate a significant amount of time has passed since that event.

Guess i missed alot of stuff in this game 'cause there really wasn't anything going on with LS nor DS female and Atton at all. In the first run through, i didn't know anyting and followed through with making Disciple a Jedi and got the one extra Atton-Mira scene where she chimes in "meditation envy?" and that was it. i read in a walkthrough that at the end, right after Dantooine and finding out about being the hole in Force and all that, the lead romantic interest is supposed to chat with the Exlie. No matter what i did, no matter how much influence i intentionally lost with him, i always got Disciple to have the converstation with. My DS character - burning hellfire and all - had him pushed to sparkly light side, but to my dismay, alas, Disciple/Michal was always the only gentleman caller What a bummer. Anyone get any of the other, either Bao-Dur or Atton?

Uh, have the Xbox version so i can't tell at all what is going on based on the mod stuff. Could someone please give ma a quick run down of the Carth romance thing and the Revan dies on the Star Forge thing? Those really interest me. Also, mention was made earlier about male Revan and Bastilla able to kiss.... (w00t) what?!? i've played the game through at least twice as LS male and i never came acroos that! Could someone direct me on that please? EDIT: thanks Jediphile

Oh do i ever hear you on that one! It was worse in KotoR than in II 'cause in II one could at least look around a bit more, but yikes! It was painful!

Wasn't the whole point of KotoR the BioWare staff taking the things they liked best from the movies and came up with a game that was similar feeling (an ode to almost i would think)? i read it somewhere, i think on the Obsidian website, can't remember where, that Obsidian did the same thing, and used KotoR as a springboard for KotoR II. Could be wrong... But i think that the KotoRs being cliches is pretty much a given, if ithey were developed and writen from that standpoint. Having said that, i'm not sure i agree entirely with the applying in practice the concept of KotoR being cliched. i guess i should first state i haven't played any other Star Wars titles since i don't like first person shooters, nor do i like hack'n'slash mentality games. Which i knows begs the question of why in the world do i play RPGs at all? but leaving that little logic hole aside... here are some reasons why: Tattooine felt very different to me than "Luke's" Tattooine, and moreso than "Anakin's" Tattooine. Sure, its still Tattooine, but it had an entirely different atmosphere about it. In essence it was still controlled by "undesireables" (Czerka rather than Hutts) but it felt more like a run down mining town built on the ruins of previous commercial settlements than a bustling and affluent enough city. I'll shorten this with making statements more broad in their scope. That eventhough there are repetitions of various themes from various different sources; i found alot of similarities to Baldur's Gate Shadows of Amn for instance, even down to the music of Manaan; they made it unique enough to that time frame and those people that it felt familiar yet also different and new. I kinda thought it was neat how they put intersting spins on revisited material. That goes for the situations as well as places. Yeah, the Star Forge is that era's Death Star, as i think it was meant to be. I also think the point of history repeating itself, especially when dealing with rather unchanging codes of ethics and in philosophies (be they Sith or Jedi) eventhough the people and power levels may change, the cosmic drama they enact and re-enact does not. And that speaks to a fundamental core of humanity (Jawadom? Ithorianess? and so on) A few points on character cliche; i really don't see how Bastila is like C3-P0, at all. Not only in the human vs. droid respect, rather in the personality, affect as a character in the work, how she interacts with Revan, nor any other ways. I'd like to hear your ideas on where the similarity lies. Next, is Carth. I know a lot of people don't like him and feel he is whiny (which i happen to really strongly disagree with :ph34r: ), but i can't see him as a Han Solo type. Nor do i see how he is a Lando. Carth, other than being messed-up by his past and focusing too intently for his own good on getting revenge, is quite certain of who he is, where his loyalties and morals lie, and what paths he is and is not willing to walk. Both Han and Lando needed a push-comes-to-shove event for them both to be able to make those decissions. Han was actually changing as a person because of his hooking up with Luke and Leia. Lando had to have his ethics line pushed quite far (not to mention being threatened by Darth Vader himself) in order for him to find where he draws his line in the sand. Carth was pretty much Carth through it all with his own moral fibre quite unambiguous, and he didn't change who he is , not even when everything went to hell in a handbasket (ie Revan LS female who kept up her conversations with him amicably enough to reach the confessing his love point and then *bam*! She turns dark side. But he still did the Carth thing to do and did not betray the Republic remaining true to himself and attempt to save Revan from herself) Yeah, there is the 2 droids cliche, but that was effectively devastated with T3-M4 not having any personality. HK-47 ain't anything like C3-P0. In KotoR II where T3 raz-es Atton, that is much more R2-D2ish. But i can't find the C3-P0 counterpart. Oh, and the point of Revan being like Anakin, i'm not sure where i lie with that one. I can see it a bit, but i think the difference between them, assuming again Kreia was being honest (very clever that one giving ambiguous answers such as Exile: "do you know so-and-so?" to which Kreia answers: "not a one" Hee, hee, hee ) of Revan actively making the choice to sell her/his soul in order to save the galaxy is quite different from Anakin's fall because of his own shortcomings. 'nuff said

Don't yet know how to take direct quotes from other posters so my paraphreasing will have to do for now... the statement of "it would be nice to have the last save from KotoR go on to KotoR II" would be neat, but i see problems with it. Namely, for those who have played the game through more than once, it could choose the wrong storyline unless the player manually decided which save game KotoR II would read, so i think it is easier to just answer a few questions than to depend on the game getting it right. Also, i don't think (i could be wrong about this..) the Xbox is capable of "thinking" in that way as a pc is. About your second point regarding force jumps, yeah, it would be great. I had great fun watching Bao-Dur fly through the air to meet an opponent. :D They are using telekinesis anyway, so why can't they do height differentials and all that? But i think that comes down to the inner workings of the game programming. I've noticed in a lot of games, everything has difficulty on an axis other than the straight x-y (ie with bodies laying partially in the ground or in walls and such).

i am also a slowpoke and like to try every option i can. i also play simultaneous games as light side and dark side. KotoR took about 50 + hours the first time. KotoR II took longer because i was quite confused trying to figure out the influence things. I'd say closer to70. All i can say is thank goodness for good walkthroughs, or i'd have been completely lost with KotoR II

It seems to me there are technical game reasons vs. story and character driven reasons. So here is my thought on each technical game reasons: if i was playing a consular/guardian, it would be Bao-Dur, at least until his skill levels for the workbench were high enough to not have the party lose out on making good use of the bech. He is more difficult to keep out of harm's way without the Jedi robes, but i found it didn't cause that big of a problem when those who could heal were in the party, or use life-support packs. i liked having him come flying into the fray right as stealthed characters were back-stabbing. Other than that, i can see no benefit to not upgrading any of them into being Jedi, although with Disciple, i'd level him up as a soldier for a bit until i got whatever feats i wanted him to have since consulars go up in feats levels slowly. Atton, i'd level up as soon as i possibly could since he only gains as a sentinel with the addition of force powers. story/character reasons: it would have to be Atton. He is just too unstable and has gone thorough enough with the Jedi hunting and all that. Also, with his personality and behaviour changing so much depending on the Exile, he wouldn't make a good Jedi. But a loose cannon insane Sith... now that is a different story story wise, i feel the rest of them have good reasons to become Jedi regardless of whether they are liked or disliked (i found Disciple creepy too - he was way too "forced Harlequin" - scarry

Hi, i'm new to responding although i have read all the posts i could find - i am not a computer friend- anyway, felt i had to add my two cents: -first; i completely diagree Revan has to nor should be dark sided post KotoR after playing KotorR II.(This will be a bit of a longer exploration to explain what i am trying to say) If it wasn't for all the fletching out the backgroung story with Kreia about Revan's ture purpose, why s/he turned to the dark side in the first place; Revan's alignment wouldn't really matter, Revan wouldn't really matter. But since such a rich, complex, and detailed layering was added to Revan as a person through uncovering her/his history, suddenly Revan's alignment matters, alot. (personally, i find the notion of Revan being light-sided in a KotoR III more compelling than a dark-sided Revan, making her/his experiences and personal relationships from KotoR (I) having changed Revan and allowed her/him to grow as a person and make KotoR's cast more significant and make the whole RPG experience more fulfilling. Not that Revan bing dark-sided isn't good as well, even with her/him being free of typical Jedi restraints s/he chose to walk the dark path..) The reason the story is so compelling and carries a resounding significance is because of the more personal aspect of Revan, how the new Revan (ie since her/his memory loss due to near death etc.. in KotoR) developed independantly of her/his upbringing being raised as a Jedi, and being free of the constraints of the Jedi Code and all that comes along with it. Also later through KotoR II, we find out s/he is also free of Kreia and all the other influences previously unknown to the player. KotoR (I) was a stand alone story wherein "all was resolved" if one played light side; the Rep was saved, Revan was redeemed, and the galaxy could start healing from the Mandalorian Wars and the up-until-now unnamed Jedi Civil War which ended with the destruction of the Star Forge and the death of Malak who was the only person strong enough to lead these "not true" Sith. Dark sided Revan; however; was an entirely different story. The "not true" Sith were strenghtened with Revan's retrun, the Republic had lost a very large and important part of its fleet, and the futrue looked very grim...It isn't until KotoR II the resolution to what happens and how did the Republic survive get answered. For even if Revan chose the dark side path, even if s/he hadn't had any memories of why s/he became evil before the events of KotoR, it became clear Revan, even if personally evil in her/his disposition and choices, still believs the galaxy is worth protecting and dying for. I was quite impressed with how KotoR II managed to have both light and dark side possibilities come together in a plausible manner and add such an intence and deep underlayer to KotoR (I). Sure, it lacked a bit with details, but so what? It was good enough. Not only that, with KotoR II, suddenly a whole lot of proviously uncovered depth was revealed about KotoR (I), and i felt that made the first game even better.(Sorry for the redundancy) Which ties in to my previous point; it is through KotoR II that KotoR's depth was revealed, that Revan choosing light or dark became more relevant, that the romantic interests and other side characters became so important and pivotal to KotoR, and as an extention, to Revan and thus the outcome of if the galaxy will be able to survive a "true" Sith onslaught. Revan made the choice (assuming Kreia was telling the truth in her pre-death revelations) as a Jedi to, in essence, sacrifice her/his soul to walk the dark path, the path of personal corruption, with the intent of gaining enough power to unite the galaxy against the "true" Sith menace. So the really compelling question becomes, did Revan make the same decision s/he did before and chose to give-up her/his soul in order to try to fight the big bad on its way, or did Revan change and grow and ultimately chose self-sacrifice in giving-up the promise of love, friendship, happiness, and all that in order to fight the big bad. It makes a huge and significant difference as a reflection on KotoR and KotoR II, and i think is a very important aspect of the potential KotoR III. -second; i think if there is a KotoR III, it has to be the continuation of the story. I don't see the point in maintaining the title if it doesn't. I feel the story of KotoR and KotoR II are excellent (although KotoR II undoubltedly required more work, more cohesion and consistency, and even if left open for a KotoR III, more of an ending) and require a conclusion. Who can be satisfied with the looming question, which incidentally is a mirror of KotoR's end question (or maybe not incedentally..), how does the Republic (and the galaxy) survive the Sith onslaught? As well, since the one element which binds the two stories together is Revan, what comes of her/him in her/his struggle against the Sith? and the next logical question is how does Exile fare? Then the questions about their friends/followers ensue as well. -third; as far as plot and such for a KotoR III go, my thoughts are varied as to what i would like to see. But there are certain things i think need to be in the 3rd installment. The most obvious is, (and i have no clue how they'd pull this off...) the "true" Sith's empire in the Unknown Regions, their ideological war, how Revan and Exile are fighting them without machines and this crude matter and without support, how Revan and Exile find eachother "out there", what the left behind allies/followers/friends/loves are doing to help out from the periphery - and if they can actually stay behind. I think Carth, especially if Revan is light side female, would, using his status and power as an admiral, gather the band and go to search for Revan. It also makes sense in his connection to and having actually met with Exile, he would know how to contact her/his allies. Carth did tell the Exile (if Revan was light side male) he thinks Revan failed at his attempt to put a stop to whatever it was he had started. So there is what i would like the next installment to be. The old gang from KotoR and KotoR II going off to find, then save, then join Revan and the Exile in fighting the good fight. Now, before i get told off, i know it would be an enormous task to program all that for all the KotoR light and dark side possibilities, and even more so with KotoR II's myriad of influence affects on top of the light and dark side choices. That is why i stated i haven't a clue how that could be pulled off. But to me, that makes the most sense. It began with Revan, the catalyst for all of this, representing the individual's struggle and being the metaphorical representation of the psyche, the personal. It continued on with Exile, the metaphorical representation of the left over Jedi and the inevitable destiny of all "true Jedi" (for lack of better wording) having to fight the dark menace. So the third should be the battle against this darkness. From the personal and psychological perspective which was told through Revan, the physical and sided (ie Jedi, soldier, war, etc..) perspective which was told through Exile, and bringing them together. Of course there are alot of ideas and possibilities in what could be done and how to do it, but in essence, methinks the continuation of the story is what needs to be told. :ph34r: