alanschu

Turn off autorun.

He's not a gameplayer or anything, and we've gone a bit our separate ways with respect to he's still a Mac man, and I moved to the PC (for gaming). But it is fun talking with him about computers, that is for sure

It wasn't a TRS-80, but a Kaypro II:

I don't recall the original being all that unoptimized.

Yeah that's it..You figured me out. I am soooo old. I am a full 27 years old! More likely, I think it is the newbies that never played any of the PnP versions of previous incarnations that get into 3rd edition and praise it just because that is the only thing they know. You can't blame them, though, they just don't know any better. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you're too dense to understand that my "oldies" comment had nothing to do with actual age, then I guess that explains a lot. Funny thing is, right afterwards you reaffirm the point I made, and you quoted. AD&D may be better (at least in your mind), but don't even think about comparing its "intuitiveness." Especially not with your OWN experiences. You had already had experience playing the previous versions. A new version that is different is naturally going to seem less intuitive to someone that is intricately familiar with a previous version. Take two people that have never played either version (or even seen D&D), and all else being equal, I guarantee that the guy playing 3rd Edition will be able to figure out way more stuff on his own, without much coaching at all. It doesn't matter if you found it less intuitive....your expectations were already tainted the second you picked up a previous version of D&D.

Pretty bad when the basic AD&D rules aren't as simple. eh..No. I found Baldur's Gate much easier to learn than Neverwinter Nights. Even with BG being party-based and NWN being with one PC. Regardless, playing a CRPG is not the same as playing PnP. The computer handles AoO for you. Honestly, have you ever GMed/played both tabletop 2ndEd and 3e? You get brownie points if you have GMed/played Basic D&D. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Probably not much of a surprise you found BG easier to learn, given how much knowledge you seem to have had about the 2nd edition rules. I'm talking about getting my friends, that have zero D&D knowledge, to play the game. It's not much of a stretch that people that played tons of AD&D found a game based around AD&D more intuitive. Which is exactly what I tried to highlight in an earlier post. Also, I was under the impression that we were talking about CRPG games. I've exceptionally little experience in either game, PnP, because they don't particularly interest me. The explanations I was talking about were explaining people to play CRPGs based on D&D. Not one person I have ever explained BG2 or PS:T to has ever NOT said "That seems dumb" when explaining that better armor decreases your armor class and bonuses to your weapons decrease your THAC0.

Yeah. Considering I don't think you could legitmately use a memorized level 9 spell (just from scrolls) in BG2 due to level constraints, it's not really an issue.

Hmmm, you know....I think my Dad overclocked a TRS-80 back in the day....I'll ask him and make sure

You were the one worrying about your memories being tainted. If playing a bad game in a series taints your memories of previous, excellent games, then I guess that's your loss. I still love Ultima VII despite the dung that was Ultima 8 and Ultima 9. And I still love Fallout 1 & 2 despite all the spinoff games that came out. Appreciate the games for what they are...not for the games that come after it.

Fallout 3 isn't your game. And since you have never played it, you won't have any memories of it. Actually, if you're talking about the timeframe of Ultima Underworld, then FP did not dominate over the Top-Down perspective. Two games made by the same company (Ultima 6 and 7) came out just before and just after Ultima Underworld and were definitively top-down. You'd also have to ignore every other JRPG out there (which was a time long before anyone disputed whether or not they were "true" RPGs...so don't go playing that card). When Ultima Underworld came out it was a decided different approach to game design for Origin in recent years.

I think that that has a lot to do with it. Because a lot of the "oldies" were used to it, they see it as inferior. And because all the nuances made sense to them with all of their experiences, they'd find it less intuitive as well. Few people like change, especially if it's with a system they like.

I've done that before. And I'm pretty sure, in very rare circumstances, the board itself misplaces threads. I've had posts that were replies in a different thread, complete with quotes and everything, end up in a different thread before. I've only had it happen to me twice on this board though.

Just to get my two cents worth: 2nd Edition = more bulky than 3rd Edition. I've had an infinitely easier time getting people to understand the rules of a CRPG based on 3rd Edition rather than AD&D. I mean, that +1 bonus with your sword lowers your THAC0 by one. Talk about intuitive. And the bizarre saving throws, which despite my many times of playing BG and BG2 I never really fully understood, was crystal clear. If you get an item that provides a -1 to THAC0, among other goodies, is it a compromise to the other nice abilities making you think about using it, since you'll hit less often? Or is it just another buff? -1 to THAC0 is nice, but often when stated like that it means a penalty. Not to mention that better armor provides you with less Armor Class?? I guess less is more! Sure, after you get used to all these rules it's no problem. But if anyone claims that they made perfect sense out of all this their first time looking at AD&D rules, I say they are lying. There is nothing intuitive about an INCREASE in Armor providing a LOWER number. It might seem that way to us now...but that's only because we're used to it. Show two people that have zero familiarity with D&D, and all other things being equal, I guarantee the 3rd edition player will grasp things quickly...especially if not being coached by someone.

Wouldn't "balanced" mean appropriate challenges for the current PC? Or more commonly that no classes have large advantages/disadvantages over others? I've never seen balanced apply to level progression.

Still have to do a Nosferatu playthrough. I'll flip a coin to see if I do that or Brujah on my next time through.

Meh. I guess I'll chill at my Santa Monica pad! It was more homey anyways.

Well, I just investigated the Elizabeth Dane. Lacroix wants me to check out the mansion now, which I believe is my first encounter with "those" things. Maybe not.....I can't really remember to be honest. I thought I had to go to Hollywood first for that. I'm a Malkavian Female, and it was fun "seducing" the dude for the Astrolite. And their responses are totally off the wall. I was able to get the warehouse without being detected (thank you obsfuscate), as well as the dane (again, thanks obfuscate). I was being a jerk to Lacroix at one point, and it was funny when he used Domination on me. Though I haven't received the skyline apartment....maybe because I was too big of a jerk?

They don't seem to be, given that all of them seem to be unfun to you.

As indicated by the song lyric thread.

No, this statement was the only thing that put me in a "foul mood." I actually missed the game because I was at a Bioware games night "

Ok, sent requests to you, nickiepoo, and bigbottom.

Maybe you won't start off in a wierd village if you are a duergar.

Those things were pretty creepy that's for sure. I'm about to sit down and play for a bit, but I'm still a ways away from them.

OK, I have xfire. Now what?

Was that a deliberate attempt to troll given that you know that at least two Oiler fans frequent this thread?