MaxQuest

It still stacks in v3.05 You can test it in the following manner: - A. hit an enemy once, and count the amount of ticks (red numbers over enemy heads; you can use fraps for that) - B. hit an enemy twice (in quick succession), and count the amount of ticks - make sure that in each case DoT had same duration. (easiest way just set your perception to 300+ via console) - compare the amount of ticks in A and B. It will be B = 2 * A. So no ticks are lost, and it means wounding completely stacks.

Wounding lash uses pre-DR damage. It takes 25% of it. And multiplies by (1 + mig_coefficient).

If you dual-wield - you don't get the recovery penalty for using single weapon. If you use one-handed weapon with no shield - you get 12 bonus acc. If you use two-handed melee weapon - you get the indirect benefit of having higher base damage

Botep clearly wins over Tidefall when used by a cipher. Because wounding does not generate focus. So it is [5DR pen + speed] vs [dual damaging type]. For a character of other class, Tidefall might get an upper hand, especially when used vs high DR enemies. The question is - who that would be. We need a martial (i.e. who deals most of his damage via phys attacks) char who has high Might, preferably below-average Intellect, who has primary and not full attacks and also has some recovery reducing talents. If knockdown and charge were primary attacks, I'd say it's great for fighter. If swift aim wasn't suppressed, it would be literally perfect for a melee ranger. Remains barbarian, who dual-wields while performing Barbaric Blow and HoF, and once Bloodlust kicks-in can switch to Tidefall if there are any high-DR enemies remaining. Ofc priest of Berath with Tidefall + Minor Avatar can also sound nice, since he can buff his might to the roof. But, if a priest uses Minor Avatar it is probably because it's hammer casting time. So he will be busy tossing those buffs and Shinning Beacons, instead of swinging the weapon.

Oh snap, we forgot about Frermàs mes Canc Suolias)

General - yes. From dps point of view: - Dual-wielding is favoured when your character has many full-attack abilities: Knockdown, FoD, Rogue Strikes, Barbaric Blow, HoF. Plus DW can achieve zero-recovery earlier. Although Barbarian (with maxed Mig/Int) can also make great use of Tidefall, due to wounding DoT. - 2H (with speed) is favored for late game dps on characters who use auto or primary attacks. Notably cipher can respec in the late game from DW to a 2H build. Plus he has bonus 0.4 dmg coefficient which scales nicely with extra base damage. - While 2H weapons (without speed) are mostly used for utility and effects they provide (Redeemer, Abydon's Hammer, Tall Grass, etc) Yeap. This is how 2H vs DW compare once you have achieved zero recovery: spreadsheet Bittercut gets outclassed against even DR, although it still keeps the benefit of dual damaging type.

My favorite are Darcozzi and Kind Wayfarer. Darcozzi because: - you get extra acc stackable with everything, which maybe quite important when in need to land a cc on a boss, or crit with a DoT. - if you go for a Darcozzi tank, you can ignore FoD completely, and basically save two talents immediately (FoD and it's upgrade). Kind Wayfarer because: - of extra healing duh. I'd also like to mention the talents that I find underwhelming: - The Black Path: quite many enemies are immune to frightened. Also it requires the paladin to take the kill, and if you have many specialized dps'ers in party the chance for it lowers. If he misses the opportunity to kill his first engager, the moment when party can benefit from enemies getting lower acc, is quite delayed. - Fires of Darcozzi Palace - the damage is too low. - Enduring Flames - afaik that is a fixed DoT and intellect reduces it's dps. Moreover because it is a non-raw DoT, Int reduces even total damage as the number of ticks increases, and more of it is eaten by DR. - Shielding Touch - oh common.

Good question. The most important thing is: recovery reducing effects are very weak, while there is only 1 of them. Yet they provide a very, very sensible benefit when they start to pile on. For example, let's take warbow: 5 frames (delay) + 45 frames (attack) + 75 frames (recovery) = 125 frames. If you equip only gauntlets of swift action (15%): 5 + 45 + 63.75 = 113.75 (or just a x1.09 action duration reduction) If you only used DAoM (50%): 5 + 45 + 37.5 = 87.5 (or just a x1.42 action duration reduction) On the other hand, if you amassed enough effects, especially from the same category (since they multiply), you could have: DAoM + Durganized Weapon + Gloves: 5 + 45 + 0 = 50 (or a x2.50 action duration reduction; or a x2.50 increase in dps) Another interesting thing, is that estoc and dw stilettos are amazing for heavy armored character, early in the game. See spreadsheet. And plate armor is especially good early as well. You have probably missread)Armor penalty only affects recovery duration. Reloading is the same, be your character naked or encased in plate. Imagine a 10 dex character: naked arquebus: 5 + 45 + 75 + 204 = 329 naked warbow : 5 + 45 + 75 = 125 plate arquebus: 5 + 45 + 112.5 + 204 = 366.5 plate warbow : 5 + 45 + 112.5 = 162.5Plate has increased action duration for warbow: 125 -> 162.5 (by 30%)Plate has increased action duration for arquebus: 329 -> 366.5 (by 11.3%) So generally, from auto-attack dps point of view your gunners don't lose that much from wearing heavy armor. Still through, it depends on what niche does a character fill in your party. For example I had a fire priest with an arquebus, but still used robe, because: - I wanted faster buffing - I was using that moon godlike as a bait for shades. (placing her closer to frontline than other squeshies, and setting the def/dr to be the lowest in my party). From pure auto-dps perspective, I think a flail + Larder Door would be better than a flail + non bashing shield, early on before you are able to enchant weapon quality and lash.Otherwise it all comes to what proc a shield has. Badgradr's Barricade has a natural synergy with deathblows rogue. Dragon's Maw Shield has synergy with carnage. 25% chance to cast Taste of the Hunt on Hit or Critical Hit - would be a 25% for a 55.8 dmg dot (@18 mig, 20 int); or, assuming it stacks with itself: 14 raw dmg per hit/crit. So consider that a bash attack for such barbarian inflicts: 1.24 * [13-18] + 14 (if taste of the hunt stacks with itself). Although main hand will attack slower, as it will be affected by single-weapon-penalty. And dual-bittercuts with corrode enchant / spirit of decay, would still out-dps it. The plus of dual-wielding is that you can achieve zero-recovery earlier in the game. And at that moment DW is quite ahead. Although later, two-handlers with speed enchant start to catch up. Especially Blade of the Endless Paths. If you have a quick-switching gunner, or a a character who after unleashing a few full attacks switches to supporting; it is not that necessary.But for a character focused on auto-attacking, like interrupt barbarian, blasting wizard, stormcaller ranger and especially cipher, it is indeed very important. Being able to increase your dps by x2.5 is huge. Dual-wielding Lady of the Pain due to Armored Grace + Outlander's Frenzy / Sanguine Plate proc. Without frenzy it could be: Dual-wielding ranger with Swift Aim. Dual-Wielding monk with Swift Strikes. In any case you want gauntlets of swift action and durgan enchants asap. Hmm. I've forgot about it.But I am 99% sure it will have same behaviour/suppression as Vielo Vidorio. Same thing happens.As JerekKruger already said "+x% Attack Speed" only affects recovery duration. Look: Hunting Bow (no speed): 5 (delay) + 30 (attack) + 50 (recovery) = 85 War Bow (no speed): 5 (delay) + 45 (attack) + 75 (recovery) = 125 Arbalest (no speed): 5 (delay) + 45 (attack) + 75 (recovery) + 180 (reloading) = 305 Hunting Bow (with speed): 5 (delay) + 30 (attack) + 40 (recovery) = 75 (13.3% action duration reduction) War Bow (with speed): 5 (delay) + 45 (attack) + 60 (recovery) = 110 (13.6% action duration reduction) Arbalest (with speed): 5 (delay) + 45 (attack) + 60 (recovery) + 180 (reloading) = 290 (5% action duration reduction) A Kind Wayfarer will use FoD a lot. Since it is a primary attack, 2H is not optimal.For a melee KW it is either DW sabres or [strike Hard + Shatterstar / Godansthunyr] or [Rimecutter + Wē Toki]. While a ranged KW would: - either opt for Dulcanale. If it is an aumaua, quick switching pistols could be an option. - or stack penetration stuff (vambraces + penetrating shot + wizard's Expose Vulnerabilities) and use blunderbusses. A melee Darcozzi imho is best used as a support or main tank. No FoD. Outwarn Buckler + Shame or Glory / Marking Cladhaliath / Strike Hard. A ranged Darcozzi would love Pliambo per Casitàs. 2 FoD uses plus Runner's Wounding Shot. You emphasize on alpha strike and providing extra acc to the party. Which one out of these four to use, depends on your party composition. Note-worthy is KW synergy with a chanter: - it is easier to finish enemies gradually reduced to low-hp by Dragon Thrashed. - Mercy and Kindness Followed Where'er She Walked, amplifies healing done by paladin as well. - Aefyllath + FoD + Scion of Flame. Shortly speaking: - Wayfarer is best suited for sturdy parties that gradually bring enemies down - While Darcozzi is best suited for low-hp and crowd-control oriented parties, especially if you have weapons with onCrit procs.

Agreed / and not quite. Imagine two parties: - 1. is able to kill bosses. Goes fast through trash encounters. - 2. is able to kill bosses fast. Goes through trash encounters slowly. It comes up to the trash/boss fight ratio, to determine which party on average will have an easier time. Yeah, I am biased towards ciphers) And have to mention that a dps cipher mostly shines if you already have a cc cipher in your group. On the other hand, even having one adds enough power to kill dragons. (link) I know their st-damage potential. And was considering one, along with monk and 3rd cipher, as mains for the next run. Although would probably change [We-Toki + Starcaller] to [Rimecutter + We-Toki/Barricade], with task of enabling deathblows delegated to party cipher. As MC, a rogue with The Merciless Hand can be decent.

Depends in what department If we look by amount of total damage a character can dish out in 30-60s, fire priest is indeed #1. If we look by amount of lazy per-encounter damage, than chanter, barbarian and cipher would get higher #. If we look by overall cc than it's a tie between cipher and druid. And for hard/boss fights wizard is joining the club. Also there is bonus utility in form of body-blocking, scroll using, buffing and healing. In my personal opinion, I'd order classes in following manner: - overall (without boss fights, rare resting): cipher >= dw_barbarian >= blasting-wizard >= monk >= druid >= chanter (past 9) >= paladin (past 13) >> paladin (pre 13) >> chanter (pre 9) - overall (boss fights): priest > wizard > cipher >= druid > paladin >= chanter >= monk > barbarian - overall: wizard >= cipher >= priest > druid > paladin = chanter > barbarian = monk I didn't include fighter, ranger, nor rogue. Because: - I haven't yet made a full play-through with a rogue. But imho they have two heavy opportunity cons: a). they are single target specialists, and there are many enemies on PotD, so one might take a class that also has some AoE; b). they lack hard cc. - Fighter has no important group-oriented buffs, nor auras. His role of tank is often superseded by paladin. While a dps fighter can be substituted by melee cipher. - Ranger - can be also superseded. Depending on party, it could be blasting-wizard, cipher, barb or monk. Barb really shines in trash fights. Barbaric Blow + HoF can literally reduce fight duration by half, allowing you to rest twice as less. Regarding accuracy: don't forget that carnage gets +1 acc per character level. Also any AoE stun/paralyze or brute force + painful interdiction do provide a huge bonus.

Yes. All categories are additive between themselves. While effects that belong to the same blue category are multiplicative. This is correct.

It is. Double Bittercut (with Spirit of Decay) is the best steady focus generation option for cipher. It is somewhat followed by Double Purgatory (depending on how often do you crit, and how often do you face slash-immune or high slash-DR enemies). Both of these are sabres. I would advocate against stilletos for cipher through. Another decent option is the Blade of Endless Paths estoc, due to it's 5 DR bypass, speed property and higher base damage. Would have to rerun the math through, in order to check if it is still out-classed by bittercuts + vulnerable attack.

Ah, Two-Weapon Style talent. That one belongs to DualWieldAttackSpeedMult category. And since it is the only one from it, it is applied additively with everything else. It does. Same recovery factor is used for all (melee and ranged) weapons. It is also used for majority of "regular" spells.

Yeah, bear and lion being so slow was quite a surprise. All animal companions have the same base damage: 11-17. Wolves get a bonus +2 to that. You can check this thread for more info. As for druids... Tbh I have never checked their base damage. Although according to wiki, they all have 11-22. Exception being Stelgaer: 21-33 And it also looks like Boar deals pierce damage. But again, I haven't test it. Similar story with fists damage. I have read, many times, that Novice/Transcendent Suffering is added as a flat bonus (which renders talents like Savage Attack a bit useless). While playing, my personal experience matched expectations. But I haven't tested it to be able to assert it and being 100% sure. More like 90% sure You might find this thread of use.

According to numbers in that spreadsheet, it does indeed appear so.The good thing is, those numbers are wrong. Just to be sure I have just frapsed a 10-Dex character dual-wielding stilettos: But the recovery line once it is shown, already appears heavily started. So action is either [4/5 + 20/21 + 15] or [4/5 + 19/20 + 16] delay/att/rec respectively. There is no way for recovery to be 24 frames. In any case I would advice using values from here: http://i.imgur.com/QqMIkII.png Because these were logged from the game itself. And frapsing is less exact (especially for quick weapons). 0.636s and 1.061s for stilettos would correspond to: - single_weapon: [4-5 delay + 19 attack_duration + 31.66 recovery_duration] - dual_wielding: [4-5 delay + 19 attack_duration + 15.83 recovery_duration] P.S. I know exactly, that there is a division by recovery factor (i.e. x/1.2), because that is how it is in the code. - There is no speed bonus for attacks made while dual-wielding.- There is speed penalty for attacks made with single-weapon. That penalty (Single1HWeapRecovFactor) is additive. You can check how it makes into the formula here. P.S. RateOfFireMult category coefficient is additive with other categories. Thus technically Sure-Handed Ila is multiplicative with Vicious Aim; and additive with everything else.

The first thoughts that come to mind: - 1. I don't quite see how 1 is countering B. - 3. Summoning can be also improved via extra talents. Like "chanter starts an encounter with 2 counters" or "chanter starts an encounter with 4 summoning counters". - 4. The difference is, that number of boss fights is quite smaller than number of medium + hard encounters. I would probably still vote for first option. But after reminding my Tyranny experience (cast buff1, cast buff2, cast buff3, cast buff4, cast buff5, engage, kill; repeat), I'll better keep my vote)

That's a good question. Looking at Dex vs Concentration, there is certainly a sweet spot on that axis somewhere, where 1 point in resolve becomes more important than 1 point in dex. And it's position depends on: - how often are you hit - are you ok with being hit - do you have any means to rise your concentration directly (buffs, potions) - do you have any cc means to make concentration a non issue P.S. When trying to solo Alpine Dragon, I had to take Potion of Spirit Shield, and actually increased Res from 3 to 5 on behalf of Dex. I was even thinking of increasing it higher, until I've decided, screw it! I am using scrolls. Confused/Paralyzed enemies don't interrupt)

Yeap. Sure-Handed makes part of Rate of Fire category. Besides ranged weapons recovery, it also affects recovery of spells that are internally considered as AttackRanged (basically majority of targeted spells) Not working, but I was thinking of that. If I'll have enough time, I actually could do such calculator. We'll see.

Without any other buffs or stuff that influences recovery, [DAoM + plate] and [no DAoM + naked] would net the same recovery duration.But yes, if there are any recovery reducing effects, the first variant would be much more favourable, as majority of coefficients do stack with DAoM multiplicatively (unless suppressed). That's because the stacking is neither pure additive, nor pure multiplicative.- alacrity (daom), speed (rain of goddah), gloves and durganized weapon enchant stack multiplicatively between themselves [1.5 * 1.2 * 1.15 * 1.15 = 2.38] - while sure-handed chant makes part of other 'speed category' (called 'Rate of Fire'), and it stacks additively with the above value [(2.38 - 1) + (1.2 - 1) = 1.58] Now substract from that 1.58 a 0.5 penalty for making an attack with single weapon. Plus substract extra 0.5 due to 50% recovery penalty, and you end up with 0.58 coefficient, which is enough to achieve zero recovery, because: recovery_duration = attack_duration / recovery_factor * max(0, 1 - 2 * speed_coef) Jerek explained it right. We can write the same thing in two ways: attack_duration = base_attack_duration / dex_coef recovery_duration = attack_duration / recovery_factor * max(0, 1 - 2 * speed_coef)or: attack_duration = (base_attack_duration / dex_coef) recovery_duration = (base_recovery_duration / dex_coef) * max(0, 1 - 2 * speed_coef) where: base_recovery_duration = base_attack_duration / recovery_factorSame thing. I've chosen the first, because that's how it is presented in code. The game doesn't stock base recovery values; recovery is calculated every swing based on total animation duration of last attack phase.

There seem to be no clear rules. But as a partially working rule of thumb you can use: - DoTs that come from AoEs, or weapon damage based wounding, do stack - The rest do not stack This would make it more consistent, yes. Part of me liked that wounding was getting higher damage; but yeah, it would definitely be more consistent. First time I've casted it was on 3rd play-through. And only because I explicitly wanted to check if it is indeed that bad) - Int does not increase total damage of DoTs with "fixed" damage, e.g: wounding (enchant from Tidefall, DiS, Persistence), Wounding Shot, Runner's Wounding Shot. (increasing int actually decreases their dps - and this is what I was marking as an inconsistency) - Int does increase total damage of all other DoTs. This would be a bit unfitting PoE1, because: - tick rate would have to be 1s; each tick going vs 0,08(3) of DR, which is not as clean/elegant/calculable-in-mind as 0.25 - this could result in lots of floating combat text, especially in case of stacking AoE DoTs But yeah, this probably could be done in PoE2, since there will be no flat DR, and maybe there would be some spam prevention that would aggregate displaying of multiple ticks. What kind of delay do you mean? As for Int, it already increases duration by adding more ticks, for all of DoTs. P.S. @Madscientist, you shouldn't post that link to nwn2db! That's such a time killer ))

I dunno how visual is that, but here you go: Base values: Sabre: 30 frames attack phase -> 50 frames recovery phase Dagger: 20 frames attack phase -> 33.3 frames recovery phase recovery_factor = 1.2 First option: dex_coef = 1.3 speed_coef = 0.15 - (0.40 - 0.15) + 0.2 = 0.1 note: pilferer gloves bonus is surpressed by durganized armor enchant Sabre: attack_duration = base attack_duration / dex_coef = 30 / 1.3 = 23.07 frames recovery_duration = attack_duration * max(0, 1 - 2 * speed_coef) / recovery_factor = 23.07 * max(0, 1 - 2 * 0.1) / 1.2 = 23.07 * 0.8 / 1.2 = 15.38 frames Dagger: attack_duration = 20 / 1.3 = 15.38 frames recovery_duration = 15.38 * max(0, 1 - 2 * 0.1) / 1.2 = 15.38 * 0.8 / 1.2 = 10.25 frames Second option: same as #1 Third option: dex_coef = 1.3 speed_coef = 0.15 - (0.20 - 0.15) + 0.2 = 0.3 Sabre: attack_duration = 30 / 1.3 = 23.07 frames recovery_duration = 23.07 * max(0, 1 - 2 * 0.3) / 1.2 = 23.07 * 0.4 / 1.2 = 7.69 frames Dagger: attack_duration = 20 / 1.3 = 15.38 frames recovery_duration = 15.38 * max(0, 1 - 2 * 0.3) / 1.2 = 15.38 * 0.4 / 1.2 = 5.12 frames Fourth (bonus) option: If you had Gauntlets of Swift Action in your #3 scenario: dex_coef = 1.3 speed_coef = (1.15*1.15 - 1) - (0.20 - 0.15) + 0.2 = 0.47 Sabre: attack_duration = 30 / 1.3 = 23.07 frames recovery_duration = 23.07 * max(0, 1 - 2 * 0.47) / 1.2 = 23.07 * 0.06 / 1.2 = 1.15 frames Dagger: attack_duration = 20 / 1.3 = 15.38 frames recovery_duration = 15.38 * max(0, 1 - 2 * 0.47) / 1.2 = 15.38 * 0.06 / 1.2 = 0.77 frames So for example in case of sabre, making one swing would go down from [5 + 30 + 50] frames to only [5 + 23.07 + 1.15]. Or ~x2.9 faster. Hope this will help you out

From one point of view, it's not a bug; as all spells and abilities are gaining extra +1 acc per character level, in order to compete with weapon accuracy enchants and talents. On the other hand, carnage uses weapon acc as baseline, right?

Had a summoner chanter with dumped Per/Dex, but high Mig/Int for buffing chants/scrolls/beloved spirits and summoning invocations in mind for awhile. But imho, summons are just too fragile. Was thinking about this one too. Still, if you need that extra acc, it's easier to throw a mass paralyze and thus dump enemy reflex to oblivion. Another possible way could be a cc-chanter. A 2/15/5/20/18/18 wild orlan offtank, focused on cc-invocations + scrolls, and either completely low-level chants or Aefyllath + Sure Handed, if you have many ranged (non-dot) dps'ers.

Surprise) That's why I was advocating for maxing might on Drawn-in-Spring/Tidefall/Perseverance Persistence users. * At least it doesn't directly benefit from deathblows. This has reminded of Average Joe build. Many considered pure fighter to be a quite weak. Surprisingly it beat many of martial non-kaedrin power-builds. Point taken

Humpf, wanted to write that it doesn't compute, but... just now have realized that attack duration of a weapon (which is hidden) also is decreased by haste and spell surge effects (in Tyranny). Anyway, sure it would be better if the game would communicate/show us that data On second thought it would be better if I'd name them non-dot lashes and dot-lashes. It's the fact that wounding is a dot, that allows it to benefit from might. I actually like this might thing. But I do agree, that high int should not reduce it's dps. - In terms of pure auto-attack dps, for characters in plate: yes. - In terms of pure auto-attack dps, for characters in light armor: not necessary. You can still reach zero-recovery even with Vulnerable Attack, so having [1h+shield] will catch up in dps, while also providing extra defences. - it is worth noting that it's not the sabres themselves being stronger options than other alternatives, but specific two uniques: Bittercut and Purgatory. For example take a look at Purgatory vs Edge of Reason. Hmm no. Not always. It's complicated even without taking wounding in consideration. In any case, it's important not only how hard you hit, but how often, and which weapon procs there are. Plus the amount of full attack abilities available to your class (as these do benefit from dual-wielding more than from melee 2H).