Nobear

Right. If you're not too adamant about your getting your class build "perfect," that could be a good thing, as you may well end up beating the game before I do with all the restarting I'm prone to do. I haven't restarted the game in a week or more. Well I have, but I didn't get very far before I went back to my main play through and progressed a bit further. For me, this is the accomplishment!

I didn't want to say anything about that build on the other thread since you had already chosen it, but the thing I disagree most with is where he says "RES - 8 - I really don't need Concentration." If you are taking into consideration that you will often get hit in melee despite your best efforts to the contrary, you will often be interrupted, and Concentration is very valuable to maintain high DPS while getting attacked. IMHO his build would have been improved by dumping Con to put more into Res, which also would have opened up more dialogue options (namely, a greater power to persuade people across a wide range of situations). You also don't really need Int as a rogue, which he acknowledges. Of course, he is factoring RP into his decisions for both Con and Int, so he realizes it's not an optimal min-maxed build. Basically, unless you are planning to solo the game as a rogue, his blinds and cripples are useful to get the ball rolling on disables and sneak attacks, but then other characters can take over with AoE disables which also last longer even if you were to have average or above Int on a rogue. Because he is not focusing heavily on Per and Res, he is not prioritizing Deflection anyway. Following his thinking, I'd surmise he would consider the Perception change to be good. He is already neglecting Deflection in order to max the DPS he would do while not being attacked, so why not have more Accuracy to increase his theoretical max DPS even further? Overall, and this goes back to AshenPlanet's thinking, Accuracy and Deflection are both good for a rogue. Which is more important of the two I think is debatable and partly based on personal preference, but it also varies from fight to fight. Edit: Vahn, I don't want to make you feel like you've made a "wrong" choice there. The build you're using is certainly viable, especially below PoTD, and it seems you're enjoying it, so cheers.

I also say it depends, though not in terms of which is more useful, but on whether you can cover your entire formation with your aura or not. Disregarding a certain bug I will explain below, it seems to take about 22 Int to cover my entire custom formation. That sounds like a lot, but you can get it with 14 base Int by Defiance Bay with one item, a resting bonus and an infinitely available buff. I would consider Zealous Focus if you have at least 14 base Int and/or care to depend on those bonuses I mentioned, as it's really useful especially to your casters and ranged. However, if you have lower Int, it may not be enough to cover your entire party anyway, and the ones who would benefit most from Zealous Focus would be the first to drop out of range. In this case, Zealous Endurance could at least cover your front line, which are usually the only ones who need it (situational exceptions aside). Now about the bug currently in place: I'm not 100% sure on the numbers, but this is my educated guess based on experience playing with various Int values on a paladin. When I have had Int over 10, my aura size has grown over time, sometimes until it is literally larger than the whole map. Attempting to capitalize on this, I played with dumped Int, and found that my aura size instead shrunk until I literally had to stand on top of someone else to cover him. Our selection circles could overlap without the ally being covered. So my educated guess is that the magic value is 10. If I'm correct, playing with a constant 10 Int would mean your aura would currently stay the same size, but it's the total Int value that counts for this, not just the base. In summary, in the current latest hotfixed patch of 1.0.6, if you have at least moderate Int (above 10 total Int, it seems), your aura size will continuously grow and you won't have to worry about it. If you turn it off and on, the growth will reset, but it will come back. However, this is a bug and will probably be fixed, so be forewarned if you are planning to build to take advantage of it. I find, in practice, the hard fights tend to be hard on both survivability and accuracy/DPS, so where I'd really "need" one I'd "need" the other just as much. I personally would rather stick with one and spend that ability point elsewhere. Back to the OP: Gary, do you have Durance in your party? Because then it will make very little difference which one you pick, as there is a level 1 priest spell for each of the two auras you don't have. You should also know these don't stack. If you take Zealous Endurance, casting Armor of Faith would be next to useless as it would only bump your DR from 3 to 4 (the highest active effect suppresses others of the same type), but Blessing would be very worthwhile to cast, and vice versa if you take Zealous Focus. The Inspiring Radiance talent is a special snowflake which stacks with other accuracy spells, making it a great talent to boost your accuracy at the beginning of every fight.

Thank you both very much for the intel, that you delivered without story spoilers. It's useful to know what monsters are most common or rare in the game. I have cleared level 4 of Od Nua, so you are saying there won't be many more ogres than that (until the expansion)? I didn't know you could only enchant 1/2 Superb weapons. I hope the expansion will bring more for that.

I tried to start a conversation about this as a follow-up to another thread, but I figure it's better to have it in a separate thread. The idea is that, although the resistance/vulnerability system in PoE is forgiving enough that you can power through the game with minimal thought to it, I like the idea and I like to prepare a fight with the best weapon of multiple choices for a given enemy. This led me to want to plan out what the best combos are. Admittedly, this would get expensive for a dual wielder, which I don't have in my party. I am doing this for my two tanks, and I know some of you may consider this not worth it, but I enjoy this dimension of the game. So far I have these: 1) Slash/Corrosive Lash/Wilder Slaying: I chose this because ogres are vulnerable to Corrode, and there are also plant enemies which are vulnerable to both Slash and Corrode. 2) Crush/Shocking Lash/Vessel Slaying: I chose this because animats are vulnerable to Shock, and they are also resistant to both Pierce and Slash, leaving Crush as the most effective physical damage type against them. 3) Pierce/Burning Lash/Spirit Slaying: I chose this because spirits are vulnerable to fire, and it's the physical damage type left over after the first two combos. I figure these combos ought to serve me well in at least some capacity for most of the game. They will each have their specialties, and when there is no clear winner I can default to using the weapon I consider best in other ways. Does anyone have thoughts or suggestions on this? PS Let me tack on a quick question here: I just got Resolution (6/12 Enchant slots already used). I put Corrosive Lash on it, bringing that to 8/12. If I put a Slaying enchant on it, will this limit the quality I can eventually make it? Would I otherwise (if left at 8/12) be able to upgrade it to Exceptional and then Superb, or would the rules against overriding enchantments prevent this anyway?

You changed your original question. When I have a closely related follow-up question I usually ask it further down, to avoid confusion, but no worries as I got it this time. To answer your new question, pistols are a fine choice, as they do high damage per shot so are good vs high DR enemies. Theoretically, arquebuses would be even better for this, but the unique pistols currently in the game seem to be better than the unique arquebuses. Add to that the fact that pistols and blunderbusses share a weapon focus (Ruffian), and that blunderbusses are great for lower DR enemies. That said, as I pointed out, seeing as an early expansion preview showed the new rogue companion with a ranged weapon and shield, the expansion may bring changes that will make this discussion outdated by the time you are looking to benefit from it.

I was not advocating mid-level stats across the board. My preference is to dump Con and Int, max Dex and Str, and have high Res and Per, but I give a slight preference to Res so that I can keep up my DPS while being attacked. Sure, it's true that not maxing Str will make a relatively small difference with a rogue compared to other classes, I just prefer to squeeze out every little bit of DPS before I pump things like interrupt. You could argue for either, and honestly it won't make a huge difference either way. Where I disagree most I think is about extra accuracy not being needed. Well, define "needed." It's certainly welcome for anyone. For a rogue, even though you have buffed Hit-to-Crit, accuracy still helps your crit rate to a lesser extent, and also gives you more of those hits in the first place, rather than have them be misses or grazes (which can be a factor on PoTD). I wouldn't say rogues will be hit hardest in the expansion, I'd say tanks will be hit hardest (but probably not enough to make them squishy in most fights). I'd say the expansion will be a net benefit to rogues, as I'd take a DPS increase for a DPS class (always a benefit) over a survivability increase (of greatly varying benefit depending on the fight, and aided by a variety of other means either from rogue abilities, talents, racials, other classes, or items like the Deflection ring you mention). Edit: Add to this individual stealth, making a melee backstabbing rogue much more viable without the big investment in stealth across your party, and I'd say this is a great expansion for rogues from what I've read.

Level 1 spells turn Per-Encounter at player level 9, and level 2 at level 11. Unless they change course (which some players think they should), continuing the pattern would make level 3 spells turn Per-Encounter at level 13 in the expansion. The consensus tends to be that it's hard to blow through your level 1 and 2 spells in one encounter unless you're soloing, making these talents not worthwhile for the vast majority of cases.

Not currently. That's why I said it would imply some detail or change we don't know about yet. This was from at least one of the articles covering what they were showing of the expansion at E3. And, although guns are two-handers, Two-Handed Style is only for melee weapons. Ranged should get Marksman instead, and Gunner if you want to use a gun.

Wait, I forgot that your post was about the prospect of playing with the upcoming companion rogue. In that case, I don't think we know what her stats will be, or if she will be a special "race" with some unique bonus, kind of like Pallegina. I remember reading she was pictured somewhere with a ranged weapon and shield, which would imply some detail or change we don't know about yet. It's quite possible the expansion will bring one or two surprises that might change the current discussion on rogues in some meaningful way.

I don't think so at all. You only get an accuracy boost if you're wielding a single one-handed weapon without a shield. All this would do is sacrifice a massive portion of your DPS (the main point of a rogue) for a very marginal increase in survivability. DPS is always valuable, survivability only sometimes is, so I'd say dual wield is a must if you're playing a frontline melee rogue. Edit: If you want more survivability for a frontline melee rogue, one of the most effective things with the lowest DPS tradeoff would be to make him a Moon Godlike. For more detail on a build like this, read "Prince of Persia Blue Edition" here: http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844&insideModal=1 Dumping Con wouldn't be so bad, and you'd effectively be extending your health pool (and that of your allies, to some extent) by a significant amount up to 4 times per encounter. It'll actually trigger more often with lower Con FWIW.

Thanks for all the replies, thoughts and advice. My current plan is to take WF Ruffian for Eder and no focus for my paladin tank. She could use some more Fort anyway, on top of the other tanking and paladin talents she has, as she only has 10 Might and 14 Con. I'm level 7 now, so Eder has already taken the Ruffian Specialization. My paladin will be wide open with her choice of weapons, the freedom of which I like. As for my secondary question, about enchants, Gromnir answered that the ones he considers most useful are Fire and Corrode, and Spirit and Wilder Slaying. That's useful info, but my question went beyond this: are there any particularly effective combinations aside from Fire + Spirit Slaying and Corrode + Wilder Slaying? For instance, are there any tough enemies who are weak to both a physical and elemental damage type, so that it would make a difference which enchants I put on a slash vs pierce vs crush weapon?

Focusing on Deflection for a rogue? Extra accuracy not needed? I'm definitely going to differ 180 degrees from you on this one. As long as you have two tanks, your melee rogue should only be taking hits from 0-2 enemies at once most of the time, and building him offensively means he can almost always kill any enemies who have focused him faster than they can kill him. For the rare exceptions, have Durance cast Withdraw on him. It will take him out of the fight for a while, but he will still have made a big difference in the fight just with his opening backstab, especially after 2.0 which will introduce individual stealth. I'd suggest giving him either a ranged or reach weapon for his alternate slot, but that's for cases where bad pathing at a chokepoint would prevent him from getting in range. Alternately, Escape would probably solve this problem, but I have not played with Escape, so I don't know how well it works in practice.

That's true, but kind of a moot point unless you see something besides DPS or focus to be worthwhile spending a talent point for on a cipher. Biting Whip, Draining Whip, WF Ruffian, Gunner, Marksman, Penetrating Shot... what must-have talent am I missing?

Or bringing your whole computer over to your friend's house and connecting them with an Ethernet crossover cable so you are sitting facing each other, and you can read each others' expressions but not see what's on each others' screens.

Specifically, the base rate is that you gain 25% of the damage you deal in Focus. With the +33% talent, it changes that to .25 + .25 * .3 repeated = .3 repeated, so 33.3 repeated % of the damage you deal. Bows are perhaps the most consistent way to gain focus, but guns (besides blunderbusses) with the gunner talent are better for high DR targets, and blunderbusses can become great if you also add Penetrating Shot. Also, each of the 6 pellets they fire per shot gains 4 focus from the Carow Golan drug, so that's 24 extra focus per shot compared to just 4 for other weapons.

Alright, I'd be willing to believe that, but do you know specifically what things work differently now than depicted in the chart?

This chart diagrams how this stuff works, which has enough variables that it'd be difficult to explain it all in words: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bzc2Dec83wSnY2F4WjgzaHhXVnM/view?pli=1 One thing the chart does not show are guns (and crossbows and arbalests, which the game considers guns). Guns have a reload time on top of their attack and recovery time. They spend most of their time in the reloading portion. So the Sure-Handed Ila chant, which increases both attack and reload speed, would seem to be twice as good for a gunner, but in fact it is equally good for all ranged. Conversely, something that only increased attack speed (like Hastening Exhortation) would make only a very small difference for a gunner, but something that increased only reload speed (like the Gunner talent) would increase overall speed by a large portion of the % stated, seeing as guns spend such a high percentage of their time reloading.

Priests eventually get prayers against that stuff, and paladins have their Righteous Soul, but those are only available at high level. I know the spores in Anslog's Compass were kind of annoying, but not close to the hardest fight in Act 1 even so. Will-o-Wisps do it too, and the fight at the entrance to Caed Nua can easily go south if you don't take care of them fast.

I don't use Necrotic Lance myself, I'm just saying it has one-shotted some of my characters when used against me. I prefer CC spells above anything. But some AoE spells are easier to target than others while avoiding friendly fire. In the majority of fights, I find I can get off a circular AoE spell without hitting allies. If you have the option turned on to show area of effect, you can see a red area and a yellow area around it. Enemies in both areas will be hit, but only allies in the red area will be hit. Beam and cone spells with friendly fire are much harder to target effectively without friendly fire. That's why it's so popular to give Lore to your tanks: they can use those scrolls up front without burning their friends.

Thank you.

I'm talking about stuff like Wolf Hide and other animal hides, lion fangs, animat armor fragments, and other apparent trash that's organized in Miscellaneous items (aside from grappling hook and other tools), rather than in Ingredients. Don't tell me details, I just want to know if I should keep it for anything, whether it's a quest, crafting, or whatever. Thanks.

Yeah I got overwhelmed about that too, until I found out they are not tied to the game's story. I'm saving one of each book, though. Maybe when I beat the game I'll read them. I'll have all the multi-volume ones and not just Part 1 and 5, and they'll make more sense than reading about someplace I haven't seen or developed an emotional attachment to yet.

Yes, an option for that would be very welcome. Maybe they should even make it default without an option, as IDK who it would annoy, but being able to adjust the time would be cool too. I should clarify that what I said applies mostly to my ranged (and summons, but they didn't auto attack for me before either). With melee, if they were attacking an enemy who dies and a nearby one starts hitting them, they will still typically start attacking back. I don't use those friendly-fire hazard spells. I know that spells like Chill Fog are powerful, but I prefer Slicken and other CC/debuff spells that my party can then walk through afterwards. I do believe my tanks might still progress forward in certain cases. This could be bad if you're fighting near a chokepoint and your ranged don't have line of sight. I counter this by having my mechanic set a trap in the doorway and fall back, then unstealth to engage and wait for them to come out. I know the current mechanics make certain tactical options hard or impossible, but I see those restrictions as part of the challenge in finding an effective workaround. I know that might not make you happy, it's just how I choose to see it so that I can enjoy the game. Cheers. Edit: I hadn't read Uni's latest comment. My experience mirrors his.

So you're not a fan because you prefer a challenge? BTW enemy paladins do counter with Liberating Exhortation. But yeah, apart from this they generally don't and it's pretty OP for both control and DPS.