Sanctuary

Is this so you can get the crit bonus from the Doemenels? Also, regarding the Cloudpiercer vs whatever else Hunting/War Bow, you could always just use Cloudpiercer until it procs and then switch to another bow for utility I guess. Only downside is you'd need twice as much for enchantments (triple if you use another slot too), which I'm not sure some are actually factoring into these theorycrafted "best" setups.

Not sure that's actually what's going on here, even if the actual gameplay kind of feels somewhat MMOish at times. It's more like they are fixing issues that weren't noticed or simply not commented on as much when there were way less people (beta) playing the game. Or there were things that they didn't feel were quite right just prior to launch, but didn't have the time to fix yet. I don't really see it so much as a "nerfing" a class into the ground and more like actually bringing them closer in line to the other classes, so they aren't always the "obvious" choice for most situations. I'm pretty sure what basketofseals pointed out is exactly what is going. This feels very much like the changes MMOs make: they're nerfing things which were powerful and buffing things which were weak in an effort to get more abilities to be close to average. I don't like it at all, but I've given up on any hope of the game being different in this regard. Despite having mechanics that are similar to Baldur's Gate 2 (six person party, real time with pause, etc.), the philosophy behind combat in this game (balance, items, etc.) is completely different from that of BG2 and is in fact very similar to that of MMOs. This patch is merely the logical extension of this philosophy. Why act as if we are living in 1998 still, where one-and-done was about all you'd get? Do you honestly believe that if BG and BG2 had been developed just now that they wouldn't be getting similar treatment? Bioware has progressively been doing this with their more recent games as well. Both of your posts just come off as whine posts, because you seem to enjoy using blatantly much stronger abilities to get you through the game and you don't want there to be parity among classes. Even with these changes, you still have classes like the Chanter, Ranger and Paladin. Would you rather they remained as bad as they are, just so you can keep playing with the same "broken" abilities? Balance has nothing to do with competition in this case, aside from the fact that there are multiple classes vying for your attention. It seems to me that you would be fine with having just three or four classes in the game that are super strong, instead of having nine or eleven that are comparatively strong. The former sounds super boring to me. Plus, why did they even bother creating the other classes if no one is going to care about using them? This isn't like the previous IE like games where you had a very large pool of classes to draw from. Even if a handful truly stunk, you still had a wide selection of those that didn't.

Not sure that's actually what's going on here, even if the actual gameplay kind of feels somewhat MMOish at times. It's more like they are fixing issues that weren't noticed or simply not commented on as much when there were way less people (beta) playing the game. Or there were things that they didn't feel were quite right just prior to launch, but didn't have the time to fix yet. I don't really see it so much as a "nerfing" a class into the ground and more like actually bringing them closer in line to the other classes, so they aren't always the "obvious" choice for most situations. Most of these changes are actually improvements to classes anyway. In the case of the Cipher; they already far outclassed most classes at everything other than tanking anyway. Even with their changes, they're still going to be one of the "must have" classes for a group. This game isn't balanced around solo anyway.

Wait what? Do you mean it doesn't work, as in "it's just not as good for bows as it is for guns"? Because it technically does give an increased amount of shots with bows. It doesn't just affect reload time, and a stopwatch will show you as much.

LMAO give me a break. 1. I didn't mention the Paladin, because I don't use them period. 2. There's a difference between being lazy with your group, in that you pretty much focus on buffing a single character at the cost of what the group as a whole can actually contribute and actually managing resources properly. But what you're suggesting with that kind of micro every single encounter is not only the exteme opposite, it's borderline OCD and not even in the realm of fun at all. In fact, it's not even necessary unless you're just trying to perform some scientific experiment with the game. And Marking is a mostly useless mod. The effect you think it has is pretty minimal compared to reality. Unless of course you do actually spend that much time moving your ranged Rogue next to a melee character that has a Marking weapon (or you have the gun that does it) every single encounter. If that's the case, then I guess have fun taking 60+ hours to finish the game.

I keep forgetting about Persistence. Usually I either just ignore it or I end up getting it too late into the game, but I'm not actually sure which is better between it and Cloudpiercer. You get 3 DR bypass and Jolting Touch on Cloudpiercer, but their base damage is extremely close, with Persistence being the faster of the two. It also comes with the Reliable mod (20% grazes into hits) and x1.45 damage as well as Wounding, while Cloudpiercer has +4 accuracy and slightly more room to grow via extra mods. Don't you get a -25 accuracy penalty while charmed? Besides, that much RES/INT is such a waste if you have a Cipher in the group anyway. It's not like they don't have a gazillion ways to control you if you get charmed.

Like I just said, none of this makes much of a difference on Hard (or below). By the time you can actually use these new buffs more frequently, you're already almost to the point where you can have +50 END, +15 ACC, +CC up for the entire duration of every single encounter. And since you aren't going to die from tanking 1-2 enemies while having 25+ DR, these changes do nothing outside of PotD. I also already mentioned why the lance change isn't really an issue as well. It's another alternative now, but it will never be your primary weapon, and it's also not going to be as useful (in many cases) as a replacement to Call to Slumber.

I haven't taken a melee Wizard through PotD yet, but on Hard at least, none of these changes other than Death Ring and Ghost Blades (the new alternative to Fan I guess?) will change much of anything.

How are wizards becoming Jedi's? I played a fighter/mage in the BG series and it was one of my favorite classes to play. Are you saying wizards are now able to have a similar play style with the most recent changes? It is. Wizards got a major buff to base health/endurance, heavy buffs on all defensive spells and conjured weapons (staff/lance) are super strong now. I still don't understand how having 18 more endurance at level twelve compared to now is a "major" change... They start out with 6 more now over base, and gain +2 more per level compared to now. They also have health = 4*end rather than 3*end. And you know, all that separates them from a fighter now from endurance perspecitve is "just" another 18 endurance. Uh, no? Unless you're going to actually keep CON at 18. That's what seperates them the most from Fighters right now. Unless you're making a damage sponge, 3 MGT Fighter, you would need to have MGT, CON, DEX (at least don't drop it below base) at relatively decent levels, while also having a maxed out RES and whatever you can spare in PER. Wizards on the other hand NEED to max out MGT and DEX by default (or at least start out with 16+ in both). If you're going the melee route, you don't have to max out INT, but you still need it to be higher than base so that your buffs actually have an extended duration. You also need to raise RES as much as you can. That means you're going to be dropping CON regardless. Even with these changes, you wouldn't be using a Wizard as your sole tank. They could off tank pretty well, but they won't ever be tanking 4-5 enemies through most of your encounters, because those situations would be heavily dependant on limited buffs that the Fighter doesn't need.

How are wizards becoming Jedi's? I played a fighter/mage in the BG series and it was one of my favorite classes to play. Are you saying wizards are now able to have a similar play style with the most recent changes? It is. Wizards got a major buff to base health/endurance, heavy buffs on all defensive spells and conjured weapons (staff/lance) are super strong now. I still don't understand how having 18 more endurance at level twelve compared to now is a "major" change... They start out with 6 more now over base, and gain +2 more per level compared to now. I'm also not sure how much the lance change will matter. I mean, it's good that it got buffed, but it will still be super situational and it's not like you'll be using it non stop as your primary weapon or anything. If nothing else, it just seems like it compliments a Tidefall build and can be used for relatively large packs as a better alternative to an AoE spell on the few fights that would demand it. Not sure I'd really use it over Malignant Cloud or Call to Slumber though.

That doesn't sound right. edit: Actually, just did a quick test against a group of Phantoms/Shades. It seems like they can lose the debuff after a teleport or maybe there's even a chance that there's a check to have it reapplied after the initial attack landed. I did however have the debuff last the entire 28s on one of them, with the Rogue hitting it multiple times. Didn't really check on non teleporters yet, but I used to use that ability often, and it seemed to last forever on most enemies. The debuff in general isn't just for Rogues though. It removes 10 deflection.

I know this is a thread for a PotD Rogue, but on anything lower than that, I'm not sure the longer lasting/range debuffs are ever really worth it just for the Rogue. And then, when you are using them, it's better to use a weapon with at least War Bow speed.

I don't really see the point of raising Resolve so much. Not for a ranged Rogue. None of the stats really matter other than Might and Dexterity, so I just max those and leave everything else at base. I just use a fine War Bow until Cloudpiercer (which you can get relatively early). Even though Jolting is only once per encounter, it still adds up to quite a bit over time, since it jumps targets. I have never used Borresaine, and think the mods on it are pretty terrible. Random stuns don't appeal to me either, especially if it messes up positioning for other classes. I typically have at least one Wizard and one Cipher anyway, so CC isn't an issue. I also take Penetrating Shot when using the War Bow, although I'm honestly not sure at what point it becomes relevant, if at all below PotD. When 1.05 arrives, it might just be smarter to take 2x Arquebus, especially since you can weapon switch and it will automatically reload after the fight ends along with your current weapon. I also don't like the Hearth Orlan racial. It's overrated compared to Distant Advantage, and I'm not even sure if it works at all if you aren't at least 5m close to the same teammate you're trying to gain the buff from. That's how the Marking weapons work (which makes the mod mostly useless). If you want to get the most out of the racial, you're stuck always standing close to another member and always forcing them to be hitting the same target. Otherwise, you're losing damage. Plus, depending on the enemy, both of you hitting it might actually be too much damage and a waste there too. Hearth Orlan seems much better for a melee Rogue.

It was an example. If you want more examples, Fan of Flames (which you get immediately and is your bread-and-butter damage spell) has also been nerfed and the effectiveness of the Bracers of Spiritual Power has been cut in half. Except with the groups I use, I rarely every used Fan of Flames after the initial dungeon. Despite it being really powerful for a level 1 spell, I almost always used Chill Fog over it. Later, at level 9 when you have way more room to use multiple spells per encounter, I still didn't use it that much. Some of you overestimate how strong it really is. It's great burst, for sure, but when you don't need to kill everything ASAP, Chill Fog actually does more over time. Plus, if you're using a Rogue, they all get hit with Sneak Attack.

To be more specific, they improved Wizards that use buffs to become warriors. Wizards that are played as standard IE casters appear to have actually been nerfed in the undocumented changes (e.g. to nobody's surprise, Gaze of the Adragan has been severely nerfed). Lol, this does absolutely nothing in the grand scheme of things. You play the game as a "standard IE caster" for a very long time prior to that spell. Plus, the radius is so small to begin with, and there are very few fights where it truly shined that it wasn't even worth picking most of the time as one of your first two spells at level 11. Even with it in my book, I almost never used it when I could simply use Amplified Wave with a Cipher and something else on the Wizard. Its biggest influence was on PotD anyway. Anyone care to explain this one to me? I assume you can get minus mechanics via gear or glitches or something? My guess is that it means that the trap will be detected at 4 ranks below the Mechs threshold necessary to disarm it. Either that, or you can now detect traps outside Scouting mode, if your Mechs skill level exceeds the in-scouting-mode spotting threshold for that trap by 4. Since it says passively detect, that indicates to me that it's outside of Stealth. It could mean without any Mechanics investment, but I doubt that's it.

The overall contribution IS the context. Sure you could be very specific and come up with the best formula to calculate numbers for each battle but you don't really need such detailed analysis to have a rough idea on whether a character is effective or not. I don't see how overall contribution to gauge a character's efficacy would even be remotely "completely irrelevant" tbh. Unless you're rest scumming, then you still gotta ration your wizard's casting resources (again, talking about PotD - almost no enounters are trivial). Priest buffs affects everyone equally sure, but would Eder benefit more of the additional 20% crit rate/+20 accuracy or my rogue? Like I said, my ranged rougue can burst WITH sustainability. I can go through numerous fights with only per encounter abilities and my rogue still deal massive damage. I have already mentioned the intangible weaknesses of melee rogues. By the time the melee rogues can safely engage enemies without getting aggro, my ranged rogue has been tearing enemies from the start. And what if they get engaged? Time would be wasted on disengaging with escape abilities. That's why overall contribution might actually be the best convenient metric - it includes long encounters, short encounters, hard encounters and easy encounters which covers every situation, every pros and cons for the various builds in every battle. Difficulty plays a pretty huge factor, but the classes were balanced around Normal. You also shouldn't be comparing a non DPS character to a DPS character, because that's a pointless comparison. The difference between Hard and PotD is just the level of tedium and inflated stats. So yeah, fights will drag on. Hard though actually feels like the most balanced of the difficulties, but then the enemies per encounter are quite a bit higher than Easy and Normal, so it favors AoE classes. Wizards are actually pretty pointless below Hard. I also feel like you're either exaggerating, not optimizing or just getting lazy on many of your fights though in regards to ability useage for ALL of your characters. Because despite the fact that non Cipher AoE casters will start running out of spells earlier, the fights won't be lasting so long that the Rogue will supercede them for overall damage done. The only way that's going to happen is if you force it, by stacking buffs on the Rogue soley to inflate their contribution, while neglecting the rest of the group. You also mentioned only being halfway through Act 2. So? Different classes perform differently at different levels due to unlocks. And yes, stats DO matter. INT doesn't really matter as much unless you're a Wizard or Druid for slightly larger AoE, but MGT and DEX most certainly matter for all DPS classes. Are you sure you read that correctly? They gain +2 more END per level. That's not really what I'd consider crazy. It won't really affect that much. As it stands right now, a melee Wizard wants to drop CON kind of low anyway to raise RES, especially since you can give yourself 50 END anyway. I do think Wizards overall though got some extremely useful buffs.

+8 deflection is absolutely nothing. If it was +8 DR, that's an entirely different story.

Do you know what I did to rule out gear bias? When I ended up getting Cloudpiercer for the Rogue, I consoled one in for the Wizard. I also did the same thing for every enchantment, as well as things like bracers of all-consuming rage or Amulet of the Unconquerable. You know, so that if one party member ended up with +2 Might and +2 Dex they all did. This wasn't to make the game easier or anything, it was to make sure everyone was on equal grounds. My Rogue was in the lead for probably 70% of the game, and then started quickly falling behind near the end. One thing that I still don't know though (and this would change things A LOT) is if the combat log is counting overkill damage, or if it's only counting legitimate damage that was actually done to an enemy. If something only has 1 endurance left, but you hit it for 98, that's worthless. I also never said that ranged Rogues were "worthless", because it was the only character with a 50%+ crit rate (does Sneak Attack actually count as a crit though?), so their single target damage was pretty strong. But when you're fighting swarms of enemies at a time, classes with lots of AoE damage matter way more. I also never took their once per rest tactical nuke type abilities though. That meant skipping out on other passive buffs that were active full time. I'm also not sure why you seem to think Rangers and Rogues are the only classes that can shoot bows and guns as well as get passives for them. The Cipher doesn't do as much single target damage as the Rogue, but it doesn't need to. It can do 60% - 70% as much, while doing 400% as much per encounter. Wizards also don't run out of sustainable damage either after like level 4 and at level 9 there's no comparison. nope .. Works as before 40% lash vs 25% DR but it no longer takes 5 millennia to activate which means most people might actually cast this every fight (shockingly).. They need to change the tooltip then, because what you're saying it does has absolutely nothing to do with the description.

In 1.05 Ciphers start with 1/4th focus instead of 1/2 and Soul Shock's radius is cut in half--although I'm not sure how much of a difference that makes if it's being used on your tank anyway. Fan of Flames got nerfed (no biggie really), but Malignant Cloud was buffed, and Death Ring was made foe only. Which is smart since it was ridiculous to even consider using before. Hey, Rangers got a buff too! They will now actually be able to do 0.5s more of damage per fight!

Must have been server or realm based, or even time based. I played from 2004 - 2011 and never heard a "BM" Hunter refered to as a "Beast Master", even though technically they are more focused in the Beast Mastery tree. Similarly, I've heard Warlocks being "Destro" specced, but I've never heard them specifically being called "Destroyers". Also, the class I was thinking of from EQ was a Beastlord.

Can you tell me how did you modify animal companion stats with IE mod? I would also do it and at least have some fun with Ranger. Just find the pets name with the "findcharacter" command and adjust it like any other player. http://rien-ici.com/iemod/console

Just reposting this from the class balance thread. I was thinking about just using console commands to create a different, pet less Ranger based off of Rogue and Ranger abilities. In its current form, Animal Companion just doesn't do much at all for the Ranger. This is especially true in dungeons and you have more melee than just the tank. It's very hard to get the pet around the two other melee or without ending up engaging an enemy of its own...and then dying. Even if the pet was invincible, and ended up just being more of a movable buff, it still seems way too cumbersome to use over just using a melee Rogue instead, even if its just standing behind the tank. It's even more problematic if you use a Chill Fog or two, because the only space that's usually left available is on top of it. My idea was to actually have a Ranger base, but one that doesn't have to use the pet at all. Technically you would have to just use a Rogue I think, and add in Ranger talents on level ups, unless there's some way to console out the pet requirement of a Ranger that I am unaware of. In the end, it would basically just be similar to a ranged Rogue, but with Driving Flight. It doesn't matter right now how much damage the pet does by itself, or how much of a bonus it gives the Ranger (with the caveat of the same target requirement) if the pet is either dead half of the time or you have to stall sending it in/waste too much time microing it. There's just absolutely no reason to pick a Ranger right now over practically any other class besides a Paladin. Too much busywork, and there's not even parity. Is that a new spec for the Hunter in WoW, or are you actually talking about EverQuest? You playing on Normal? Because there are less enemies per encounter, which skews things quite a bit (and is also why Wizards are trash below Hard).

Double; meant to delete the above actually.

Eh, just going to repost this in the Ranger specific thread.

Main issue with the game is that 99% of the encounters consist of swarms of trash. Going from Normal to Hard just emphasizes this even more. There are very few enemies in the game, aside from some very rare boss fights that have really high health enemies that have to be dealt with for any extended period of time. With how crummy the Ranger is on Hard and above, and with how the Ranged Rogue is kind of "bleh" for overall contribution, even if their single target is actually above average, what do you think of piecemealing together an actual (purely physical) ranged class using a combination of Rogue and Ranger talents? The only thing I know for sure is that it would require Sneak Attack, but aside from that it would primarily be Ranger abilities. But I'm not sure I'd want them to have Sneak Attack earlier or later. One thing is for sure, having to rely on such a squishy and micro intensive pet for damage is just stupid. You would almost certainly get more damage from simply using a pike wielding Rogue. I'm also not sure what your groups usually consist of, but I've been keeping 2x Wizards in mine, and I've only been playing on Hard. One PotD playthrough was enough for the short term and going from Easy and Normal to Hard increases enemy count. Anyway, pretty much every fight ends up with 4x Arcane Assaults being used on 2-5 enemies, and if it's larger or tough packs, I just drop 2x Chill Fog (which is normally enough to kill the back row enemies alone). I've been using the Cipher as offensively as possible, but she's still 3rd highest damage right now. When you play, were you just sending a tank in, letting him get swarmed, casting Soul Shock and ignoring Arcane Assault or just delaying it? Right now, very surprisingly (but thankfully), my Spellsword Wizard--who has 25 DR right now from multiple sources--is actually in the lead, and I'm actually casting spells less than Aloth, but not much. I find this kind of strange though since I am at a 50% recovery. It's going to get really silly at level 9 and then 11 when I can have +crit, +end, +acc up at all times, as well as burning haste on big packs/bosses. It's not a matter of stats either. I made sure all of the caster/ranged damage dealers had max Might and max Dex, and the Cipher doesn't have armor with any delay on it. Still debating on using the buff out of combat mod though. It still takes 5-8s in combat to get them all up.