Voltron

Since Paladins have Focus Aura which gives +5 to Accuracy and FoD gives +10 Accuracy Bonus I would say we don't need to put points in Perception here, which we would want for Monk/Barb combo. So I would put points into Might and Dexterity. And Probably I would take Intellect for 5% Duration per point which is imo very good for Bleak/Berserker and it also increase radius of Carnage. For Bleak/Soul Blade I would not bother with intellect as you mostly just use one-time active abilities, like FOD and SA and only Brand is really what you want to keep going. While on Zerker you want to keep Frenzy going to not waste time recasting it.

It's also worth to mention that Soul Anhiilation is Primary Attack, Not Full Attack, so will only deal damage with the Weapon in your primary hand. This makes it more effective with Two-Handed Weapon than if you Dual Wield (monks always Dual Wield). While Barbarian Blow is Full Attack so it's more effective with Dual Wield. And so it synergies much better with Fist Monk. Which also imo makes Barbarian better for Monk than Soul Blade in my opinion. Not that Sould Blade is not viable. Also another thing is that Barbarian Blow is not only an 25% Damage bonus but also 30% of Hits converted to Crits (cumulative with already 30% passive), and +50% Crit Damage (cumulative with Crit Damage bonus from Passive if you take it).

Since you have two pools for abilities (Zeal and Focus) you should use Flame of Devotion to build Focus, use Soul Anihilation and rise repeat. For stronger enemies start with Brand to increase damage received by them. Brand->Fod->SA. Though I agree with above that Bleak Walker/Berserker offers much more. Because problem with Soul Blade is that all you use is just SA because it eats your whole Focus. Since you pick Soul Blade only for melee multis = you want to focus on that. So you won't be able to use effectively Cipher spells etc. as it will down your DPS and Melee dmg. On the other hand Berserker offers TONs of great abilities to choose from. Starting from Frenzy, Barbarian Blow, Wild Sprint, Savage Defiance, Blooldlust, Leap. They have great control with Stuns, Dazes etc. And then Bleak Walker offsets his confusion later (you can also ofset it by taking Snef drug before fight) with Mental Fortress, offers addition hits to crit aura that stack with Berserker passive plus general passive giving you I think total of 40% Hits to Crit. Plus with high athletics you have three abilities to heal yourself : Lay Down Hands heal + Upgrade that gives regeneration, Savage Defiance which offers regenaration and Second Wind with High Atlethics. Overall I think it's the strongest combo for Bleak Walker, followed by Shattered Pillar/Bleak combo and Devoted. Also Souls Anihilation is Primary Attack, not Full Attack so it will only deal damage with weapon in primary hand, so Dual Wielding is not good with it, better Two-Handed weapon. While Barbarian Blow is Full Attack so dual wielding is more effective with it and deals more overall damage. And so Brand->FoD->Barbarian Blow is really nasty combo. Also with Spirit Frenzy your basic attacks Stun enemies :D

Bit off topic, but Barbarians can get +5 dex from Wild Sprint (as well as Nimble, which is better than Swift Flurry's Quick, and also immune to engagement). Though Blood Thirst is the biggest speed bonus by far... were you using that to calculate DPS? (It's power level 7 so available to multiclass at endgame.) As I mentioned I compared damage, not DPS, but I agree that on paper Swift Flurry/Wild Sprint + Frenzy + Bloodlust + Berserker passive offers a lot more DPS. Berserker/Bleak Walker would be fun

1. Well, it's always there +5 Dex for all that builds so it was always active. 2. I was comparing damage, not DPS. Swift Flurry can make Ravager hit several times more, but it doesn't affect the single hit damage. 3. As I mentioned I was testing DAMAGE, not DPS. Besides you can see that there not that much difference between normal punch crit and SA or BB. Sure you can probably spam SA more, but question is- how long are late game combats and will you really have opportunity to use "infinite SA" bullding your focus. 4. I forgot to add them to Trans but at the same time Ravager did not have increased Crit Damage passive so I consider that even. Trans did little less base damage and Ravager little less crit damage than both should have. Still, not big difference. Friendly fire is not problem as I build my whole party for range so I don't kill them. They just support my killing machine. And -10 Deflection is minor and can be offset by many things. Also Snef drug can offset confusion if you want. Overall you'd spam SA vs single target I would say that you can out dps Ravager maybe if target lives long enough. However it terms of fighint vs more enemies Ravager just out DPS Trans by a lot. Still the playstyle for all Melee Multi Shattered Pillar is very simillar. You buff, you attack, you spam strongest attack. That's all

no worries . So far I really like Transcendant the least. I play now with Shattered/Berserker but I think Nalpazca could be a winner late game. It's not very good early as crafting drugs is expensive, but I bet mid-end game you can craft a lot of them and then he can be scary. Though it remains to be seen how much damage you are able to avoid (via gear or how fast you can kill) because still gaining wounds from Shattered Pillar is just sooo goood. You basicelly spam Torment Reach all the time. What's a good build for a pure Shattered Pillar Monk? I'm lost on race/stats, and I'd like to start actually playing the game, haha. I would go for 14-16 Might, 14-16 Dex and 14-16 Perception. All are good for monk. Can't say specific stats yet as I don't know the later game gear bonuses etc. But I would probably grab 16 Might to get +2 from Human and Origin. For race you could take Nautral Godlike for +2 Power Levels bonus but at same time we don't know if there are not some super helemets/hoods/crows later in game. Moon Godlike is also good because of self heal and humans are also very good due to their bonuses and Fighting Spirit which is quite useful in the game for light armored front liner. I stick with humans till I beat game and see all head gear. As for abilities- Take first Swift Strikes and later upgrade them to Swift Flurry. Take Lesser wounds. Later focus on getting Tormnet Reach (upgrade this one later) as soon as possible. Also Take: Two Weapon Style (if you use fists which I recommend), Clarity of Agony and Dance of Death (upgrade this one later). Blade Turning might be great vs melee foes. Take Duality of mortal presense and then upgrade to turning wheel. Rest is up to you. Just on Level IX take Inner Death- it's broken as **** now.

no worries . So far I really like Transcendant the least. I play now with Shattered/Berserker but I think Nalpazca could be a winner late game. It's not very good early as crafting drugs is expensive, but I bet mid-end game you can craft a lot of them and then he can be scary. Though it remains to be seen how much damage you are able to avoid (via gear or how fast you can kill) because still gaining wounds from Shattered Pillar is just sooo goood. You basicelly spam Torment Reach all the time.

I used it when I had 63 Focus. Why should I wait for more focus. To boost its damage once and lose all Focus? In the time I wait for more focus I can do 4-5 Barbarian Blows. But If you want I can sit a little and wait for focus to build. But not now since all enemies die from one hit.

Well, thats how much damage it does. It's not calculation, it's what games shows when I hit someone :D. As I said, stats were the same, race human, used before hit all buffs and then use SA on enemy and those were results. This is the damage on lvl 20 monk/soul blade. I took all crit damage/hits to crit etc passives and I was pretty much always criting against enemies since it was lvl 20 vs beginning of the game. Maybe you tested it with HellWalker with stacked Wounds, but this is how it looks on Shattered/Berserker. Unless there is some hidden dmg threshold vs low level enemies, but I don't know nothing about it. Also this was on NAKED character, no gear was used at all. Might was I think 20 in all cases.

Ugh, Inner Death is straight broken right now. You can deal several hundreds damage with it. Pure Monk will hands down outdamage any other class in game with Inner Death.... And add empower to that... Ugh. I will stick to multi for now. Inner Death is just too broken even for me.

Anyone knows how to make AddAbility work in game. It shows this command but I can't add anything. Maybe now you need to type ability differently. I wanted to try out something in build without having to start over.

Votary Shattered Pillar/Bleak Walker - maxed dmg from burn/fire + Brand Enemy plus Flames of Devotion (dmg is base + Fire + Corrosive when you see three different numbers). Naked as builds above, human race, increased Crit Damage by 10% (same as Trans, but Ravager did not have it). Base: crit 42+5, crit 52 + 12 (Brand Enemy), (Swift Flurry) 72 + 17 (Brand Enemy), crit 51 + 12 (Brand enemy), crit 42 + 10 (normal), crit 44 + 18 (Normal), (Swift Flurry) crit 83 + 33 (Brand), 34 + 14 + 6, Crit 44 + 23 + 8 (normal), crit 43 + 17 + 7 (Brand), crit 149.5 (3 crit), 35 + 15 + 6 (normal) Torment Reach: Crit 59 + 31 + 10 (Brand), crit 46 + 16 + 8 (Normal), crit 58 + 30 + 10 (normal), crit 59 + 19 + 9 (Branded), Crit 49 + 11 (Brand) Eternal Devotion: crit 60 + 34 + 10, crit 63 + 33 +11 (Brand enemy), crit 67 + 35 + 12 (Brand Enemy), crit 57 + 40 + 10 (Brand Enemy), Crit 65 + 11 (Brand, enemy immune to fire), crit 64 + 34 + 11 It beats both Ravager and Sould Blades' Barbarian Blow and Soul Anihilation AS LONG AS TARGET IS NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE. He get's insane fire damage bonus when using Eternal Devotion + Monk Turning Wheel and fire bonus penetration from Passive. Base is average, little below Ravager, Torment Reach seems weaker. I used Tremondous Blows here to get him same buff as on Ravager as I skipped now Dance of Death. We also have aura here that converts some hits to Crits plus passive that converts hits to crits + Lay down hands for emergency and some other good stuff. But in terms of damage it's better than Ravager barbarian blow for single target (Eternal Devotion) if target is not resistance to Fire. It's much worse AOE than Ravager and it has not as much possible utility as Trans (Pillar/Soul Blade). Also Raveger Stun on hit (Spirit Frenzy) seems better for me than extra Fire dmg. Sadly Branded Enemy seems to do almost no difference in damage done. At least it was totally not noticable.... Dunno how much it does but it wasn't much of a difference testing various damage as you can see above. However overall it seems it terms of Damage: Single Target - Votary>Ravager>Transcendent if target is not resistant to Fire. If target is resistant or immune to Fire Ravager>Trans>Votary. Not bad build but paladin abilities are meh and not as fun as Barbarian ones, Monk ones or Cypher ones. Next I will test Pure Shattered Pillar.

I think Shattered Pillar pure wins because of Resonant Touch and Inner Death. Both do insane dmg. However it terms of Basic Attacks/Torment Reach etc without those I think they will be roughly on same level. I will try to test that after I test Monk/Bleak Walker. The main imo advantage of pure Shattered Pillar is how fast you will get Torments Reach and it's upgrade (AOE stun) which can faceroll most fights at this level easly. But multis are just more fun and Ravager is AOE monster with Torment Reach AOE stun + Carnage, Rooting Pain + Spirit Tornado and Stuns on hit from it. You can stun everything with Spirit Frenzy + Upgraded Torment.

EDIT: Added Votary class (Shattered Pillar/Bleak Walker) at the end of post too. Those are rough damage comparsions between two on lvl 20. Please note I don't calculated anything else - like speed comparsion etc (though Ravager wins here on paper) and DID NOT calculate any Cipher spells here as they were imo not worth over passives and you want to spam soul anihilation anyway as melee. Only his bitting Soul Whip (bitting) + Soul Anihillation were used. Ravager vs Transcendent Race: Human, same Stats for both, NO ADDITIONAL gear (naked). Damage was vs Pirates, some animals and Skeletons/Reventants in cave. The following damage numbers were compared: Basic Attack and crits, Torment Reach and crits, Soul Anihilation and crits, Barbarian Smash and crits, Spirit Tornado and its crits, Carmage and Rooting Pain. For both I used Swift Flurry instead of Lightning strikes. While LS would make this damage here higher, for actual gameplay I think SF is better. But that is irrelevant now. I used all passives for both multis that boost Two Weapon and hits to crit convertion + Turning Wheel for bonus fire damage (the additiona + Damage is always that). Transcendent had Crit Bonus 10% passive while Ravager did not have that passive as I took something else. Base Damage (activated all abilities): Transcendent: 43+12, 44+8, 39+11/47+14, crit 48+14, crit 43+ 12, 190.6 (4 Crit), Crit 80+23 (2 Crit) 134.5 (3 crit) 41+12 crit Ravager: 40+9, crit 66+19/74+21 (Swift Flurry), 44+1. 40+12, 42+9, Crit 52+12, crit 55+16, crit 60+18, crit 56+17 189.1 (5 Crit), 234,5 (1 Hit, 3 Crit), 128 (3 Crit) Torment Reach: Trans: 30+8/28+7 31+7, crit 51+6 /47 +5/52+6/ Ravager: Crit 49+6/54+6/70+8,55+10, base 32+8, 31+8 Soul anihhilation vs Barbarian Smash Soul: crit 59+14, normal 43+12, crit 53+15, crit 57 + 16, Crit 66 +12, crit 52+15, crit 66+9 Barbarian Smash: Crits: 62+18 69+20, 72+21, 62+11, 59+17, 68+13, 66+20, Crit 195.6 dmg (3 Crit) Carnage: 11-18 dmg average around you when there are at least two enemies. Rooting Pain: crits 19+4, 16+4, 21+6. Crits much often for Ravager Spirit Tornado: AOE Crit 80 + 24, 90+14, normal 69 + 12. Overall damage is comparable with few things: Trans has little better base attack dmg due to Soul Whip, but not much. However Ravager is much faster (Bloodlust stacks + Frenzy 25% vs Trans 20% from only Swift Flurry) and crits much often, has more buffs on him, has amazing AOE dmg with Carnage, Torment Reach, Rooting Pain and initial Spirit Tornado. Also as I said - Ravager did not have passive that increase Crit Dmg by 10% as I took other passive (mistake). Also Barbarian smash vs Soul Anihilation: while they do comparable dmg, with little edge on Barbarian Smash here, you can use Barbarian Smash one after each other as it costs 2 Range and if you kill someone- it gives cost back. Whole Soul Anihilation takes your whole Focus and you need to build it back, so you can use couple in a row vs target. It also increases your Carnage area by 50%. Overall I think both are super fun to play as but my vote goes for Ravager. Also +5 to Intellect from Monk DOES NOT CANCEL CONFUSION. It removes it for a split of sec but then it goes back again. You still do friendly dmg and you still can't see your health bar. Hence why I recommend human as you activate Fighting Sprit at Bloodied and also you can take Resistances passive on barbarian that will active when between 50% and 75% HP which can also give you infor how much HP you lost. I know those are super duper tests through out whole game, but at least it will give some insight on both builds. There is also gear later and Dihotomious Spirit that summons two spirits of you (Frost and Flame) and can also boost overall damage. Hope it helps for now. I will do some tests for Pillar/Bleak Walker later and add here. EDIT: Here it is Votary Shattered Pillar/Bleak Walker - maxed dmg from burn/fire + Brand Enemy plus Flames of Devotion (dmg is base + Fire + Corrosive when you see three different numbers). Naked as builds above, human race, increased Crit Damage by 10% (same as Trans, but Ravager did not have it). Base: crit 42+5, crit 52 + 12 (Brand Enemy), (Swift Flurry) 72 + 17 (Brand Enemy), crit 51 + 12 (Brand enemy), crit 42 + 10 (normal), crit 44 + 18 (Normal), (Swift Flurry) crit 83 + 33 (Brand), 34 + 14 + 6, Crit 44 + 23 + 8 (normal), crit 43 + 17 + 7 (Brand), crit 149.5 (3 crit), 35 + 15 + 6 (normal) Torment Reach: Crit 59 + 31 + 10 (Brand), crit 46 + 16 + 8 (Normal), crit 58 + 30 + 10 (normal), crit 59 + 19 + 9 (Branded), Crit 49 + 11 (Brand) Eternal Devotion: crit 60 + 34 + 10, crit 63 + 33 +11 (Brand enemy), crit 67 + 35 + 12 (Brand Enemy), crit 57 + 40 + 10 (Brand Enemy), Crit 65 + 11 (Brand, enemy immune to fire), crit 64 + 34 + 11 It beats both Ravager and Sould Blades' Barbarian Blow and Soul Anihilation AS LONG AS TARGET IS NOT IMMUNE TO FIRE. He get's insane fire damage bonus when using Eternal Devotion + Monk Turning Wheel and fire bonus penetration from Passive. Base is average, little below Ravager, Torment Reach seems weaker. I used Tremondous Blows here to get him same buff as on Ravager as I skipped now Dance of Death. We also have aura here that converts some hits to Crits plus passive that converts hits to crits + Lay down hands for emergency and some other good stuff. But in terms of damage it's better than Ravager barbarian blow for single target (Eternal Devotion) if target is not resistance to Fire. It's much worse AOE than Ravager and it has not as much possible utility as Trans (Pillar/Soul Blade). Also Raveger Stun on hit (Spirit Frenzy) seems better for me than extra Fire dmg. Sadly Branded Enemy seems to do almost no difference in damage done. At least it was totally not noticable.... Dunno how much it does but it wasn't much of a difference testing various damage as you can see above. However overall it seems it terms of Damage: Single Target - Votary>Ravager>Transcendent if target is not resistant to Fire. If target is resistant or immune to Fire Ravager>Trans>Votary. Not bad build but paladin abilities are meh and not as fun as Barbarian ones, Monk ones or Cypher ones. Next I will test Pure Shattered Pillar.

Quick from Swift Strikes grants a speed bonus that stacks with Frenzy. More importantly, you need to take Swift Strikes in order to get Swift Flurry (or Lightning Strikes). So you could replace Swift Strikes with Wild Sprint later in the game, but you wouldn't want to because Swift Flurry/Lightning strikes are so good. OTOH single-class Monk gets Thunderous Blows which grants Tenacious, same Might and Pen bonuses as Beserker Frenzy. But Berserker Frenzy hit-to-crit goes well with Swift Flurry. Wait so Swift Strikes stack with Frenzy or not... I am confused now :D

I also think that Monk has no way to offset Confusion effect. Thought my solution (playing Shattered Pillar/Berserker now) is to simply make rest of the party range and I don't have to worry about Carnage at all as I am the only front liner. I'd say Monk is too good to pass in many multi-class combos, though Paladin is also good. I was thinking about making Shattered Pillar/Bleak Walker combo, but Berserker and naked fists spoke more to me :D

Anyone so far tried Monk/Barbarian? I know Frenzy and Swift Strikes don't stuck but that is also an opportunity to give up one of them and take other talents you'd normally skip to upgrade of those. Shattered Pillar/Berserker looks like nice combo (if you solo or have rest of the party ranged) when you give up either Swift Strikes or Frenzy. Wounds all day with Torments Reach + Carnage proc + 30% Hits to Crit. Anyone tested/played? Thoughts?

Well my question TWO posts above still stands :D Oh sorry, but I thought I answered u in your most broken build thread, single class shattered pillar or nalpazca is best imo. Ok, just wanted to know if Bleak Walker adds something that can outdamage in the end a pure Shattered Pillar monk. Since we don't have any hard math yet so far it seems that pure monk will out damage any Multi Monk in end game. At least that is my impression

Well my question TWO posts above still stands :D

So since Frenzy and Swift Strikes don't stuck- if I go Monk/Barbarian I should pick one and upgrade it and pretty much pick different talents from other class, correct? So between Swift Strikes and Frenzy I think Frenzy is little better for solo? Especially Berserker seems not bad for solo since you don't have to worry about friendly fire. Especially Spirit Frenzy + upgraded Torment Reach looks like nice CC combo (Stagger + Stun all day). But at the same time Frenzy cause penalties while Swift Strikes do not.... So maybe better question would be - who have better other abilities that you could take if you resign from either Frenzy or Swift Strikes? How is btw Monk/Barbarian vs Monk/Soul Blade vs pure Shatter Monk in your opinion?

Sry, wrong thread.

Would instead Shattered Pillar/Bleak walker work too? I know it will lack self heal of Kind but it also won't have Hellwalker extra damage taken. Especially now that Might seems to be additive I think Pillar is not that far behind Hellwalker in terms of damage. What do you think?

So that makes Hellwalker not that much better dmg wise than other monks now. Since now it's additive he will have huge dimishing return at max Wounds if it works like in POE. Good, I can now make more balanced build for monk instead of packing in Might everything. Perception for Monk Cipher and Monk/Barbarian is what I wanted to invest into since start, but Might was too important.

It's so obviously "OP" that there must be significant game mechanisms to counteract it---aside from just requiring a lot of wounds. The devs can overlook things but they're not completely incompetent. Lol, you really belive that? I guess you don't remember pillars of eternity barbarian retaliation build at all :D. Devs always miss a lot of most broken builds/combos in game simply because they have no time to test every possible combo/mechanic. Especiall Obsidian which is quite small team compare to huge developers, who also oversight a lot of stuff like that. I could tell you a lot of examples from various RPGs that have broken stuff like that till today and every new RPG have things like that. As I said, they can overlook some combos. But this is just extremely obvious +a gazillion damage on crit with the +100 accuracy on empower right next to it. They'd have to be completely incompetent to play single class Monk and not see it. And it's possible. They would not build in-game mechanics just to make sure they counter as you said yourself "obvious" broken combo- that would not make sense at all. It's probably a simple mistake in numbers, for example +500% instead of 100% or lower that was supposed to be there but they got numbers wrong. Actually numbers tweaking is most common in RPG-like games after release, as some numbers were simply too low or too high. Remember that when you make and test game you use **** ton of different game builds, some for close beta, some for inner testing, some for alpha, beta etc etc. I know, I worked in industry. It's very easy that a lot of things from different builds are overlooked in the end when release build (final) hits. Besides in single-player RPG game- who cares if there are some broken stuff there? If people will want they will use console and give themself godmode anyway. It's not PvP. Well the mechanisms to counter it have already been confirmed by the ability trees for Paladin, Fighter, Priest, Chanter, and Druid. Any class ability a player can access can also be accessed by enemies of that class. So they're in the game. And Eothas literally self-resurrects at the start of the game, so I'll bet he has it too. Immunities to specific damage types are also supposed to be a major part of the game, so immunity to crush damage will reduce damage from this ability to 0. (Lashes are applied after immunities, right? And since lash is a multiplier, it would also be 0.) Defensive % crit-to-hit and hit-to-graze are also already confirmed in the game, though 100% crit-to-hit would be a boring solution.... No it doesn't work like that. Never in any RPG enemies were equal to players in terms of access to abilities/spells etc. It would be nightmare to balance. How do you see a fight vs several paldins that can self ressurect all the time? It would be stupid and frustraiting to play against. Enemy ressurect mechanic for common enemies would basicelly make combat a chore. Besides we all started to paly game already and soon we will see if there are any self-ressurects on enemies.... which sound like fantasy.... in fantasy game :D

It's so obviously "OP" that there must be significant game mechanisms to counteract it---aside from just requiring a lot of wounds. The devs can overlook things but they're not completely incompetent. Lol, you really belive that? I guess you don't remember pillars of eternity barbarian retaliation build at all :D. Devs always miss a lot of most broken builds/combos in game simply because they have no time to test every possible combo/mechanic. Especiall Obsidian which is quite small team compare to huge developers, who also oversight a lot of stuff like that. I could tell you a lot of examples from various RPGs that have broken stuff like that till today and every new RPG have things like that. As I said, they can overlook some combos. But this is just extremely obvious +a gazillion damage on crit with the +100 accuracy on empower right next to it. They'd have to be completely incompetent to play single class Monk and not see it. And it's possible. They would not build in-game mechanics just to make sure they counter as you said yourself "obvious" broken combo- that would not make sense at all. It's probably a simple mistake in numbers, for example +500% instead of 100% or lower that was supposed to be there but they got numbers wrong. Actually numbers tweaking is most common in RPG-like games after release, as some numbers were simply too low or too high. Remember that when you make and test game you use **** ton of different game builds, some for close beta, some for inner testing, some for alpha, beta etc etc. I know, I worked in industry. It's very easy that a lot of things from different builds are overlooked in the end when release build (final) hits. Besides in single-player RPG game- who cares if there are some broken stuff there? If people will want they will use console and give themself godmode anyway. It's not PvP.