Brimsurfer

I agree, for example I dislike Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate because the gods' existence is accepted as an uncontested and universal truth and I can't role play as an atheist. There are cults in Forgotten Realms that believe in strength of will and other things but not any Gods....... BTW you are actually acting like an atheist by coming up with nonsensical arguments........and don't ask me what cults I am talking about, you can read up FR lore on your own and find out, you know how to read, I am guessing......

When something is revealed the game acts as if it has been revealed to you! Quelle horreur! Go on then. What is the writer's personal disposition in real life and how does it influence the story. Its already been discussed before....... I am identifying a trend in your posts.......now if I end my post here, judging from the matter of your previous posts, I am sure you will ask me 'what trend is that?' before ending your own post abruptly...and to that I will say, 'you know what I am talking about, sir.....'

Sounds like the writers were damned if they do, damned if they don't. Would you feel the writer was biased and pushing his thoughts on you if the story ended with all gods were real and infallible? How could the story have ended end satisfactorily to you? That's not true, i guess there will be some criticism always, but defending blatant and biased story telling by saying that writers are always damned no matter which way they go, is not justified...... I have already said what could have rendered the story unbiased, but its not up to me, it was up to the writer to be unbiased in the story telling......... I have only this to say, I am against portraying a concept as an uncontested or universal truth of any world and push the protagonist forward in such scenario by taking all opportunity away from him to create a contrast ......

Thats only you mate as for CS Lewis's Narnia, the Christian concepts are not the universally accepted truths of the World of Narnia.......read my last post please for a bit more on this.......

Strange you would use C.S. Lewis's Narnia series as an example of an author NOT shoving religion down someone's throat. Tolkien (an uber Catholic was a close friend of Lewis and is the one who converted him to Christianity in the first place) even thought the series' christian themes were too blunt and heavy handed. How could PoE have ended that would have been more acceptable to you, honestly curious. I am talking about CS Lewis's fantasy work only not his other writings and as for Narnia, the setting of World of Narnia was balanced between paganism, christianity and roman religeous concepts and the book does not accepts Christian concepts as universal truths of that World, character of Aslan may be symbolically based on Christ although with some questionable traits, but the story telling is so balanced that the book was actually criticised by the church for selling 'soft paganism and occultism' for quite a while after coming out.... However after seeing the popularity of the series, churches incorporated the tales of narnia in their songs and stuff focusing only on Christian ideas in the book and literally sticking to the idea that Aslan is Christ ignoring the rest of the setting of the world of Narnia......... but its typical of Christians, they condemn something for being something and when it becomes successful they go back on their previous accusations and incorporate it in their curriculum focusing on anything that resembles their ideology........its bloody pretentious.....and despite all of that Christian concepts are not the universal truths of the World of Narnia........ Here in PoE the game accepts the idea of a world tricked into believing in unreal gods as a universal truth and the story in the final act unfolds only with this realisation, although there was plenty of room in the game's plot to go in multiple directions before the final act but in the final act the story shamelessly narrowed down to the writer's personal disposition in real life and that's what called as biased, impure or contaminated storytelling. Like I said, all opportunity was taken from the player that would suggest otherwise (i felt like my wings were chopped and I felt trapped on the ground because before final act I was flying high....), there isn't even a single dialogue path or any contemplation that would indicate that there might be a possibility of actual Gods in the world of Eora or to suggest that there were flaws in Iovara's findings, even Thaos also failed to deny it......... there was only and only one message that was bluntly passed to players in the final act, all doors and corridors were deliberately closed and the game purposefully pushed the player in a singular direction that, 'the idea of existence of Gods is a lie, it is all just an elaborate and twisted plan to keep the affairs of the world in order........' I mean how blunt a story teller can get in his bias.....its just ridiculous.......

Its funny how people keep repeating the same stuff over and over again, but its just so plainly apparent from the dialogue of final act, that personal dispositions of the writer got the better of him and he strayed off the path of true creativity and story writing..... I don't see a son of God crucified in Tolkein stories neither do I see absence of God seeping through R. R. Martins writing nor do I see personal dispositions of C. S. Lewis distorting his fantasy tales.......this is not the way that you let your personal disposition get the better of you and you destroy a potentially great plot just to colour it with the shade of your personal and subjective ideologies......and denying a player any opportunity to suggest otherwise.......the whole dialogue of the final act went in one direction that Gods are a lie and people of Eora are misled into believing them.....and not a single dialogue option to suggest otherwise......and characters in the story also seem to accept it without much argument and story moves forward by accepting this as a universal truth....... Its just blatant disregard for unhindered creativity......... Once again, I am not a religious person, to the people who are assuming I am religious, but it burns me to see when someone vomits their own personal ideologies into another's face without regards for much.....

In response to the title, I hope its not another cheap lump of atheistic crap, like PoEs main story.........final act of PoE was shamefully disappointing in this regard, felt like I was reading a piece from some kind of atheist text......don't want to see this again, absolutely....

Why is this topic sitting in way off topics? The posts that strayed off the topic should have been stoppped, instead of moving the whole topic to a new and entirely unrelated section........I started this topic as the feedback of the impression I got from the last act.......... The lead designer of the game is trying to shove his personal nihilist beliefs and dispositions down peoples throat and when its pointed out, you move the topic to a section that's entirely unrelated to the game, instead of stopping the off topic posts......... So disappointing.......gonna start the similar topic on reddit now........ Bye

That's kind of what I have in mind, i just hope its viable in PoTD.......

yes sort of thinking frontline Pale Elf, Heavy Armor Priest or Paladin............cant decide between Priest or Paladin

I am currently trying to decide a class for a new PoTD campaign, kind of torn between Priest or Paladin.......looking at Priest of Magran, seems kind of interesting disposition and RP-wise, also would be great to wield Steadfast as Magran's favoured weapon....... but is there really a point in playing one if I take Durance along too? Are there any protagonist specific Priest of Magran scenarios or dialogue paths? I know in my previous playthrough, there was one quest that I could have done differently if I was Priest of Magran, but I can't think of anything else....

Would you say Pallid Knight manifestation of Berath, is a Paladin or a Priest class-wise?

Post 3.0 which Paladin Order would be most effective? Thinking about rolling a Paladin protagonist.......some say Kind Wayfarer is way better than other orders, is that true? Thanks

They are not Gods, they are false gods creations of ancient Engwithans, game fails to say what kind of beings they are but it made it very clear that they are false gods......since a true God can't be created, he creates instead... So the Forgotten Realms (D&D) gods aren't real gods either? Or what about the greek/roman ones from our cultures? Edited: (was going off topic myself ) The ones that are creation of men are not true Gods....... In BG lore some people of exceptional power may be able to rise or ascend to a station of deity through various feats though......but you know this already I don't know why you asked...... Who the hell is talking about about D&D or any other real word deities? We are talking about PoE lore and PoE makes specific assertion that the so called deities of Eora are not actual Gods, but they are creations of Engwithans, the game is crystal clear on this, can't be any clearer....... I disagree with the assertion that the PoE gods are not gods, because the same arguments that disqualifty them would also disqualify gods from most other pantheons. Even the game itself does not take this as a fact as several characters keep on worshiping them after learning the truth. Way I see i tthe gods weren't always gods (cause they didn't exist), but they are gods now. They are actually more real than the gods of our earth religions since they actually make appearances, answer prayers and all that and souls in the PoE setting are a tangligbe thing that has been confirmed to exist. They are not Gods, they are the creation of ancient engwithans, game makes it very clear, only the people who doesn't know this secret think they are real Gods....the characters who know the secret and still serve a certain so called deity, do so only because they realise that entity possesses great power, as made clear by Hiravias and Durance dialogue, but they have no illusions about that entity being a real God..... Also I edited my last post to add on it......

They are not Gods, they are false gods creations of ancient Engwithans, game fails to say what kind of beings they are but it made it very clear that they are false gods......since a true God can't be created, he creates instead... So the Forgotten Realms (D&D) gods aren't real gods either? Or what about the greek/roman ones from our cultures? Edited: (was going off topic myself ) The ones that are creation of men are not true Gods....... In BG lore some people of exceptional power may be able to rise or ascend to a station of deity through various feats though......but you know this already I don't know why you asked...... Who the hell is talking about about D&D or any other real word deities? We are talking about PoE lore and PoE makes specific assertion that the so called deities of Eora are not actual Gods, but they are creations of Engwithans (probably some kind of Vessels to which some of the powerful engwithans ascended, to have dominion over generations of people to come, my guess), and people are fooled to believe in them as Gods..... the game is crystal clear on this, can't be any clearer.......doesn't even give you any choice to even hint or suggest otherwise..... P.S. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if we later find out that Woedica, Berath, Magran and all the rest of the them are some ancient powerful engwithans who some how tied their life force to very powerful Vessels and ascended to false Godhood to preside over generations of people to come.....currently existing on a plane in between or somewhere away from the reach of common folk....but its just me......although I do think this will establish an appealing theme for the sequel and it may be able to take us away from all the nihilism in the final act....

They are not Gods, they are false gods, creations of ancient Engwithans, game fails to say what kind of beings they are, i am thinking some kind of Vessels may be, but its purely a guess....... the game made it very clear that there are no true gods, there are only false gods........and it conveniently fails to make any assertion in opposite direction and this is readily accepted by everyone in the game and protagonist is given no dialogue choice to choose from to suggest otherwise...... Its all so very convenient......

'Of a world absent Gods, fooled to believe in unreal Gods by bunch of people who like to keep people in line and maintain a twisted order.... but man's will and spirituality is above any deity' ........ Heard that one before? Yes!!! a billion ****ing times.......... would you move the **** on already, rusty cogs in your grey matter are making my ears bleed....... --------------- This probably happened from creativity falling victim to ignorance where someone (full of himself) thought lets just feed my own personal dispositions to the world..........

Yea the reason I was sceptical about riposte is that it only triggers on 20% of the misses, which is not a lot, if the chance to trigger could be improved later on in the game then probably it would make sense but right now, I guess it doesn't make sense to devote my whole build to a mechanic that has only 20% chance to trigger only if a melee enemy misses me.....

You can agree with Thaos on the point that 'Gods are indeed unreal but the concept of God is needed to keep people in order'..........this is kind of a loaded idea......telling kids that there is no such thing as Gods and people who believe in Gods know that Gods don't exist but people believe anyway to keep the illusion alive, so that order can be kept........which ultimately means that belief in a deity is a faulty and misguided disposition........ The game pushes the players in this direction deliberately as no dialogue options are given in disagreement of this theory........all NPCs involved also accept this theory...... I loaded the game multiple times to find an alternate dialogue options but all dialogue paths lead to this same conclusion...... Honestly this is bull****.....

And you've got a bunch of people in this thread explaining to you how it's not 'as it is'. You can feel however you like about whatever, but people have explained in various ways how the game does not argue what you think it argues. Here: the game's point is that here is a fantasy world where everyone thinks these gods are real and it turns out that they are, but they were created by some ancient race. Are these gods still gods? Should people still believe in them? Is it right or wrong to tell them about this truth? If you think that is pushing an agenda then OK. My point of disagreement with them is that, they are rationalising, they are filling the blanks with their reasoning, not calling it as it is.......... Dont give it benefit of doubt....... All I am saying that the intentions with story telling doesn't seem pure........it distinctively feels like there is more at play here........ EDIT: Anyway, that's how I felt after playing the game, and I shared it........and if anyone ask me about the game.....I'ld say its got great gameplay but story telling is pushing an idea, its not sincere.......

That is completely untrue. There is no proof in the existence of a deity that has ever been formally presented nor acknowledged. In fact, the entire concept of "faith" entails maintaining a belief despite the complete lack of proof. Disagreed.......

But the game at no point makes any assertion that Iovora could be wrong as well and that there is a distinct possibility that the deities are real and are superior to man's will and spirituality.... game fails to make similar assertion at every point and yet its an RPG, that denies a player a crucial aspect of the role to play in this setting......all player dialogue choices are along the same lines which suggested all of the above that I have been saying........ You're not understanding the point. The gods are false, that's not what it's in doubt, it's the fact that the engwithan found no proof of a god that gave them purpuse, much like our own world. If there's a real deity in Eora, like ours, doesn't care and doesn't manifest in the world. That's the dilema that starts the plot. Thaos saw the question of a god existence unanswered and made his own, Iovara, after knowing about the falsehood of the gos, faced the same question, and arrived to the opposite conclusion. That's the point of the game, questions above answers. You are filling the blanks with your reasoning, the game doesn't make that assertion that there may be a real deity or deities in Eora, doesn't even mention a single theory or a name that may be associated to such a deity in entire history of Eora, in any of the scattered books, i read all of them....... and btw our world does not lack the proof that there is a deity.............. I reloaded the game again and again to try to find a dialogue option which would suggest that both Iovora or Thaos could be wrong but there is none and the game only pushed me in a single direction, where the gods are a lie and believing such a lie only caused strife and conflict in the world and man's will and spirituality is superior to such a belief..........sounds like someone is trying to make youngsters' mind for them....... Game fails to explain what these beings are that were created by Engwithans and are referred to as Gods (misguidedly) by the common folk of Eora, who are not privy to the Secret as it was revealed in the end game........... BTW I am not a religious fellow, I am who I am and I am calling it as it is and I don't like it when someone tries to push an idea, in disguise, in someone else's face...... or when someone tries to make up youngsters' mind for them....... I have played other games with deities and religious systems and fantastical political ideologies, many are among my favourites, never had issues with any of them, but about PoE I am not sure, if the intentions of some of the people involved in development, were so pure with story telling.......

Yes the ending is kind of hamfisted but that's not what I meant and not everybody disagrees with me, game does relay an underlying political / non religious value and to me it felt like that it was done to the extent where it kind of ruined the game, at least for me.... Why was the game ruined by relaying an underlying value? Because then its not care free fun anymore, somebody is trying to push something in my face deliberately, doesn't that ruin your fun? No, I enjoy plot twists and I also enjoy stories which have the potential for applicability to the real world. And yet it was argued above that it is just a story and has no implications on real world ............

Yes the ending is kind of hamfisted but that's not what I meant and not everybody disagrees with me, game does relay an underlying political / non religious value and to me it felt like that it was done to the extent where it kind of ruined the game, at least for me.... Why was the game ruined by relaying an underlying value? Because then its not care free fun anymore, somebody is trying to push something in my face deliberately, doesn't that ruin your fun?

But the game at no point makes any assertion that Iovora could be wrong as well and that there is a distinct possibility that the deities are real and are superior to man's will and spirituality.... game fails to make similar assertion at every point but it made the opposite assertion at every opportunity............................and yet its an RPG, that denies a player a crucial aspect of the role to play in this setting......all player dialogue choices are along the same lines which suggested all of the above that I have been saying........