Madscientist

OK, that means we have a new damage formula: If the modifier is a bonus we have like: sneak attack = +50% -> step = 0.5 If the modifier is a penalty we have like: graze = +50% -> step = 1 - 1/1-0.5 = -1 Now we add all steps If the sum of steps is positive we have: damage done = base damage * 1 + sum of all steps ( same formula as PoE1 ) If the sum of steps is negative we have: damage done = base damage/ 1 - sum of all steps Unlike the beta, might, over and under penetration, crit and graze are all normal steps, nothing is multiplicative anymore. ---------------------------------------- Is the stuff I have written above the line correct or did they change it to something completely different? It would be nice if somebody can confirm this. I would be happy if this was correct, because in the latest beta maxing might was a no brainer for all damage classes.

I already know what my first char will be, but the problem is that after deciding for this char I had lots of time to think about what other chars might be great. And I have a second problem: While I would like to actually role play a game, my min maxing optimization obsession always wins. I have found a very interesting idea for a build, and than I optimized it so much that not much remained of it except that it still has the same classes.

Do you remember the good old days when all games were perfectly balanced? Like the IE games or arcanum. Wait a sec . . . you really want to play a mage -> fighter, you give sword profiencies to your fighter and want to dual class to cleric, your mage has low int and you really want to play PST with a fighter who puts all of his points in str, con and dex? Yes, I said its balanced . . . but only if you know the OP combinations Do you remember the not so old times when PoE1 was released and we had many different threads like " easy mode is too hard", "hard mode is too easy" and "normal mode is too normal". You can look in the PoE1 part of this forum or you can wait some days and see the same stuff here again. Nietsche was right, history is repeating itself again and again. Now I wait for the tread "story mode has too much story"

Does attacking party members count as combat? You could unequip a fighters weapon ( so you do little damage), attack a companion and activate his per buff, then stop attacking at once. In the beta when I did not have a char with high per, most traps were discovered by my fighter in combat. This means I will have Eder in my party, he gets a fighter/rogue and the mechanics skill.

Is single or multi class more powerful? answer: it depends on Some top level abilities look extremely good, like barbariens make a full attack when they get crit, heart of fury and getting rage back on kill. But there will also be many synergies between 2 classes. Is single class or multi class more versatile? answer: it depends on Usually you specialize your char on something, maybe "versatile" means he is specialized on doing several different things above average instead of being extremely good in one thing. My best ideas for multi class so far: berserker/soul blade: killing machine that gets tons of bonusses when you kill an enemy. devoted/helwalker: helwalker gives you 2 abilities that lets you attack again when you crit and the might bonus, devoted gives you increased crit chance and cleaveing stance

Thanks, this is much better than searching the video and pausing if you look for an ability. Now I really want a devoted/helwalker Monks will have 2 abilities that can cause another attack when they crit, more attack speed, might bonus and fire lash. Fighter gives you more crits, cleaving stance, more damage per hit plus passive healing. Would be a mountain dwarf with max might and max constitution. The racial ability reduces chance for constitution and healing loss because you take much damage.

If there is no limit I could think of a way to play the game in easy mode: Have a party with 5 multi classed beckoners. They are multi classed with: 1.) paladin: auras and shared devotion 2.) priest: masters of buffing and healing 3.) cipher: more spells for buff, debuff and damage 4.) wizard: even more debuff and damage spells 5.) whatever you want. Use a single class for summoning 2 dragons or maybe multi class with druid to stick to the path of more buff, debuff, healing and damage spells Each of them starts with the skelleton summons. Chant fire lash, ancient memory, damage shield and whatever you want to keep your army happy. Use the spells of the other class mostly for buffs and debuffs, your summons do most of the damage. Now imagine those 5 attack a fortress: We: Surrender or we will overrun this fortress! enemy commander: You and what army? We: * * * each of them summons 6 skelletons and the priest can cast "barring deaths doors" on the frontline * * *

I agree with Josh to focus on bug fixing over PotD balancing. PoE1 was a buggy mess at release and I had to quit my first playthrough because of bugs. This is much more annoying than uneven difficulty, and every player has a different opinion about what is difficult or easy. The beta of PoE2 was good to play without many game breaking bugs. I hope this continues when the full game is released. So far, players could get to level 9. When players can use all levels it is easier to find things that are too powerful or too useless. Its hard to balance something when only a handful of devs could test it.

Like other people already said: Everything looks nice except ranger and rogue maybe. Looks like some things I want to play look really good: sharpshooter/rogue: dual wield guns and let enemies bleed barbarien/soul blade: Lots of on kill effects It looks like many high level talents are used to make empowered abilities much more powerful. Empower can only be used once per encounter. So you put most of your resources into a single very powerful attack.

Aumaua kind wayfarer/beckoner explorer from the deadfire. I continue with my last main char from PoE1, a kind wayfarer. His damage was not so great in PoE1, so I chose to make him an army general instead of trying to make a damage monster out of him.

Why would depositions make the game more difficult? Do you think there will be many situations where you cannot avoid benelovent or diplomatic choices? Even if you chose the wrong deposition sometimes, all it does is lowering your defensis a bit. Unless you wish to tank things on PotD this should not be a big issue.

So regarding damage and speed we can give the following rule of thumb: Stack as many bonusses as possible and avoid penalties like hell. If you cannot avoid a penalty ( like you wish to fight in heavy armor regarding speed or you wish to activate a modal that lowers damage ) you might as well add some more penalties if you think they give a useful advantage in return. Regarding stacking: all passive stuff stacks but active stuff does not. passive = talents that give a bonus but you cannot use this talent as active ability, all equipment active = abilities you have to activate ( like frenzy ), potions, auras, weapon modals Is that correct? The list of active and passive stuff is definitely not complete, but I think Boeroer confirmed the general rule that passives stack and actives do not.

My personal favourite was the system of Drakensang: Armor absorbs damage ( like PoE1 ) up to the point that hits cause only 1 point damage. The downside of armor is that it lowers your hit chance and increases your chance to get hit. Heavier armor absorbs more damage but it hinders you more. In PoE terms, armor gives you DR but lowers acc and deflection. You could learn special attacks that ignore armor pertially or do extra damage at the cost of stamina. So use an attack that causes tripple damage against enemies with low DR and faint ( +hit chance and ignoring half DR ) against enemies with high DR. Idiot me attacked a stone golem with a tripple damage attack and did incredible 3 damage. The system of PoE1 would be my second best system. The system of DnD 2nd and 3rd edition ( IE games and NWN 1+2 ) make no sense to me. A person in full plate armor can dodge attacks easier than a naked person, but when they get hit they take the same damage. All systems above have the advantage that getting a better armor always gives you a better protection. The system of PoE2 is terrible. Either be naked or stack AR as much as possible. Most things in between make you slower but you do not take less damage. As an attacker, stack penetration and reduce enemy AR and you overpenetrate all the time ( until they add some dragons with super high AR, where it will be hard to do any damage at all. Stacking bleeding effects might be useful there.)

So basically its the same, you just need triple disc space. I am not an expert for graphic cards so I do not know what is good. Anyway, I could play the beta without problems, so I should be fine.

This was my comment to the damage formula from the other thread: So this means: - If there is only a single modifier the effect is exactly what it says: sneak attack = +50% damage, graze = -50% damage - If there are several bonusses and no penalties the bonusses are added: 50% sneak attack + 40% biting whip = +90% damage - If there are several penalties and no bonusses the penalties have diminishing returns, which means that several penalties result in a bigger penalty than every single one of them but the total penalty is smaller than the sum of all penalties ( because otherwise you could have negative damage ) - If you have both bonusses and penalties, the penalties have a bigger wight than the bonusses result: If you have several bonusses and penalties it is impossible to determine the effect of each modifier unless you are a math expert or you use a calculator. It is hard to tell if a specific combination of modifiers result in more or less damage than normal. The combat log will be confusing for many players because the can see +X% damage from something and -Y%damage from something else but the numbers do not add up.

Here is the correct damage formula for beta version 4: I do not know if the formula from MaxQuest I have posted earlier was correct during beta version 2 or if he made a mistake. Many thanks to kmbogd for finding it out. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Every dmg bonus/malus has an actual "step" associated to it. Since damage bonuses are positive in nature their step is positive and equal to the percentage damage increase. Some examples of steps of dmg bonuses: Weapon specialization bonus(+10% dmg) => step=0.1 Crit damage bonus (+25% dmg) => step=0.25 Sneak attack bonus (+50% dmg) => step=0.5 In the case of maluses the formula for the step is a bit different: 1-1/(1-malus). Here are some examples of steps of dmg maluses: Graze malus (-50%) => step=1-1/(1-0.5)=1-1/0.5=1-2=-1 Light under-penetration (-25%) => step=1-1/(1-0.25)=1-1/0.75=1-4/3=-0.333 Severe under-penetration (-75%) => step=1-1/(1-0.75)=1-1/0.25=1-4=-3 Now, all the steps of the dmg bonus and maluses (except might) are summed up together. If the sum is >=0 you have the formula that you mentioned: rolled_dmg * (Step_SUM + 1) * MightModifier. For example if the sum steps turns out to be 0.75 then your damage would be rolled_dmg (0.75+1) * MightModifier. If the sum is <0 you have the following formula: rolled_dmg/(1-Step_SuM) * MightModifier. For example if the sum of the steps turns out to be -0.75 then yout damage would be rolled_dmg/(1-(-0.75)) * MightModifier = rolled_dmg/1.75 * MightModifier Might has a step of it's own computed in the same way as for the other bonuses/maluses. If the the step is positive (at least 10 might): MightModifier=1+MightStep. If the step is negative (below 10 Might): MightModifier=1/(1-MightStep).

OK, looks like I did something wrong. Sorry:

I have found the ultimate example why the new damage formula is dumb. Imagine you have a 1% bonus and a 50% penalty. Now look at the sum of all modifiers: 1 + 0.01 - 1 = 0.01 With a 50% penalty and no bonus you do 50% damage (so far, so good) With a 50% penalty and 1% bonus you do 1% damage generally speaking: Under certain conditions adding a bonus to a penalty can result in lower damage than if you had only the penalty. Does anybody know another game where adding a bonus to something results in a drop of this something? EDIT: Sorry, but this example is false. Please ignore the stuff above

Thank you This was the formula I did not know: If the sum is <0 you have the following formula: rolled_dmg/(1-Step_SuM) * MightModifier. So this means: - If there is only a single modifier the effect is exactly what it says: sneak attack = +50% damage, graze = -50% damage - If there are several bonusses and no penalties the bonusses are added: 50% sneak attack + 40% biting whip = +90% damage - If there are several penalties and no bonusses the penalties have diminishing returns, which means that several penalties result in a bigger penalty than every single one of them but the total penalty is smaller than the sum of all penalties ( because otherwise you could have negative damage ) - If you have both bonusses and penalties, the penalties have a bigger wight than the bonusses EDIT: The example I have gives was wrong. result: If you have several bonusses and penalties it is impossible to determine the effect of each modifier unless you are a math expert or you use a calculator. It is hard to tell if a specific combination of modifiers result in more or less damage than normal. The combat log will be confusing for many players because the can see +X% damage from something and -Y%damage from something else but the numbers do not add up. I think the speed calculation has the same issues. I have to look there again. So much about PoE2 mechanics are easier to understand than PoE1. At some point I have suggested: - keep the old formula from PoE1: final damage = base damage * ( 1 + sum of all modifiers ( including might) ) - If 1+sum is very small or negative you do a minimum damage that is X% of base damage. result of my suggestion: - Bonusses and penalties have the same wight - You can easily determine the final modifier by adding all individual modifiers - The bonus does always what the description says ( relative to base damage ) I cannot make or play a game with my suggestion so it may have downsides I do not know.

Thanks Voss for your analysis. So the basic statement stays the same: Go naked or stack AR like crazy. Everything below heavy armor is useless, except maybe for preventing overpenetration. If you go against enemies with very high penetration ( like dragons I guess ) go naked or take an armor that gives you a good special ability. I think a the highest might affliction is the only thing that can lower enemy penetration ( I am not sure.) This could be very powerful, though I guess the really hard enemies will have resistance. EDIT: Its the level 2 might affliction ( dazed ) so it should work on resistent enemies if you try to stunn them.

So the new formula is: final damage = ( base damage * ( 1 + sum of all modifiers )) * might bonus If the modifier is a bonus we have: sneak attack is a bonus = 50%, that means the modifier is 0.5 If the modifier is a penalty we have: graze penalty = 50%, that means the modifier = 1 - 1/value = 1 - 1/0.5 = -1 For the last step I am not sure. It is one of the two following things: - If (1 + sum of all modifiers) is positive, we use this value. If it is negative we use 1 - 1/(1+sum of all modifiers) - If ( sum of all modifiers ) is positive, we use this value. If it is negative we use 1 - 1/sum of all modifiers I guess its the first option ( inversion if 1+sum of all midifiers is negative) because in the second option we would never have a damage penalty and the damage done would always be above base damage. But in the first option the damage can get extremely low if (1+sum) is positive but very small. In this case an increased penalty would raise the damage because now the number is negative and gets inverted. Can somebody please explain this. Both things make no sense. Either you have never a penalty or you are in a position where an increased penalty can give a damage bonus.

Holy crap. So we have: - A 50% bonus like sneak attack adds 50% of base damage as final damage ( +0,5 = +0,5) - A 50% penalty like graze lowers the number by 100% of base damage (1 - 1/0,5) = -1 If this is correct, saying " graze lowers damage by 50%" feels completely wrong, no matter how you put it.

There are several different kinds of cloth from different parts of the world. But I am still hoping for noble cloth for both man and woman. It would be nice to have some decent cloth for your parade after you save the city from a dragon

Currently you have the option between two extremes: - play a naked char and try to kill enemies as fast as possible. You should have a good defense and some ways of healing. - Stack as much AR as possible and accept that you are slow as hell Everything in between means that you will take lots of damage AND you are also very slow. I liked the system of PoE1 better. Every point of DR you got had at least some use. Now most armor is useless unless you have tons of AR. ( critical hits increase penetration by 50%)

But that doesn't jibe. We forum goers represent what, ~1/10 of 1% of the userbase? I cant imagine that developers would design entire system to prevent the use of <x> just due to forum users feedback. Developers develop games for the people who buy them. The devs ( or better, the company who hires them ) want to sell as many copies as possible. But they also need some feedback from others to tell if their product is good. The freaks in this forum are most qualified to tell what is OP or what must be changed, because nobody else tries so hard to find OP stuff in order to solo the game naked, or whatever they want to do. The devs are not forced to listen to anybody ( except the one who pays them), but I guess the feedback from the top 100 posters in this forum can be more useful than the feedback of 100,000 other players, assuming those other players give any feedback at all.