Brdavs

1) He announced it JFK style? 2) So the fact they`re not western is a handicap? Chinas space programme has some grand plans in motion, including a premanent space station. But I think you missed my point: Reammurgence of ambitious rival space programmes in ideologicaly different blocks will again add the spark to the space race by once again making it into a pissing contest. After the race to the moon the pace slowed down somewhat heh, a race to mars is just what the doctor ordered. That`s the proverbial human exploration spirit for you... doesn`t matter that there`s something out there... until some1 trys to get there that is, in that case we MUST get there first Oh and there are plenty of resources out ther, including on the moon. Helium3 for one has fusion peeps droolong I believe.... Again, I`m talking about the inicitives such as the x-prize... out of the box innovations that may be stummbeled uppon. Contractors that charge goverments for tin foil to wrap the spacesandwiches are not independant contractors as far as I`m concerned heh. monopoly is bad ;P As for the government argument... I really see no huge benefit of governments leading the way. I moreso see the huge risk of ever increasing militarization of space and territorial disputes "offworld". UN needs its space angency heh. and it should be THE space agency USA turned down Russian proposal for a joint mission to Mars I hear... so much for governments working together for the greater good heh... Gotta make sure the right colours fly on them spacerocks yep yep hehe...

I won`t be holding my breath heh... What`s Bushes timeframe to reach Mars again lol? Thoe with Chinese everincreasing abitions regarding space and Russias comeback things may yet again pick up . Personally I`m pinning my hopes on private enterprises and inovators finding new and cheaper ways to "get up there" and for things to pick up from there.

Funnly enough Sand is the prime torch carrier when it comes to anti China discusions lol... But back to topic, if I were a citizen of a country in the elite club of practicisng legalised murder (counting 95% of totalitarian and hard line religious regimes) I`d take a hint heh... for Christs sake even the "commie bastards" in Moscow haven`t executed anyone in 15 odd years heh. Death is all too second nature and a reflex response in some areas of the world... This day and age there`s something seriously wrong with that im(vh)o.

I`ve been following the series form the start but I`ve got to say the artwork has gone down a bit. Hepburn cant hold a candle to Ching, Weaver and Dazo... Or maybe that`s just me and my preferance for the less "cartoony" work they seem to produce...

So you`re saying terrorism is not really evil but an outcry of people so desperate for a change for the better and so devoid of other political means to bring about that change that they resort to violence and taking theirown lives as they`re pushed into fanaticism? I could actually get behind that idea of yours, you know... Instead of blowing ppl up we`d give them a chance of a life worthy of a human being... instead of putting more "boots on the ground" we`d stop the "cultural rape"... you get the picture heh... ;P

And they say "turning into the very thing you`re fighting against" is just an old outworn clich

Actually I was thinking of the ORB survey wich actually stated 1.2mil deathes but I for one am opened to the idea the numbers could be inflated so I opted to round the number. You`re throwing partisanity and dubious sources and estimations to my face? That`s a good one coming from a stern supporter taking every report with a ".gov" slapped on it heh. We`re both inteligent, we both realise statistic is a whore to any and all willing to ask. Independant agencies are no worse that the "official" numbers, heck it`s bad PR to have a body count equaling a small genocide. Fine. Let`s say the truth is in the middle. 500k violent deaths in Iraq since the beggining of the invasion. Does the fact that it`s now not a 7 digit number make it any better or help you sleep at night? How can I not be partisan agains western intervetionism and the Iraq war when you operate with human lives like it`s monopoly money! As long as it`s not coalition lives, ofcourse. As far as "them" are concerned, the fact that "civilian deaths are falling" can be touted as a huge victory making it all worth while eh. Btw if I were really hardcore partisan I`d say those numbers are falling cos civilians are being classified as combatants whenever possible. And the daydreams you`re having about "Iraqi government not being mere pawns of the Coalition" are simply mind-blowing. Honestly, there is no level of astonishment to describe the naivitee of such a statement. But hey, to each hisown heh. I for one base my conclusion on what I see and the track record demonstrated in such matters, both recent one and well in the past. Iraq is about as soverign as the keyboard I`m just using. Ofcourse economic indicators are up. Oil flows, that`s the point. + The falling dollar helps. Not to mention all the multinationals that now moved in capitalising on the chicago boys paradise "tabula rasa" that is Iraqi society... They`ve truly managed to create a paradox in Iraq, I`ll give them that... an econimic state that is by the numbers doing great while the society around it implodes. A neo-liberal paradise.

The same ♠thing that is wrong with China viewing Tibet form a selfish patriotic standpoint heh? Some would say nothing at all and some would say everything I guess. Pick your flavour.

I cant be arsed/capable to produce counterarguments therefore I`ll try to make a joke and throw in an insult Oh and USA rox, bomb all the mothafackas not speaking english. And Canadians. That`s so typical. All you do is produce a timeline of the events and certain ppl who prefer to disconect themselves from reality get their panties in a knot. Quote me one single thing not true in that post or "gtfo" yourself... It`s not my fault the state of affairs is what it is: FUBAR. But apparently I deserve your scorn cos I don`t share your jouvenile C&C view of the world and how its superpowers should reasert their dominance. Grow up please. If anything Iraq has drastically eroded away the image and reality of world supremacy. Not only economicaly, militarily but also morally.

I`m sure Iraqis value their new found liberties. All 1 million dead of them and 2.5million refugees that fled their country. Not counting those simply displaced inside it`s borders. So pats on the back all around are in order because after dropping a Ming Dynasty vase we managed to superglue 3 pieces together? And what "increasing reconciliation" lol? Have you checked what`s happening in Basra lately? The militias UK left in charge when packing up (smartest thing you`ve done since 1947 - last time you`ve left to be back in 03) are being taken on by US backed militias from the north. The north ones have the political weight and the south ones have the oil. Kinda goes to show just how precious little clue coalition has as to what exactly to do... The British and US model of democracy in Iraq are at war with eachother now heh... You`re wearing tinted goggles the same as Sand is, just of a different shade... refusing to acknowladge that the project of building a democracy in iraq is fast apporaching the debacle constructing socialism in rural Russia was. On topic: War is allways a learning process for the armies and nations involved. The enemy in Iraq was at first Sadam, a crazy maniac with WMD. (Turned out BS but oh whell). That was the first phase of the learning process, lifting of the veil around the devil Sadam, exposing him for the little dictator he was, a threath to no one but his people, his army gone in 24 hours... Second phase was the refocusing of the goals of the war. When the first one of saving the world from Sadams WMDs and winning the war on terror proved inadequate G.W. came up with a new one: to build a democracy and freedom in Iraq. Wich hasn`t turned out that great either apparently. All the reasons and justifications gven for this war have gone up in smoke in practice, but there was never a problem coming up with new ones. So 5 years later we`re exactly where we started BUT we have learned something. We`ve let miliary diplomacy do the talking but now we know most of what there is to know about Iraq. We know to differentiate Shiites and Sunites... We know about places like Basra and Mosul and green zone. Things we had zero clue about when it kicked off on 03. The next US president will have the benefit of starting off with a solid capital of knowledge gained. We`ll see what happens. Unless McCain wins that is... He was in Iraq, what 2 weeks ago? And during his visit he severel times accused and condemned Iran of supporting & financing Al-Qaeda in Iraq. Despite the fact that they`ve tried to politely explain to him that Iran is a shiite countly and a natural enemy of the sunite Al-Qaeda, it supports shiite militias in Iraq... Iran and Al-Qaeda are enemies. And again we`re back where we started off in 2003, only this time we`re facing the threath of repeating a carbon copy learning curve in Iran. But war is no good as an educational process. When politicians prepare new wars like that we`d be better off sending them back to school instead.

I understand it`s tough when the bubble of yourown supremacy gets burst.. but chin up lad, it`ll get better.

Possible thread win. Not really. Brdavs really only described America, which certainly has problems too... but nowhere near to the extent China does. And anybody claiming two wrongs make a right as Brdavs is is an enigma to me. All the rest follow USA like puppies which sorta makes us accomplices. And nowhere did I state that two wrongs make a right. I marely stated that we should start by marching agains our own "order of things" or atleast against what it`s turning into. Every country in the world firstly and foremostly cares about the rights of it`s citizens. And every induvidual firstly and foremostly cares about hisown rights. The value of a life varies dramatically depending on your passport. Let us not be twofaced now... You can get an exact number of coalition casulties in Iraq, a war (supposedly) fought over 2974 deaths. Howmany of us know the number of palestinians killed prior or post to that? Or how many Iraqis have died? All you get are estimations of "somewher in between 200k and 1mil" lol. And that`s lives we`re talking about, chew on that one for a sec. Speaking of mortgage crisis; how many millions of palestinians are displaced and howmany Iraqis? Nobody givess a toss cos they`re them, and we`re us. Nor does any1 really give a toss about Tibet tbh, but that gets on the agenda cos we like to stick it to China. Sorta like how Kosovo was only sticking it to Russia. The Bear and the Tiger that threathen the mighty Eagle... I wonder what the response will be the next time native amercans declare all past agreements violate and ergo null and void, + cry genocide while declaring an independant territory in the middle of the USA. Oh yea, that`s a local news joke to be laughed at. In essence: any "moral high-ground" (some think) "we" are having in lecturing China is merely a Tibetan plateau worth of BS. Atleast they`re being honest. I as an induvidual can condemn what`s happening there but then agin I condemn a lot (more) of that`s happening right here. To have a "Sand like" stance of how our righteous lberal governments and nations should disown and if possibly topple the "evil" PRC is sorta humorous conisediring the respective track records as of late (and not so as of late) - my only real beef in this conversation. Stop thinking you/we are somehow fundamentaly better. We`re better off. Mostly on theirexpense. But that`s sorta it. Mind you that is no reason to preserve a bad status quo. It is however a reason to tell our politicians to go to heck everytime they say they`re dropping bombs for freedom and to help people and when they`re being hypocritical to the border of having us for fools. China will change on itsown merrit to more suit our (and through for now superior force global) standard. Thoe it does seem like we`re gonna meet them more than half way. But that`s a whole new topic.

China will give press unlimited access when press gets unlimited acces to Guantanamo. China will provide full due process to all dissidents when west provides it for the sobs in secret prisons across the globe. China won`t use leathal force against its poppulus once law enforcment in the west is issued battons instead of shotguns and once trespassors cant be legally shot dead for showing up in your living room. China will turn ito civil rights lovefest once the west gives a toss about rights of ppl not their citizens AND once the west stops trampling civil rights on account of the "war on terror". China will respect all human life once the west stops blowing up people all over the world to promote their interest. SOmehow I cant see it happening heh... Come to think of it... wth are we to judge and set our governments as standard anyway lol?

So you`re saying you`d have them participate only in competitions on domestic soil? I kid, I kid. And China doesn`t need to be brilliant at war tbh. If China ever gets hell bent on world domination they`ll just drop all their USD in circulation killing it off in the process heh... But seriously, some of you are way to paranoid about just about everything. Christ, not everyone is out to get america heh... but most do want to just be left allone.

no, you`re just the only one with size&overcompensating issues Oh and when not in my 2001 pod I guess I`d go with the Eta-2... Has this nice blend of OT meets PT...

But... your country is demonstrating a blatant disregard for human rights and life + international law... Seems like an appropriate match to me...

Actually whispers are that the whole missle from XY miles away and then run approach isn`t exactly the 2nd coming of Jesus it was touted to be and dogfigting is not quite dead...

Twas to be expected really... China has long been looking to set up some carrier groups. So will Russia, as their respective situations enable it imho. Tis a logical step forward in catching up with US really... I actually support. Confucius says: balance is key. ;P

The correct formulation would be "it`s Thadiun Okona" under an atton pic me hinks heh But I guess the "K1 is a knock-off of OT wich is somehow bad, and K2 is superoriginal to the point a 20 year old character "is atton"" strikes again seriously... funny coincidance... but only if you`re obsessive to the point every hooded character in a flick past or yet to come is "a jedi"...

Stanley Kubrick`s 2001 Discovery "space pod". And Dave concurs.

Oy lol! What`s wrong With Austria, Switzerland, Germany & Slovenia?

With the continued slump of the dollar compared to the euro (& due to the mortgage and credit market crisis - latest "victim" Bear Stearns) EU has now apparently overtaken the US as the biggest economy in the world. Linky (latest estimate) Not bad for someone on the decline and fall eh heh... And we still have social wellfare hah!

Oh the irony of the champions of capitalism and free trade grumbling that the planes for the american army should be manufacured by americans...

Do you usualy limmit your discussions to the things you have direct influence over? cos if you do your household must be a quiet one... It`s called abstract thought, hypothesysing and expressing oppinion. Not a sin over here *yet*. I honestly fail to see the point of this topic lol... you feel europeans are out of place discussing politics, namely US politics just cos they`re not US citizens? you feel they`re out of place disagreeing with them just cos they`re supposedly allies? lol. Basically some here want some and some here apparently actually do feel guilty/wrong about this? So in essence free speach and freedom of thought we like when its about undermining unfriendly regimes in oul rich regions and its "out of place" when it happens to raise some eyebrows in the wrong direction lol? Glad we cleared that one up "allies". With ppl like you at my back who the hell needs islamic extremism to fear. And honestly why does every US/EU "argument" boil down to history... I`m sorry but the **** one does today doesn`t smell like roses cos ppl over the atlantic were doing it and worse 200 years ago lol. Nor is it tasty cos one happened to put in a massive contribution towards winning the WW2. Resorting to fingerpointing the past is scraping the bottom of the barrel BIG time. Especially if your country is built upon genocide. Little less selective memmory and little more of present "civilized" day argumentation ppl.