Volourn

Yeah. That's true. Sand lloved the OC he played it about a half dozen times. I nliked it ok enough I played it a couple of times. He felt it was worth purchasing the Premiujm modules. i did not. R00fles!

It's always been in an optional rule. I wish more PC games used it. P.S. The NWN series (both 1, and 2) have it as the default death rule yet both BIO and Obsidian decided to nullify it for the actual OCs. L0L

I like to think of undead's hit points as a symbol of the 'magic' that keeps them animated. For unintelligent ones like skeles it's the magical force makes them animated while for intelligent/free willed ones like vamps it's their 'will power' keeping what should be dead 'alive'.

"Saving a frachise and being the best game of a franchise are two different things. NWN 2 can be a better game than the first one, but it didn't save the franchise." Karka wins easily.

Nah. It doesn't. Not when you are tlaking about 'saving' a franchise. In order for a franchise tyo be 'saved' it means it is in danasger of dying or it had done poorly. NWN1 doesn't qualify because. a) It had 1 game at the time so it's really ahrd to refer to it as a franchise. b) The game was very successful both in popularity and critically wise. c) The game was still going relatively strong after a few years of release. To me, a franchise needs to either a) been gone for awhile (ie. BG series) or b) the last game in the series had been a bomb (ie. Ultima whatever the number was). Here's an example: I hate the ES series. I haven't played Oblviion yet; but it be silly for me to do so, like it, qand then claim that itr 'saved' the series for 'me'. That would be beyond silly. It might have 'saved' the series for you; but the thread title implies something much larger than that... But, I'm not surprised the answers in this thread have been narrowminded and selfish focusing only their own point of view and not the big picture. So...in that case, I hope NHL 2008 'saves' the series ... despite its long term success even thoguh I've eprsonally been dissapointed in the last few games. L0L

"some would argue that NWN2 was a considerable life saver.." Some would be be wrong. While I know there's a certain sect that loathes NWN1, it's irrelevant. The NWN franchise did not need saving. NWN2 just adds to the goodness.

Yet, Warlcoks ar ethe worst class/prestige class ever invented!!!

"not the specific DnD rulesets, have often been pressured by the majority of gamers who do not want permadeath." This mythical 'majority' must be the reason why games like the BG series were so successful then. Espicially, since we're talking about a D&D game which already has a fair, balanced, and as far as its fantasy roots goes, a solid method dealing with the pitfalls of 'permenant death'. It's called healing potions, healing spells, raise spells, ressurection, and so on. This illogic is very illogical.

"If the above incident had been done with a kinder referee there would have been far less payoff for getting away with it." Yup. Tales of heroics 'comebacks' against overhwelming odds is something that 'cheating' DMs take away from player sby pampering. Like I said above, the only time a DM should ever 'fudge' the die rolls is if HE (or she) errored in sending an enemy well beyond the players' ability to win. There's a fine line between between overpowering but possible to win against and just too much.

"I don't really like his pompous holyer than thou attitude from the novels either." Well, that shouldn't matter to your PCs thoughs. (OT, I don't think he's all that pompous or holyer than thou; but he does have his moments). He has moments where he's not even sure what's good and what's evil. I reccommend his short story in 'Heroes of Faerun' short story collection. He almost defionitely does the wrong thing in it, and is absolutely crushed in the aftermath. Anyways,... My namesake's initial encounter with Elminister was interesting to say the least. Volourn came from MH and never atcually heard about El.. anyways, he was in (and around) SD helping the good folk there with some drow (and, their underlings) problems... somehow the PCs (including me) got framed for murdering a farmer (drow had done it; but it was amd eto look like we had). Anyways, while my character was LG, he also didn't feel it neccessarily to follow what he saw as 'corrupt' human laws and decided to leave town in orde rto prove his innocence to the 'foolish' humans. My 'partner in crime' and I ran into Big E who recognized us from the Wanted Posters. At first he was willing to listen to our please of innocence; but ouyr refusal to surrender didn't please. As things got heated, E turned us (temporarily) into goats.. The fact we were willing to play our characetrs in not knowing how powerful this 'old man' was (obviously a mage; but knowing he was such high level as our characetrs were like 5th) we ha dtold him to leave us alone. Thankfully, all worked out in the end; but at leats we didn't role-play as being feareful of his great power or hatred of his 'goodness' that most PCs would have. Good stuff. Anyways,... stories too much...

PCs have a knack of finding the oddest ways to die. I've seen this as both a DM, and experienced it in my own foolish way as a player. It's part of pnp role-playing's charm. I'm glad there's another DM out there who won't always pull punches to 'save' the PCs from their own foolishness. I rarely 'cheat' with the die and only do so on those rare (not bragging; it comes with experience) situations where I overrated the PC party prowess and made an over powered enemy...

A dwarf who isn't all about the gold. A dwarf who isn't about prearranged marriages. A dwarf and elf friendship that isn't based on 'mutal kinda respect for the others' races; but on actual friendship (only one 'professional' dwarf/elf friendship did this as well. A thief (rogue) who isn't a thief AT ALL. Heroes who makes mistakes/the 'wrong' or 'immoral (IRL) choice based on actual character traits and not simply based on player stupity. Best example of this was a character of mine (my namesake) who actually called the bluff of opposing orcs holding a party member hostage, and killed them; but not they killed the fellow PC, and had to deal with the consenquences for a long time and it atcually influenced said character's personality and choices later on. Meetting up with 'famous' characters, and interatcing with them realistically and not in the 'OMG, That's Elminster', I read about him, he's a level 29 mage so let's not piss him off' kinda lameo way the majority of players play it or, hey, that's Artemis Entreri, he MUST be evil. I read it in the novel though my character never met him. A dwarf not afraid of water. In fact so much, he dons a Helm of Underwaterbreathing and after being dumped in the ocean nad has to literally 'walk with the sharks' (and avoid them). A PC losing a body part, doesn't get it back right away in some lame scheme, which does chnage the character's personality. Parties of dynamically opposed alignments and/or view points realisticlaly breaking up and not just because 'x character is evil and y character is good'; but because it fits the game. The campaign story being allowed to flow in a completely different direction due to party choices and the DM allowing (even encouraging) it. P.S. That's my proudest moment as a DM instead of the ultra rigid DM who won't allow his story be 'ruined' because of player choice (only allowing chocies that don't really effecting the main plot). A hobgoblin assassin, and an orc shaman being two of the most developed and realistic arch nemesis I've seen (I DMed one, and was a player for another). Characters with natural leadership come to the forfront naturally instead of forced or player power. An ogre raping a PC (female ogre on male PC, btw ewwww). romance between PC and NPC that isn't focred, or feeling like it's just geeks pretending to have romance in their lives to ignore the fact they cna't get a date in RL. HAHAHA! That goes along that not every female NPC is automatically a **** or puritan virigin; but actually role-played by the DM as a 'real person' (well, as real as any fictional character can be heh). I could go on...

"Less the dice is used the better." Totally disagree unless you are using the 'role-play as acting' definition. Actual role-playing in the context of a game should be much deeper than that. If not, than 3 year old kids are the best role-players of all time as those who like to 'role-play' in the bedroom. The 'dice' are a very important part of role-playing games 'cause otherwise it's just acting.

"FLASH: DnD was never optimum engine for sheer roleplaying." Error. Error. Error.

"That Obsidian was ever involved in rpgs like PST, FO and IWD boggles the mind." It's hard to take anyone seriously when it comes to complaining about linearity, role-playing, and focus being on combat not characters and actually start praising IWD. IWD wa a fun game; but it was very much linear, had neglible role-playing (OMG, your dwarf auto wins beer drinking contests, that's DEEP!), and the game was 100% focused on combat, and any story or characters were strictly there to lead the player to combat and prop said combat up. Nope. Can't take Roshan's rant seriously.

Xard wins.

PST is dead. LONG LIVE NWN2! Any comparisons from a long dead game makes a new game lose points from its Volourno Rating. I'm interetsing in buying NWN2 expansion. Not a PST expansion. Thank you.

"Hence why I said the "next thing you'll be telling me" and not "ALSO YOU ARE TELLING ME"." Ooo.. Sneaky word play. I like. That's what I get for speed reading. "dislike the idea that a cleric has "divine" magic, and that it is easier to get and (almost) as powerful as arcane magic, and they don't have to even memorise a spell beforehand. If you have to categorise my dislike, you would do worse than classify it as a magic-user's disdain for the cleric. (But I still dislike clerics as a general rule, anyway. So there.)" Eays to get? Yeah, it's easier to get and keep magic where the power comes from kisisng the butt of an all powerful and all seeing god a sopposed to learning something and not having it ever taken away. It's a lot easier to get access to arcane magic than devine magic. And, yes, priests have to memorize spells befor ehand. Who gave you the idea they didn't? You are confusing clerics with sorcerors unless you mean that priests don't have to 'learfn' spells like a mage though they 'learn' them in a different way. Nothing wrong with dislking clerics; but it should be a logical dislike... Farbautisonn: All cool.

Read my post again. Espically the last part of the last sentence. Then all will become clear. Thank you. P.S. I should be getting my computer fixed within a week so I should be able to play NWN2 again for the first time in months. Maybe a break is what i needed to get back into it.

Agreed; but that shouldn't stop paladins from having the ability to retreat either. Sometimes it is the better part of valour to 'run away'. No sane paladin (or being) will fighting 100s of enemies they have no chance of beating if nothing can come of it but their death.

Juice.

"Game hype is one thing, but magazine hype?" Magazines have always been about hype. Always. Anyways, it's BIO's BG3 for DS. R00fles!

"Are you being bigoted against my personal game-playing prejudices?" Yes. "Next thing you'll be telling me is that I'm not "allowed" to dislike playing as evil, or perhaps that I "must" like a particular NPC, or even that I "have to" enjoy compulsory companions, like Neeshka" You are allowed to dislike anything. I just feel your reasons for disliking certain classes is silly. 'Ethical' reasons based on RL is silly. Who talked about specifc companions at all? I surely didn't. "Sorry if it pissed off the general populace. I'll try to submit to the particular social and ethical foundations of this board...." Why? Post how you like. You aren't hurtin' anyone. I was just wondering why you felt the need to do a 'fake' swear. Heh. P.S. Neeshka is one of the worst characters I've ever seen...

"Leave the rapist's fate into the hands of the victim's family. Let them decide what to do with the bastards. Slavery, torture, death, whatever. They all deserve it." Worst. idea. ever.

"have a problem with paladins. I [really, truly, madly, deeply] hate them and the people who choose to play them. I've never met at guy that wanted to play a pally that wasn't an obnoxius selfrightchious twit "IRL" too." You just defined yourself. I hope you did it on purpose, and appreciate the irony. And, what's up with the fake swearing? Tryin' to prove soemthing?