Jedi Master Dakari

You all make some pretty valid points. Like i said, it was a spurr of the moment epiphany. Everything fit together in my head, but somehow didn't come out so tightly "on paper". I guess I was wrong. Oh, well. Thanks for replying though.

Hey Guys, This may have already been figured out by most (if not all) of you. However, it is an epiphany to me so I thought I'd share. The droid on Dantooine (the one that you meet and then repair when you first leave the Ebon Hawk) mistakes the exile for Revan. Therefore, the recordings are not about your character, but instead they are of Revan when he was a Jedi. My reasonings for this: 1) The last time the Ebon Hawk was docked at Dantooine was when Revan was aboard. How could the droid, who malfuntioned during the Sith bombardment, know that the exile was now using it? To the droid, the last owner was Revan, and therefore mistakes your character with him/her. 2) The recording that the droid shows you reveals Master Vrook expressing heated thoughts to Master Vandar. One of his lines says that "She" fails to scold her student. However, the exile was Kavar's padawan; while Revan was Kreia's (who had a touchy relationship with the other Masters to begin with). 3) According to Chronicles (www.KotOR2.com) and other sources, the Jedi Exile was a star pupil at the Dantooine Academy. He was on the same level with most Jedi Knights of the time. He/She even instructed other, more younger, Padawans for short periods of time when the need arose. Mical was one of them, and hoped to be the exile's Padawan once he/she "officially" achieved Knighthood (which would never come). 4) Master Vrook would not berate such a fine student. Or maybe he would, who knows? 5) Of course, Vrook did speak of bonds in the recording, but the exile formed them naturally. It should also be noted that they, naturally, were not at the same level of strength that they were when he began his travels with Kreia. The only thing unique about them, in Vrook's opinion at the time, was how he formed them so quickly. Not their strength. Revan, on the other hand, was deeply intrigued with Force Bonds, and studied them religiously! Kreia and all the Jedi Masters (from K1 and K2) explain this. Well, that's all I have come up with so far, but I'm sure there are more clues that I have forgotten since I first started writing this. If anyone else has more evidence to add to this suspicion, please feel free to post and discuss. Talk to you guys later, Jedi Master Dakari

I agree, completely, Battlewookiee. A game with good graphics does not make it a good game. The gamin industry has, in my opinion, just fallen completely apart. They have focused more on recycling the same games over and over and over again, only with better graphics and the latest technology for the "next-gen" console. A word of warning, people - incase you have figured it out by now. There will always be "next-gen" consoles. Technology is always evolving and getting better. Once the new systems come out, I would really appreciate if the developers get back to making worthwhile games. My views on the matter are thus: I love great graphics. They really do add so much to a good game. Notice, however, that I said "add to a good game" and not "make a game good"? If a game has awesome graphics, but a poor story and poor function, then what good is it? Once you've played one racing game, you've really played them all. Once you've played once wrestling game, you've played them all. Now that the good graphics are finally here, I am look more innovation not in graphics or hardware power, but in writing, gameplay, and spirit. And game worth playing. I get bored very quickly just driving through a city with nothing to do but go in circles or run over old woman. :ph34r: Well, that's my take on the whole matter. P.S. Though I would like to add the little extra comment that the graphic on these new consoles just barely come to parr with what has been out for years on the PC. Many of the "next-gen" games on cross-platform with PC and XBOX360 have had to be played down so it would run properly on the 360. But granted, graphics have come a long way. I am especially glad that cross-platform games will no longer be greatly restricted due to a console's inabilities. Because those inabilities are slim-to-none at the moment.

Kreia was a true Sith Lord to begin with. She was even the head of the Trayus Academy. She might have come to be a Sith Lord through frustration at the Jedi, and through grief of Revan's fall, but she was a true Sith Lord. After she was exiled and stripped of her power by her two students, however, is a different story. She still was a Sith Lord by title, but by title only. She no longer held to any extremist views of either the Jedi or Sith teachings. Atris might have spoken words of killing the Sith and restoring the Jedi, but her words were empty. The Sith Holocrons had corrupted her, but she failed to see it. When Kreia visited the Telos Academy for the last time, she helped Atris accept the truth. She did become Darth Traya, but only temporarily. After facing her, you could have either killed her, or turned her back to the light side. But she was a Sith. One of the things that keeps us from realizing this is because she was supposed to change appearances. But the game was cut short so LucasArts could get that Christmas money, and her appearance stayed the same. Though there is a mod that fixes this.

Look, I'm sorry I blew off the handle a bit. I never meant for my part in this topic to progress as far (and as heated) as it has. LoneWolf16, I'm sorry for calling you stupid, only with a little more words. I don't think you are. I just hate to see that there are so many people (even in the South) who are adamantly apposed to any shape, form, or fashion of religion. Even to the point where they choose to not hear, nor recognize, any attempt to support it. I don't know. But again, I'm sorry. I hope that we can all forget about this. I also hope I have not offended anyone too badly to where they hate me now. That was never my intention. :">

This same logic can be directed at Nihilus. And as Sikon put it, there is no logic in this argument. You never did play K2 did you? *SPOILERS* Kreia and Atris were both Sith Lords. *SPOILERS*

^^^ Clear example of my argument. Again, you are adding words to my post that I did not say. I never said to not teach it to them. YES! Teach the children the scientific theories. But do not teach the theories as facts until they have been proven to be fact. That's all I'm saying. LoneWolf16, until now I have been strongly against Bush's "No Child Left Behind" Act. Though I now see that the Reading/Comprehension tests should actually be more intensive.

Can you people not comprehend? I am not saying that scientists sould give up and discredit everything they believe in! That is NOT what I am saying. In believing God exists, and that he created man in his image, I likewise believe that he gave mankind the intelligence it has to even work with science. To get a little more clear: You have all said it yourselves that the evolution account of "creation" is a theory. I agree with you 100%. Am I saying that it should not be taught in schools because of that. No! However, you are all advocation that it should be taught as scientific fact. I disagree. It is theory; it has flaws and discrepencies. And until those discrepencies are smoothed over, until the flaws are no more, UNTIL IT HAS BEEN PROVEN TO BE FACT, it should not be taught as fact. My point is very easy to understand. You all are just reading too much into what say, simply for arguments sake. However, from this point forward, I agree to disagree. And keep in mind that before you shun people for their faith in their religion (mine being the Lord and his inspired Word), try reading the biblical account of Noah.

You have just proven my point with your "inconsistencies as any theory" line. Evolution (or Darwinism) is a theory. It is not fact. It should be taught as a theory, but nothing more. I might be able to get my point across better if I put it like this: No creation theory (scientific, religious, or otherwise) can be proven to be fact. This is because we simply DO NOT know. I am a Christian. I believe that God created the universe. I believe that this world, and the things in it, have evolved over time. I also believe that modern science and technology is a wonderful things, and should not be wasted. But my point is, "Evolution" or any other scientific theory has not been proven through science, and should not be presented as fact. Be it to a an 8th Grade athiest, or to an 80 year old minister.

No, I caught the point fairly well. Sorry if you disagree. That shows that individual choice can be made. I do recognize that there are some who do speak with a very strong drawl, but that characteristic should not become the standard by which all southerners are judged and ridiculed. And no, the South is not really all that much more religious than any other region. Yes, more people may be flashing their vain fish talismans, W.W.J.D. stickers, tags, bracelets, necklace, and who knows what else in peoples face, professing to be religious. However, when you look past the Jesus-freak exteriors, you will find that they are no more religious and a frat boy in Cancun. One scientific "fact" that is being taught is how old the earth is though carbon-dating. If this system of measurement were as solid and accurate as it is believed to be, then axplain why the earth's age keep becoming shorter and shorter with time, and how an up-side down fossilized tree has leaves dating millions of years older than its roots. " That being said, I leave you all with this quote...

Evolution, in the sence of Darwinism, is also theory. And it should be taught as a theory, and nothing more. It is not fact, and it can never be proven as such.

Well said. I believe in evolution, but not in the way "evolution" is most commonly known today. The term has been misinterpreted to mean "Darwinism", but Darwins theory used evolution, not created it. I believe evolution in the sense that I believe that environments evolve over time. I believe that animals and mankind alike evolve (over time) to better suit their environment and climate. I do not believe that mankind oozed from a mud pool, then turned to some ape-creature, then evolved into its current state. Let me also lay down some common sense to this discussion. To set the record straight, "Intelligent Design" does not advocate Christianity, or any other religion. This assumption comes from athiest (and like minded people) who want to feel a sense of authority in today's society. I, myself, feel that to boycott things such as this (and make up claims of it being religious, when it is not) is closed-mindedly absurd, and shows only that individual's ignorance...and the ignorance of all who follow. And for anyone's information (if anyone cares) I am from the south. I am a Christian, and am not ashamed, nor will I ever be made ashamed, to admit it. And I am sick and tired of the worn-out preassumptions that everyone seems to have of "the South". To enlighten you weak-minded children, not everyone who lives in the southern regions are religious freak "rednecks". Also keep in mind that the fake accents you might hear on movies and television shows are just that...fake. They are performed by those who are not from the south, and who have very much the same views as you. Many - if not all - of it is extremely overdone. Most that have seen sound much like a Brit speaking cajun. It just doesn't work. To educate you furthur...with the mass-media that exist today, cultural differences are becoming more and more diminished with every year. And to conclude my minor fit of rage against stupidity... For you to continuously berate others for having been born in an area seperate from yours, or for believing something other than what you believe, shows that your parents failed miserably in teaching you to not judge others. P.S. I would also like someone to explain why the Bible has stated scientific fact, on many occasions, before science did.

Game commentaries, especially role-playing-games, would be very difficult to do. But probably do-able nonetheless. Yeah, I personally feel that this is where the Prequel Trilogy went wrong. Instead of worrying about the story, the acting, etc. they were more worried about the beautiful CG animation and matte paintings. CG is great, I admit. However, that comes later. When you are working with actors, and filming a movie, then that needs to be your one and only goal for that time. Leave the CG and animation up to those who's job it is. CG is a great asset when it is used to enhance the story and acting. However, the case with the PT is that they based everything vice-versa (movie around CG and the latest tech). And that is their failing.

No, there's only one. For Episode IV he wrote and directed. I thought he did a pretty good job with it. It was really good movie. And the technological disadvantages of the time can be overlook (slightly) because the story AND ACTING was very good. For Episodes V ande VI the acting remained good, but George co-wrote with atleast one (I think) other person, and the director's chair was occupied by someone other then Lucas himself. And people wonder why the OT is far better (story and acting wise) than the new trilogy. It's because other people had various imput and vision they could have implemented. I think George is a great story-teller. And his stories have heart and soul. However, he is not a really good director and his writing (especially love scenes) are almost comical. Also, I can completely understand why he wanted to direct the Prequels himself. I really do. However, I also feel that had he allowed others to take on that task, they could have been so much better than what they turned out to be.

Exactly! We all have our own perceptions as to how the characters are in our minds... Guys, you have to remember that these games (and yes, even the main characters) do have a canon storyline. If a t.v. show were to be then I would fully expect them to follow said canon, and go no further. And to Beccaali, canon dictates that both Revan and Exile were both male. Sorry. But to actually add to this conversation; I wouldn't want so much to see a movie or t.v. show about this, but I would love to see an official, canon, novelization to each games (and the possible third). (TSL consisting of all Jedi-turning party members with a male Jedi exile. (That would mean adding Mical to that party. Although he is not part of the male party in-game, he is still an official party member and should be added.)

Don't you mean, "or pulling a Bindo."? :D

No...I think the "I'm so in love with you" scene was the worst. Lucas actually revealed on the commentary (nobody kill me for listening) that he added that scene later. Honestly, George, the film could have done without. Trust me. Sam's and Ian's acting, in the scene you selected above, is actually great. Good enough, in fact, to over-shadow Lucas's pacing just bit. Ummm, Audio Commentary is considered a special feature with any DVD movie.

So I'm watching Ep. III with the Audio Commentary, right? I skip forward to the dramatic scene where Mace and the other three Jedi Masters attempt to arrest Palpatine. Instead of hearing Lucas or McCallum say something about the story, or the depth of McDiarmid's character, I hear Coleman's voice listing off shots and scenes that were digital doubles. He firmly pointed out that Palpatine leaping from behind desk and spinning in the air was a digital double. (That was digital? NO WAY!) <_< Or he was huffing every breath, trying as quickly as he could, to name the scenes with a digital head-double. During the Order Sixty-Six scene: Again, instead of hearing Lucas or McCallum say something about the tragedy and turmoil that is taking place all around, and the hurt and pain that Yoda is feeling through the Force, I hear Coleman explaining (with excitement, I might add) how they were able to get Yoda's stick to bounce at just the right frequency with some sort of new program, that I could really care less about. Not to mention that I will never see nor use it in my entire life. Honestly... And to round up my ranting...I just had to skip forward to the scene where Anakin ignites his lightsaber in preparation to wipe out the Jedi children hidding in the Council Chamber. To my great pleasure I heard Lucas speaking of how far Anaking had fallen. But, to tell the truth, I was expecting to hear Coleman say something to the effect of, "That lightsaber...that's a digital lightsaber right there, folks." And I mean that with complete and utter honesty.... Has anyone else noticed how Rob Coleman ruins what could be the best commentary moments with the most irrelevant and/or insignificant statements? I know I sure have.

This would make for a great modding opportunity for all you modders out there. P.S. Or maybe even for Obsidian.

Now we're getting somewhere!

I kinda did wanna see Jar-Jar as a secret apprentice to Sidious. How awesome would have been...Jar-Jar adorned in flowing black robes, Sith eyes, and a crimson lightsaber. And when he talkes you learn that his annoying persona was just a cover for the true evil he really was, and he speaks in a low, steady, rumble of darkside power.

Because it's obvious that not all Force-sensatives have this ability. Vergere, Palpatine, and Kreia are the only ones known to possess the power. A better question would be, "Why didn't Nihilus go ahead and drain Kreia of all life when he had the chance, instead of just deadening her to her powers at Malachor V?" But we all make mistakes, don't we? But to answer your question, she wasn't doing this to defend herself. She did do it onboard the Harbinger against Sion because she was not yet ready to face him so soon, but eventually she was once again more than capable to deal with the Jedi Masters. She only used this ability to keep her identity a secret until the time was right. Had the Jedi Masters figured it out earlier than she wanted, then they would have made the exile aware of this. Remember, "If she is to be revealed before the time is right, then all of this would have been for nothing." -- Kreia (or something to that effect.)

No, it doesn't necessarily kill you. However, if you are too weak, unwilling, or too afraid to do so, then it will kill you. "We spend out entire live connected with the Force. And to have it suddenly stripped from you, to picture a life without the Force, it is a frightening thing indeed." -- Zez-Kai Ell Ulic, for reasons unknown to even himself, willed himself to live. Although he was made blind to the Force he still had his inner strength and determination and that is all that kept him alive at most times.

And if you continue to argue that Kreia's ability to hide her presence in the Force is something that was made by Obsidian to cover for a bad story, then read this from Starwars.com...

Why not? Kavar, Vrook, and Zez-Kai Ell were all very puzzled and astonished that Kreia was there. Vrook even voiced that puzzlement when he said that he had thought she died at Malachor V. They were caught off-guard in really the same manner that Mace was when Anakin cut his hand off. And if you want to argue that she would not have been able to drain of the Force because they were Jedi Masters, then I urge you to ask her to show you her past. A line in her story is this... "There a techniques within the Force against which there is no defense." And I also urge you to recount the happenings of Ulic Qel-Droma. Kreia was not physically invisible...unless you did activate the Stealth feat. Here very good reasons to support some of the many things I (and many others) have already said.. 1: The Jedi Council had believed Kreia to be dead. (It is suspected that she is Arren Kae; which is very possible.) 2: Her appearance has changed much since she was last a Jedi Master. (One of Atton's first few lines upon the Ebon Hawk were purposfully added to give us this clue.) 3: The worlds on which your quests lie in K2 are those either touched by war or drowned in life, which prevents you from detecting other Force-sensative. ("It makes detecting other Force users difficult." -- Zez-Kai Ell, "If there are any here I cannot sense them." -- Vrook, "Old woman?" -- Atris) Keep in mind that Atris never did see Kreia. Kreia was locked away in the containment cell while Atris barely went so far as to leave her Meditation Chamber but for a few feet. Reguardless, she never detected Kreia's presence in the Force. But as soon as the Handmaidens told her this, she came to full realization who Kreia was, and that she indeed was there and that the exile was fitting into her plan perfectly.