Sorwen

Thus you mena that the devs should re-writte or fill in the plot holes just for their dear PC version buyers? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Have spackle will travel?

And the fact someone will mod it.

What, that leaves all bad?

The people yearn for a good Star Wars MMORPG.

Not the least surprising as this is the same person who wrote for Torment. He gives the impression he might be the kind of guy that likes to hear himself talk.

That's what I hate. It was similar with kotor. You could bypass everything and get Jedi sooner. Well now it is the same just this time it is the lightsaber. Maybe if there is ever a kotor 3 they will get it right and let you play with it all from the start. Of course I'm going to do it all. I want to see it all and will need the exp so it will be a long time coming for my lightsaber.

...There is no spoon. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is only the spork.

There is actually a very nice moding community out there for KoToR. Since the file structure is very similar to NWN it made it easy to start simple mods and now there that people took that and ran, so-to-speak, there are some nice mods out there and getting better. There a whole new character models(not just reskins), New dialog, items, and the list just keeps growing. Since the KoToR 2 is based off the same engine/file structure, there will likely be a lot of mods very quickly. With the new options available there is even more room to play around with things. It would be nice if LA and Obsidian would support moding, as it adds to the life of a game. I was really surprised that KoToR did come out on the pc as LA seems to be against any game that may remotely take sales from SW Galaxies. Hence why I thing the real decision behind no multi-player. A good star wars rpg multi-player could take sales away from a crappy mmorpg with star wars name slapped on.

I think it is the other way around. They had to adapt a PC engine to an X-box. I think the X-Box version is actually a downgraded PC version. Can't proof it though, but it makes sense to me. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, as KoToR was made for the XBox. Bioware stated this many times. They were also nice and gave us a PC version. Likely it was originally just to back up sales if the XBox version failed. Since KoToR 2 is built on the same engine and is/was hoped to cash in on KoToR's success on the XBox it is also a game built for the XBox. They upgrade the textures(among a few other things) as a direct port would be crappy for a pc.

Yes, it is a very big difference in power. That was part of my point. There are tons of characters you could label "Sith", but few you could truly label a Sith Lord. In KoToR there were only 3. Reven(if you did DS you could label him twice), Malak, and Bandon. Bandon was powerful enough for the title, but it was like a newly raised Master. Some times your just not powerful enough. When I went through the second time DS my Reven would have made sure Bastila was Darth. He...I mean they...would have gone on to rule the galaxy as Darth Reven and Darth Plaything....I mean Darth Bastila. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I would very much argue that Bandon wasnt strong enough, but he was "Darth Bandon" so I wont bother..as for you're point with Bastila on you're DS playthrough I'm not sure wtf you are trying to say but Bastila can hardly be counted as a Sith, she was Malak's apprentice for a very, very short time. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, what I was saying is that by the end of the game she wouldn't have been a Sith lord. Really all she achieves is becoming a dark Jedi with a little Sith training. I'm saying that as Darth Revan again I would have went on to train Bastila to make her worthy of the title of Darth. With the Darkside there is no fear of rushing her training too fast. As long as she is alive and whole at the end of the day for my Darth Revan to play with it doesn't matter. Of course Jedi Master Revan would be appalled at that idea, but we are talking about Darth Revan.

Could always go prequel and do Revan when he first went darkside. The only thing I wouldn't like about that is I would prefer more new Reven story rather than pre-story. Personally I would like to see a sort of wrap up game with depending on how you play you could pick up any of the old characters and move forward. Sort of like a RoTJ without cutesy unneeded/unwanted Ewoks.

An MMORPG that lets everyone start out as a Jedi would be disastrous, a blatant disgrace to the world of Star Wars. Not to mention there would be zero continuity. Ten thousand Jedi running around per server? Yeah, lots of fun. - dr cloak <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually if you did it in the right age there would be no continuity break. KoToR wouldn't be the right age, but lets say at the height of the Republic, well before the emperor, you could get away with a lot of Jedi. Also before the sith war with Exar Kun. Heck I would do it right at that time. You could have a lot of LS and DS, a grand Galactic battle, do some skills that made non-Jedi combative and important, and just over all if you took your que from galaxies as what not to do then it would be a great game. I think he wanted a good Star Wars MMORPG.

Yes, it is a very big difference in power. That was part of my point. There are tons of characters you could label "Sith", but few you could truly label a Sith Lord. In KoToR there were only 3. Reven(if you did DS you could label him twice), Malak, and Bandon. Bandon was powerful enough for the title, but it was like a newly raised Master. Some times your just not powerful enough. When I went through the second time DS my Reven would have made sure Bastila was Darth. He...I mean they...would have gone on to rule the galaxy as Darth Reven and Darth Plaything....I mean Darth Bastila.

I thought they hadn't said when in Feb. I'm thinking Feb 28th at 11:59 pm.

That is going a bit far. If Lucas Arts is running out of money its because they keep allowing low quality games to be made with their name on it. I'm not even talking about KoToR 2.

First, there is a big difference between being Dark Jedi, Sith, and being a Sith Lord. Yuthura, was never a Sith Lord/Darth. In KoToR I would never say Bastila was either. I haven't played K2 so who knows, but by the DS ending of K1 for me she would have been at some point later.

Good or bad it will never happen so what is the point?

That would make Vader and Luke the men. Taking all that damage from Emperor.

I'm open to criticism, but some of your claims conflict with the actual facts. Work on KotOR2 began after KotOR1 shipped, not before. While there were design ideas tossed around before KotOR1 came out, real work on it began around September of last year, giving us roughly 13 months to meet the December release date for the Xbox version. Any bug fixes in the patched PC version were included in our version of the code. XBox and PC version were originally announced for a Feb of 2005 release. The decision to release the XBox version in December was made sometime around mid-August. Development houses almost never have any say on release dates when dealing with a Publisher/Developer situation. -Akari <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I can't argue with a dev statement, but as to the development start time I could have sworn it had been quoted by Game Spy in one of the interviews that the development started before KoToR 1 shipped. I assume I remember wrong or misinterpreted the quote. Maybe they (gamespy or the quoted party) had been talking about the design ideas. At least until/if I can find again and possibly prove myself a total fool *shrug*. I prefer to remove all doubt. You may not be able to or want to comment. And I'll say again I can only go on interviews and other word of mouth due to my Xbox boycott of the game. That said too the 13 months for what sounds like amounts to an expansion, albeit one with a lot more assets and story line than most, seems like adequate dev time for the programmers to clean up bugs unless it is due to the original code being a bit too much for the Xbox to actually handle. Again I don't expect you to comment directly on this, but the part were there is a glitch due to a subplot being removed due to time constraints would seem very plausible. I mean you could spend years on a story and still not put in everything you would want. I did catch part of an interview/comment the other day (I believe it was on G4TechTV) where whoever it was said you had decrease load times. So maybe that took up your development time rather than the bugs and more time would have allowed you to get these bugs. I'm sorry most of this is likely things you can't directly comment on so I'll move on. This I was never disputing. I'll have to see if I can find it, but there was an article someone had that came out shortly before the XBox announcement where I could have sworn they quoted someone as saying that both should come out sometime in December. Maybe I misunderstood what they said, took it out of context, or the writer got it wrong. The only thing that stuck with me from that article was that comment because not long after was the announcement of the XBox December release. I'm sure for every instance I could name(some I would have to re-research the actual name of the game) that had control on the full control of development time(as said by them. of course, like the clear as muddy water relation on who pushed the Xbox version of K2 up, that could just be pr) some could name another company that was not. I'll use an obvious, and a slightly bad but better known, example to prove my point. VTM: Bloodlines release was dictated by Valve, because it used Source it couldn't be released until after HL2. Like I said it is a bit of a bad example because we have the Engine developer(Valve), the game developer(Troika), and the publisher (Activision). And it was Valve dictating not Troika. I guess I should really say dictate because usually it is going to come down to a contractual agreement between both where before then they will have come to an agreement and the company may want/need more time, but the agreement doesn't allow for it. There have also been instances where the company started development before signing with a publisher. There are cases where the developer is the publisher. Then there is Indie as well. Maybe these are all exceptions to the rule and he who screams the loudest is just the most heard.

Yeah, but that is not the developer's choice. They are just the ones who make the game. The publisher is in charge of QA and release deadlines. That has nothing to do with the developer. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not really. Most companies have total say on final release. Not all of course, but most. The developemnt time is costing them in most cases. In the case of Obsidian and Pendamic(or however it is spelled) it is possible LA pushed, but since both actually had adquite developement time that really isn't an excuse. In Obisidian's case they had half of the game handed to them. Most of KoToR,though it uses a different engine, is built like NWN. That doesn't mean it was for sure totally plug and go, but a lot is very modular allowing for a lot of changes with only resource creation. BF's problem...

It's been awhile so I can't remember where I read it, but there was a quote from either obsidian or LA in an interview saying that both would be out by Christmas. Just shortly later there was the official announcement that the Xbox version would be out in December and the PC version would hit some time in Feb. It's possible someone said something they shouldn't, but I trust the sorces I would have gotten it from as they could get suede for things like that. No it's call why fix it now when we can sell it now and patch it later. See PC version of SWBattlefront.

No XBox live. Whether they will fix it for the PC is anyone's guess then. As long as they fix the bugs for the PC version I'll live. KoToR was mostly bug free for me before their first patch. So as long as we don't get a lot from what Obsidian did I should be fine. The only bug I remember I had was some times I had to walk back and forth in a door way for the area transition to trigger. The first patch fix it.

*ahcoobullshachoo* Sorry had to sneeze there. Seeing as Obsidian started development well before KoToR finished and most of the bugs reported thus far are the similar to the ones in KoToR and that the PC version after the first patch was relatively bug free. It seems more of a case of ignoring the bugs and they will go away. Before the split they had moved the PC and Xbox versions up to December and then shortly after the PC got pushed back to Feb. So it really doesn't sound like it got rushed. That said I'll have to wait till Febuary to say one or the other. I just get irratated when people start making excuese for companies. People wonder why there are 3 times as many buggy releases lately.

Isn't that the definition of a rushed product? A product that had flaws/errors that needed fixing, but because the game was shipped, couldn't be fixed? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not really. Unless you want to say KoToR 2 was rushed for last Christmas release.

I can't speak from experience as I didn't play KoToR on XBox and refuse to play K2 on it(my little protest), but from all I've heard for the most part it is the same types of glitches they had the first time only more often. Seeing as how the engine is the same, with more just added to it I'm not surprised. If what happens holds true I'll be fine on the pc after the first patch. I don't think it was rushed I just don't think any of it's flaws were fixed.