Guard Dog

That is true. Global warming became a hot button issue in scientific communities about 15 years ago. Al Gore is only using it to give himself an issue to stand on. I remember the first major news article about global warming I read was in 1991. That was right about the time the chicken littles of the world realized the dire warnings about "Global Cooling" from the 1970's were bunk. Oh yes, here is a link to one of the thousands of dire warning about how humans were causing global cooling. The part I like is about how the glaciers would cover North America and Europe by the late 1990's and they seriously discussed ways to melt the polar caps to stave off an ice age. For you reading enjoyment: http://www.denisdutton.com/cooling_world.htm and http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialrep.../fireandice.asp. As for you second point that is a fair argument. But I would point out there are a large number of VERY fuel efficient models of cars and light trucks for sale here. But they do not sell well because they are very expensive and not very durable. The government cannot compel a company to sell certain models, or not not sell others here. Just as they cannot compel me to buy them. But they can reward me for doing so. And they do. If you buy a fuel efficient car you get a nice tax break. I will tell you right out, I drive a Mercury Mountaineer. It is not terribly fuel efficient but I have a lot of dogs and I need a truck that can carry as many as possible at one time if needs be. The little electric hybrids will not do that.

I'm not so sure about that one. I'm thinking the ones who do follow the Gore mantra get more press because by and large the press wants it to be true because it fits their political agenda. By and large that is. The press of the world is not solely left leaning but the majority of it is. As far a cutting carbon emissions, thats easy, replace coal burning electric plants with Nuclear plants. Easy, and much much more enviormentally friendly. But no the envoirmentalist leftists don't want to hear that either. Science and politics make as poor a mix as religion and politics.

I'm sure you have heard of the legend of the frog and the scorpion? Sometimes a company (or a person, or a scorpion) does things just because its what they do. Even if it is against their interests, it's just their nature.

It is hard not to be pessimistic about this. I's not as if what Sand is saying has never happened bafore. Several times.

Has anyone here ever tried astrophotagraphy?

Here is some interesting reading: Excerpt: Link to the rest:http://www.smh.com.au/news/environment/gor...1696238792.html Dr Gray does not advocate the same theory I do, but once again this files in the face of the slogan spouting "Consensus formed" and "The science is settled" crowd that make up Gore's disciples.

Yes I saw that. That is one theory, but a body like that increasing in temp as it heads away from the sun and doing so at a consistent rate as all of the other planets supports the theory I posted about. There was another article that was to long to post about the moons Europa, and Io, and Dione, and Encladeus and how they were heating up but there were of course alternate theories about that as well. One that I thought was intersting was how orbital changest in Encladeus resulted in it radiating more geothermal energy but then goes on to say no orbital changes had been noted withing the time Cassini arrived. With Europa and Io, it was theorized they were warming because of increasing radiation from Jupiter. But there in the last paragraph was the caveat, Jupiter is increasing it's radiation because it is receiving more from the sun. The point I'm getting at here is too many of you are confusing politics with science. When they wave their hands and say "Humans are the cause (particularly American humans), the science is settled" it strikes me as the perfect marriage between arrogance and ignorance.

Hmmm. Well, lets just see here. We are all intelligent people on this board (with a few exceptions) to lets outline the problem. We have a planet whose mean temperature has increased by 0.65 C since 1970. It's polar caps are melting (it has been confirmed that the largest mean change in temp is at the poles), and CO2 as a percentage in the atmosphere has increased by 2.3% since 1976. Does that sum it up? Mkreku? Meta? Nick? Gorgon? Do we all agree on these facts? OK. Now what could be causing this? Most of you would probably say humans. The Nobel Laureate has. What if I could prove to you it is not. Well, here you go: It's not Earth, it's Mars: http://www.nature.com/news/2007/070402/ful...ws070402-5.html. It's true kiddies, Mars is experiencing global warming at a rate commensurate of that on Earth. As most of you are aware (pay attention here Mkreku) there are no humans on Mars. No phones, no lights, no motorcars, as natural as can be. But wait, there's more! What if I told you there is a planet that has seen a 5% increase in mean temp since 1989? What if I told you that this planets atmosphere is less than 0.0000000001% CO2 but it is still warming anyway. And here is the kicker, the largest changes are happening around the poles! It's true! That planet is Neptune http://www.agu.org/pubs/crossref/2007/2006GL028764.shtml. And by way of further proof Neptune's largest moon Triton is also warming at about the same rate as Mars, Neptune and (gasp) the Earth http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/199805260...trunc_sys.shtml. Still with me kids? Great. I thought most of you would be on the floor covering you eyes and ears by now. Well, there's more. It's happening to Pluto too: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/plut...ing_021009.html. I might add that Pluto is heading toward it's apoapsis (that means it's getting farther away) and it is still warming up. Oh, by the way, there are no SUVs on Pluto. Saturn is also getting warmer. Since 1981 it's atmosphere temp has increased by a mean of 3.1 Kelvin and it also boasts an increase of 5 degrees Kelvin at the Poles. http://saturn.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.cfm Hey didn't Al Gore say the Earth is warming fastest at the poles? Well, as we established. We are all reasonable and intelligent people here right? What do all these planets have in common beside the fact they are experiencing the same rate of warming as Earth. I'll give you a hint; It's not humans. I'll give you another; It's not CO2 (half of the list worlds have little to no CO2). What could it be? The SUN! Yes indeed, the all orbit the same star that has since 1971 become more active: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml.../ixnewstop.html and http://www.livescience.com/environment/070...ys_warming.html. So there we have it. The Nobel Laureate is sitting in his palatial mansion in Nashville (that consumes more energy than an entire city block: http://www.tennesseepolicy.org/main/articl...?article_id=367) polishing his Nobel Prize, telling us WE need to shut down the factories scrap OUR cars and change all the world to a socialist/agrarian economy (and elect him to run it I'm sure). Maybe before you just nod your empty heads and agree with him you should do a little research. Here endeth the lesson. I realize I have just committed a major heresy to the PC religion so many follow, so flame away if you like.

People are scum.

I'll sell my truck and move to a cabin in the woods and live off of roots and berries as soon as Al Gore does.

Good luck and Godspeed Ros!

I'm not pessimistic by nature but I'm finding myself in agreement with Sand on this one. It is impossible to say what Bioware's future is or how much EA will control it, but based on past performance this move is not a good thing for Bioware fans.

My thoughts exactly. Maybe now we'll start getting some information on DA.

Just finished Ella in Europe. What a funny light hearted book, an absolute joy to read. Now working on My Grandfather's Son by Clarence Thomas.

DOH! Damn you Lyranor for getting my hopes up! Sorry Pidesco.

Damn you Pidesco for getting my hopes up like that!

So I get home from work today and there on the front porch (with dried dog pee on the side) was an Amazon.com box. Yea, new books! My Grandfather's Son by Clarence Thomas Ella in Europe by Michael Konik

And the score in this exchange is: Sand 2 Yushaa 0

After reading Taks post I did a little research and I was surprised to find there have been a number of attempts by groups within states to actually legally separate from the US. Most notably Michigan, Wisconsin, Washington, Oregon, and Alaska. In Alaska they actually tried to get it on the ballot in 2002. That ended in a big court battle that was ultimately decided by the Supreme Court of Alaska in Kohlhaas v State of Alaska. In the decision, Sect 4, paragraph B the Court emphatically states "Secession is unconstitutional". They cited Texas v White for it's interpretation of Article 4. The argument for was based on extrapolating the meaning of the 9th Amendment since the Constitution does not specifically say "Thou Shalt Not Secede". All of the efforts have either died from lack of support or were legally defeated. So it seems the only way it would ever happen is by force of arms, or act of Congress. Which means it won't happen. The US is like a jealous lover, once she has you she never...ever... lets go.

In all seriousness, the idea of the US breaking up has always seemed a little far fetched. Despite the differences in politics, culture, etc, in all the different regions of the country there is still a strong national identity, common language, and shared history. That was not true at all in 1861 where most people identified themselves by what state they lived in. However, it is not inconceivable. The country has become very polarized politically speaking and that is a phenomenon that can be tracked geographically. And it is not expected to change within the next generation or so. It is not unreasonable to suppose that a future president with the complicity of a single party dominated congress could enact something that certain states simply could not live with. Like nationalizing private businesses or property for example. That would be enough to make me fight. Since the Constitution protects the citizens from the government it would have to be a serious constitutional breach to provide the catalyst. That said I doubt that would ever happen.

Sand you could always immigrate to Awesomeland. Aram may not offer you healthcare but at least there won't be corruption.

And just think Aram, if you ever want to make improvements to Awesomeland just declare war on the US then surrender. The US will come in and build all new for you.

You are right Taks, that was not such a great example. I did not do that well in physics I'm afraid. I got a C in both classes. But I got an A in both Statics and Dynamics which are really just applied physics. Go figure. These days I'm seeing microwave paths even in my sleep.

Great link. I sent that to everyone at work... it killed!