Guard Dog

We agree comrade, why should your boss get 85% of the value you produce? I'll see you at the next IWW meeting. If I'm unhappy with my employment or feel I'm being exploited then I am free to seek employment elsewhere. I am free to negotiate, or re-negotiate the terms of my employment. I am free to unionize with my fellow employees and bargain collectively. I'm also free to start my own business and work for myself. In fact I've personally done that three times. But the catch is I can only do these things in a free country with a market economy where there is competition. If you had your way none of these things would ever be possible. I'd rather die than not have some control over my own destiny. Of course in your dream country I probably would since people who are not with the program are usually lined up and shot.

I don't believe I referred to the poor as lazy parasites. 213374U seems to think I do too but with him if you oppose the means you must also oppose the ends. Personally I think taxation in any form is theft and government services could be paid for on an as-used basis for a lot of things. And what's left could be funded in other ways. Of course that would mean a government that does far, far less than what people seem to want. So it seems that cow is long out of the barn. As far as not caring for others Libertarians are the champions of private citizens rights. When the City of Riviera Beach in Florida wanted to use eminent domain to seize and demolish a poor neighborhood to build a new upscale marina and shopping center who funded the homeowners court challenge? The Libertarian Party of Florida. Who is helping pay court costs for the challenges to Trump's "muslim ban"? The US Libertarian Party. If your definition of caring for people is making them subservient wards of the state when you won't think libertarians care about people. If your idea of caring is defending their rights and property, protecting their income, and removing the roadblocks to their success and upward mobility then you'll find libertarians care deeply about people.

>talking about proceeds from capital/wealth "management" >talking about inheritance "but muh hard work!" Wealth is earned. Inheritances are earned by someone. Every dollar, yen, yuan, euro, or peso is the product of someones risk or labor or both.

Tomorrow is Thanksgiving here in the US. The VFW is having a big dinner for all it's members. But I have to bring something. I'm looking at what I have here and scratching my head. The one thing I have a lot of is acorn squash. I do make a killer acorn squash soup. But I'm going to need 2 big stock pots to make enough to be worth the trouble, I have to drive in to Covington and go to WalMart or something. Ugh. Walmart the day before Thanksgiving. I'd rather be staked to the ground and eaten by ants.

That's ok, as long as they pay the same percentage as everyone else it's their fair share.Why not let them keep their meager amount though? Some poor people not paying is that much of a bugbear to you? The point about living in a society is true, though, not sure why the poor are automatically lazy parasites or something but libertarians and caring for others isn't typically a package. OK, how about this then. The first $40k of income for everyone (witch will encompass poverty lines for a family of 3 in both US & Canada) is tax free. So in other words, no one pays a dollar on the first $40k they earn ever year. After that a flat percentage on all income over $40k. This applies to both personal and business incomes.

Aren't the people who aren't paying (I guess this is a problem for you) not earning enough to pay income tax ? Correct. If your adjusted incomes falls below a certain number you don't pay. In fact it's not uncommon for people to actually receive a refund greater than the total amount that was deducted for tax the previous year. Where do you suppose that comes from? As for it being a problem, well, I guess it is in a way. After all if everyone benefits from a thing shouldn't everyone help pay for that thing? At the very least you'd think the people who pay nothing would not buy into the the notion those greedy 10% rat-bastards are not paying their fair share. Unfortunately politicians love turning us against each other as a means to channel anger into electoral support. One of the reason the government is getting away with the abuses it is getting away with is the people who actually PAY for those abuses constitute an electoral minority. If everyone is bearing the cost maybe people will look a little harder at where that money is going.

For my part at least I think we were not discussing a particular amount or policy but the philosophy of an inheritance tax in a general way. One advantage of a flat tax that everyone pays is that people might finally start taking an interest in where the money they earn is going. Right now in the US 90% of the taxes are paid by just 10% of the taxpayers. And almost half of working Americans pay no income tax at all. And for all that everyone still thinks the 10% are not paying their "fair share". It's like we are watching the prelude to "Atlas Shrugged" playing out before our eyes. The purpose of tax isn't to help the poor get richer or to make the rich poorer. The purpose is to fund the things the government is doing that we are supposedly all benefiting from. Well, if we are all benefiting perhaps we should all be paying? And if someone who has had no tax liability before sees $75 of money he earned wasted on the stupid s--t our government wastes other people's money on and it makes them take an interest that can't be a bad thing. Someone once said if elections were held on April 16 this would be a different country.

One last thought on what people "need" and just who is rich and who isn't. In my own estimation I am, by far, the wealthiest man in the world. My house could not be called a mansion by any comparison, but no mansion would ever please me so much. It may not be large but it is more than enough for me. Every night I can sit on my porch and watch the sun set on the fork of the Hatchie River. And after that the stars shine like diamonds on a black velvet blanket. This show takes my breath away and it happens right over my house every night with such regularity that how could all of it not be just for me? I wake up to the sounds of blue jays, whiskeyjacks, and crows and fall asleep to the sounds of owls, crickets and coyotes. A free concert of incomparable music. And it happens every night. The soil around me, the river beside me and the woods beyond produce food for me to eat, privacy and security and views more beautiful than any palace in Europe could hope to match. This was my dream. This was the thing I wanted most. Not just to have things like this but to truly own them so no one could ever take them. So I did what had to be done to achieve it. I saved money instead of spending it. I worked hard, then worked harder. I worked two jobs. I worked full time and went to school at night. I worked weekends when my friends were at the beach. I hear people mocking the notion of someone pulling themselves up by the bootstraps and achieving their goals. But people do that every single day. In 1998 I was dead broke, newly divorced, jobless, and well on the road to drinking myself to death. In 2017 I own my own home and land outright and have a nice investment portfolio. this only happened because I figured out what I wanted and did what had to be done. Success is extremely subjective. You only achieve it when YOU think you have achieved it. But it is out of no one's reach. Don't go into debt. Don't buy what you don't need. Realize that there will be setbacks and work around them. Work hard, then work harder. Look for opportunities, don't wait for them to come to you. And above all ignore the people who tell you it's impossible. It isn't. If you have to go to school, then do it. Can't afford school? Learn another way. Libraries are free. Adult vocational education is usually free. Just because you don't want a particular job does not mean it won't be worth your while. Most important of all, never be idle. Don't let a day pass when you are not doing something to further your goal whatever it is. The last thing in Guard Dog's steps to success is this: enjoy and take pleasure in the things you do have. Pet your dog, play with your cat. Talk to your spouse, take your kids to the park. Let yourself really enjoy whatever you are doing right now. Take notice of how good your coffee is, or your lunch. Stop a minute and just listen to the birds or look at the stars. There is so much going on all around us that so few ever stop to take notice of. There are a lot of fabulously wealthy people in this world who are utterly miserable. A lot of that is attitude. The person who takes joy in the things they have will usually be happier than the one who does not no matter how nice those things are. Thomas Paine once wrote "what we achieve too cheaply we esteem too lightly, its dearness only that gives value". Be prepared to work for what you want and don't let anyone tell you it's impossible. And when you do reach whatever goal you've set, don't let the people who didn't work for theirs tell you what you have achieved isn't really yours. Anyway, that's my $.02.

I am so stealing this one!

OK, i think I'm caught up now.

If it were up to me everyone pays. From $1 up to whatever. If everyone benefits from that the taxes pay, then everyone should pay.

Heh. You know, you're essentially using the same strawman argument (why tax something that's already been taxed) as everyone else, but in your case I at least can respect that - because you honestly believe, misguided as I think it is, but that is a matter for another debate, that there wold be better ways than taxation and receiving what the government offers in return (I mean I get it, you'd rather pay corporate price gougers than the inefficient government *polemic* *wink*). Right away you are assuming the evil corporations are price gouging. They will if they can. The ultimate antidote for that is competition. The more companies that are selling widgets the cheaper the widgets become. Lower the tax on the widget companies and widgets become more profitable to make. The government can't change the price of a widget. But they CAN change how much it costs to make widgets. But the only ways to do that involve the government accepting that they are going to get less money in the short term (more in the long term because at the end of the day revenue and economic growth are linked). The problem is the people who run the governments have 0 understanding of economics and refuse to do with less the two things they love more than anything else: power and other peoples money.

If governed society and monetary regulation stops working then all that green paper you worked so hard for doesn't mean anything. The value of money exists because society makes it exists and therefore society is responsible for the problems it causes. Accepting the value of your hard earned money is a tacit agreement to support the way society works and the issues that come with this society-wide agreement to define worth in paper and numbers become at least to an extent your responsibility as a participant of that society. Don't like it, go live in the woods and trade acorns for toilet paper. See my previous answer for a practical response. You bring up an interesting point about the problems that arose from transitioning away from an asset backed currency. But there is no getting the genie back in that bottle.

Honestly, at this point I just silently pray that someday people can realize their dreams of creating an objectivist utopia out there on the high seas or in orbit where they can establish whatever tax policy they want to. You know someone with my screen name has argued against Objectivist economics many times. In fact I believe my exact words were "Socialism does not work because people are not ants. Objectivisim does not work because people are not bears". I believe that same person also said tax is necessary (even if it is still theft) but could be made more fair. For example how about a 15% tax that EVERYONE pays. If you earned a dollar you owe $0.15. If you earned a million you owe $150,000. No write offs, no deductions. Everyone contributes. That sounds fair to me.

Yeah. I can very much say that you don't need that much money, with 100% certainty. You may want it, you may feel entitled to it, you may even think you deserve it. But need? No, you don't need it, and the proof is hundreds of millions of your fellow countrymen survive with far less than that. It's also unsurprising that it always comes down to assuming envy. You probably also assume laziness, right? Perhaps consider that, for others, material riches may not hold anywhere near as much appeal as they do to you. See you are setting yourself as the arbiter of what another individual "needs". And in the process disposing of the life work of someone you don't even know. We are all (or at least should be) free not just from the predations of our government but each other. And you can't tell me envy is not a factor. Arrogance is also a factor. The notion that the fruits of someone's risk and labor are not theirs to dispose of as they see fit. I've said it before and I'll repeat it here. The worst acts of the human race often begin with the idea that one person knows better how another person should be living or what they "need" than they do. On a personal note material riches do not hold any appeal to me. What drives me is the desire to be left alone. I own some land and a small house. They are not fancy, but they are completely mine. I cleared the land, I built the house (had most of it done actually) and saved most of my life for the capital to do it. I worked when other people were sleeping. I saved when they spent. Who else then has greater claim on my life's work than I do? Who is more entitled to say what happens to it when I am gone? I owe nothing to the people who did nothing to earn what little bit I have save the tax the State levies on it.

Taxation of any kind is theft. Legalized, maybe even necessary but still theft. You are taking away money from the people who earned it for the greater benefit of people who didn't. If we can't get around it as a method of funding the government there are surely things we can do to make it more fair. If I left my children a multi-million dollar estate that I worked my whole life to build, earned the money that built it, paid taxes on the income and on the real assets all along the way what standing does anyone have to come in and say it's not all mine to dispose as I please? This notion I'm hearing "you don't need that much money", who are you to say that? You don't know them. Its a notion rooted in the same base emotion that drives the appeal of collectivists economics: envy. Tom has something that **** and Harry don't and it's.... not.... FAIR! So **** & Harry elect a government that will take away what Tom has. It amazes me that people will overlook the worst kind of abuses of power, corruption, and intrusions on their life and property from their governments. They gladly hand their children over to fight in wars that were never declared but never end. They pay more than half of the money they earned and "rent" the house they own and the car they bought to a government that only demands more and all because we think there is no other way to build our roads and secure our defense.

We were talking about inheritances, which aren't really earned in a traditional sense. Although, I suppose I may have worked my way out of my own inheritance by not getting along with my parents. I don't really have a problem with the top 3% of estates being taxed on inheritances. I think it is actually a pretty conservative idea that you will not be taxed on the first million of inheritance. That is going to allow the vast majority of people to avoid taxes of inheritances. I think 85% after that million is an absurdly high number, but I'd rather start with the concept that 97% of estates will not be taxed and work on that 3% separately. edit: The ownership we are talking about is the estate of a deceased person. What rights do kin have that estate? We assume that property should be passed down, but where do we draw the line? Should my kids have access to my pension? I do have life insurance options, but they typically have certain costs involved. Doh! Sorry Ben. Here I go jumping into the middle of a conversation without reading what came before!

stealing implies ownership So we don't own what we earn? Not exactly an incentive to work hard is it? Why be an engineer and deal with that stress when I can just pick apples. After all if the pay is the same why work harder?

A decision I've been avoiding making cannot be put off much longer. Opportunities might soon be lost. High risk, high reward opportunities. But tonight I'm wondering if the best risks are those not taken. I am not a man who agonizes over decisions. The right thing to do is usually self evident I've found. Not this time. I think the thing to do it sit on the porch and listen to the night sounds. Most answers can be found that way.

Just finished these two: No reading this:

The heady optimism of the first week of the season has given way to the cold realities of a team both too old or too young in Memphis. Last night they suffered their second savage beating at the hands of the Rockets in as many weeks.

I took some of the corn I dried from the garden and ground it up into corn meal in my coffee grinder. I made corn bread from it last night. It was MOST awesome. Still is actually. I'm eating a piece for breakfast right now with a bit of honey and black coffee.

The real irony here is that there's always working class people willing to defend the exploitative nature of labor commodification in capitalism, because they are convinced that they will enter the 4% that KP referenced earlier. (except for Sharp_one who, as you can tell by his deep economic insight, is a self-made S&P 500 founder and CEO and of whose success we're all just jealous) As for the gif Hurl posted, I have only one thing to say, buddy: Kark Marx was the leader of the rebel alliance????? So it really WAS Nazi's vs communists after all! It's enough to make you head for the Outer Rim!

Speaking from experience here when you are in the military they spend a pretty good amount of time training on every conceivable military topic. In the USMC once you get to the fleet (regular duty, not a training command) every Thursday was a training day. You could cover subjects from fire team tactics to personal finance. The USMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) was a common subject. So there isn't much ambiguity in the minds of any Marine what is a legal order and what isn't. I've heard the other services do pretty much the same thing.

Civil asset forfeiture is nothing less that legalized theft. That is no different than a school yard bully beating up a kid and stealing his lunch money. Only it's "ok" because the government is doing it. It is still theft and it is immoral.