Tyrell

but that begins to get ridiculous. each subsequent game has a jedi that was mysteriously absent the previous game, but yet powerful enough to suddenly appear and follow his predecessors? then if they have kotor4, the new guy goes off in search of revan, the exile and the kotor3 pc? then in kotor5 the new guy goes off in search of revan, the exile, kotor3 pc, and kotor4 pc? rinse and repeat. that would be, imo, lame story telling. if they wanted a different protagonist for each installment, then they shouldnt leave anything open ended and/or not include the previous antagonist in the story. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, there would be no KOTOR 4 or KOTOR 5. It would end as a trilogy at KOTOR3. So really in the end the Trilogy was one huge story that was told from the perspective of 3 people. Revan, The Exile, and the KOTOR3 PC. If there would be other KOTOR games after part 3, it would start from a different era with new characters, story, and location. And having NOTHING to do with the previous 3.

Honestly I don't think that by having a 3rd Protagonist is a bad idea. KOTOR was the story of Revan, TSL was the story of the Exile. TSL ends with the exile seeking out Revan and the True Sith. Part 3 could take place right after TSL with a new person coming in. This person could be a former Jedi who left the order after the Jedi Civil War. Not another exile, but a person who just left on his own will. He could regain his connection to the force, and seek out Revan/Exile. Somewhere in the beginning of the game like in TSL, through dialog you can decide the gender and Force alignment of Revan and the Exile.

I believe that Obsidian was trying to do like what George Lucas does with the OT/PT. In A New Hope/The Phantom Menace it is like KOTOR, it introduces the characters and the basic plot. And they all end with a ceremony or gathering. ANH ended with the celebration on Yavin and TPM ended with the ceremony on Naboo. KOTOR ended with the ceremony on the Unknown World (Both DS and LS). With Empire Strikes Back and Attack of the Clones they all ended on cliffhangers, MAKING you want to see what happens next. In ESB you find out the Vader is Lukes Father, Han is captured, and Luke is defeated. The movie ends with Luke and Leia heading somewhere out in space getting ready to save Han. Not really a cliff hanger but it makes you crave for more. Same with Attack of the Clones. It ends with Dooku escaping, the Clone Wars beginning, and Padme/Anakin getting married then BAM! It ends. Again not a cliff hanger but it makes you crave for more. With TSL the same goes. It ends with the knowing where Revan really went, it left us knowing that there is ANOTHER Sith Empire out there. It ends with you going out into far space searching for Revan/This Sith Empire then again BAM! It ends, making you crave for more. With KOTOR 3 (I know there will be one) it would go the same route ROTS/ROTJ goes. ROTS ends with the PT being complete, the Republic is dead, the Empire is born, and the Jedi are gone, thus ending the PT. ROTJ ends with the completition of the OT. The Empire is dead, the republic is back and so are the Jedi. KOTOR 3 would be the exact same.

When KOTOR was in production under Bioware way back when, did they have the Sith Lords story in mind? What I mean is....when Bioware was creating KOTOR, were they thinking about some aspects of what the sequel could be like? Was the exile in mind? What about Kreia? Did they want the sequel to be based heavily on the Mandalorian War? But in the end handed the sequel over to Obsidian cause they were too focused on Jade Empire. Do you think that EVERYTHING TSL was that of result of Obsidian or did Bioware have some play in it as well. I mean we all know that Obsidian created the story themselves but it is possible that some ideas and aspects of the story could be things that Bioware had in mind. Bioware gave Obsidian everything else like sound engine, graphics engine and other gameplay tools. So it could be possible that Bioware gave Obsidian some storyline elements. It could have went like this: Bioware "I know that you are doing the story yourself but there is some things that we had in mind that we'll like for you all to use. Nothing major, but just some nick nacks here and there" Obsidian "Okay cool, just send them over to us and we'll see what we can do. We'll somehow incorporate your ideas into our overall story." What do you all think?

To tell you guys the truth the only reason why I believe Bioware didn't developer K2 was that they were too busy with Jade Empire. I mean much of the KOTOR team is the Jade Empire team. So if they did make a K2 either K2 or JE would be crappy cause less time would be spent on one of them. So Bioware just gave the KOTOR license to Obsidian to babysit for the time being. Once Jade Empire is out in March, I'd expect some type of KOTOR 3 announcement from Bioware at E3. Besides, I believe Bioware would use the Jade Empire engine for K3 which would be better. I don't think Bioware would give Obsidian the JE engine to do a K3. I just don't see them doing much of that. Let Obsidian do their own engine. It is like a kid in school constantly letting the dude beside him copy answers off of him. Yes Obsidian could do a good job with K3, but at the end of the day Bioware (The team who started KOTOR glory) would be the better bet.

Same here I hated the ending to. I mean I can see how the ending would set up for a part 3 but still, they could have atleast revealed more. All I can say is IF there is a third KOTOR. Please give it back to Bioware and take it out of the hands of Obsidian. There wasn't even a TV commercial for TSL. There was one for Mercenaries (A LucasArts title) and other LA games prior to TSL but NO advertising for TSL.

considering malak was on the cover of kotor1, i dont see the big deal. he didnt exactly have a tonne more "air time" than nihilus, and atris definitely had a bigger part in the story in terms of "air time" than malak did in kotor1. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Okay now you are just talking out of crazyness. You CANNOT sit there and say Malak was no different then Nihlius. Atleast Malak WAS the FINAL boss. He was the MAIN boss and the person you were seeking throughout the WHOLE game. I mean the storyline in a way centered around him. You were to go back in re-visit the places that Revan and Malak visited years ago so you can put together the puzzle to see how you track down and defeat Malak. Also Malak had more of a backstory as well as he was your past apprentice/friend who betrayed you and took the mantle of Dark Lord of the Sith. It was MALAK who ordered the destruction of Taris. It was MALAK who ordered the destruction of the Jedi Academy on Dantooine. It was MALAK that you were trying to save Bastilla from. It was MALAK who had soul possesion of the Star Forge. With all that stuff, Malak had MORE of a part in the story then Mask face. Yes Mask face was one of the 3 Sith Lords. Yes he was the master of the Blind one. And yes he was the who destory the Blind one's planet. THATS IT. Malak has more on him. That was a poor example by you. But nice try though. Hell

that sounds like a good explanation <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Naw, that is just a well put together excuse. Don't give me that crap. Just admit it. Obsidian used Nihilus only because he looked more appealing and same with Atris. So Obsidian felt that these two characters would open the eyes of the KOTOR fans. And to tell you the truth they prevailed. Everyone was talking about the Masked Sith and the White-Haired Jedi. Just like when they made that wallpaper of the two fighting each other.

Yeah well I sort of had a deadline for the review and I was quite past it so it was a rushed review as you all can tell. But one of my main things was to not be much of a suck up. What needed to be known was known. Yes I admit, I did take more of the pissed off gamer view rather then the normal way but hey. Take a look at my MTV's Music Generator 3 review. You'll see my true skills. That TSL review isn't my normal writing. Besides it isn't like I'm doing this as a job, its just a fansite. None of us get paid. However I do get to goto E3 this May for free!

^^^^^^^^ Not really false advertisement but misleading advertisement. Obsidian/LA threw Darth Nihilus's face on almost anything and everything TSL. But yet out of the 3 Sith Lords, his role was the smallest. Sion had more of a role then Nihilus. Thats one of many questions I have. Hell out of the 3 Sith Lords he was the easiest to defeat. I believe since he looked more appealing they decided to hype him up. If you ask me thats something a little kid would do. "Oh WOW! He looks soooo cool man! We should just use him to put on the pictures for TSL. Man he looks soooo cool!" ...Pathetic....

It is a cliffhanger. Like someone said, it does end with the idea of what K3 would be about and your possible role in it. But what really hurts the ending is that there are MANY things that would just make you say "huh?". Don't want to say too much but you'll see.

Yeah, wait til Revenge of the Sith comes out. Then we'll see if yalls take on Anakin changes.

http://xbox.playmoreconsoles.com/review.asp?RevID=277 What do you think? Agree or dissagree?

See thats just the thing....sometimes you can do just that and STILL not get the cut-scene. Thats my whole basis. It happened to me and many other people, just goto the GameFAQs forum and you'll see. Yes paying the little rat will fix it most of the times, but for those unlucky people, STILL NOTHING happens.

Well every game has them. Some so minor that you don't even notice them, some so major that it totally takes away from the gameplay. If anyone played or followed KOTOR, you'll know of the Carth Glitch. I really never experienced it (Thank God!) but I think it occurred once you saved Bastilla/Carth on the Leviathon or something like that. I believe the game just freezes or some **** like that. Like I said I never experienced it but I did read some of the threads over at Bioware so I believe I have some knowledge of it. The Carth Glitches was one of those glitches that was minor in the way that it really didn't hurt the gameplay. All you had to do was turn off the game and start from where you last saved. Depending on the last time you saved, it could be really major or minor. In TSL one of the many things that people wanted least was the bugs/glitches. KOTOR had many of them but mostly minor irriating ones. Sadly TSL does exactly the opposite of what the fans wanted. Take the glitches of KOTOR and times them by 3 and you have the level of effect of the TSL glitches. The noticable one by many is what I call the Nar Shaddaa Glitch. Since this IS the General Gameplay forum I won't giveaway anything that has to do with the story. But let me just put it like this. After Handle Certain Business on Nar Shaddaa, there is supposed to be a cut-scene triggered. Once this happens you can now progress further onto the planet and continue it's story. See the problem is, sometimes (No matter what you did and how much you did on Nar Shaddaa) this cut-scene isn't triggered. If it isn't triggered then you can progress. You can leave the planet and complete the rest of the planets and still come back and the cut-scene still won't trigger. Leaving you in a position to where the only solution is to just delete the game file and start ALL OVER. There is a way to get around it depending on when was the last time you saved the game. If the last time you saved was BEFORE you "handled that business" then you can always load it back up, handle the business and just hope for the cut-scene to come up. If it goes like that then you are okay. But you are **** out of luck if you last saved it AFTER the handled business (Including Auto-Saves). That means you cannot go back, you are just stuck. If this happens....then the scene never comes up. You are just put in the position to just start ALL OVER. The Nar Shaddaa Glitch is one of those bugs that drastically effect the gameplay in a major way in which it essentially ends the game for you forcing you to start over. I mean lets say you completed ALL of the planets and NS is your final one and you have like a level 50 Jedi. You would have to start ALL OVER which would really suck. I would say that this IS worst then the Carth Glitch of KOTOR and is probably one of the worst game glitches of all time if not THE WORST of all time. Cause this actually ****s up your game to the point where it totally messes it up on a massive level. I experienced game glitches in the past that messed up the GP but never have I experienced one that made you start over. Sad/Funny thing is, if don't follow any strategy guides or anything, you would never know that this glitch is in effect which is another reason why I believe it is THE worst ever. You can run around Nar Shaddaa trying to progress for days, weeks, and months thinking that there is something small that you have overlooked. That can really make a person go crazy cause I know I did. In reality, you aren't overlooking anything it is just that the cut-scene never occurred which inables you to progress further. I'm sorry I've played many games in my life but never went through something like this. I mean there may have been glitches in games that deletes your game file or enables you to save or some **** like that, something to make you start over like this one. But this not only makes you start over, atleast on those glitches you know that something is wrong, with this one you'll never know it happens. You'll just keep running around trying to find something. You'll only find out once you seek help and only to find out that a cut-scene should have occurred but didn't. What do you guys think? I mean I must say, I really love the story in TSL and I can see where Obsidian might be heading with this so far as a part 3 goes. But it is just these many bugs that ****s up the whole gaming experience. Not to mention these lousy load times. But yeah, what do you think of this glitch?

May I ask why Anakin Skywalker the hero of the Clone War and Leader of the Jedi Purge isn't up their

Okay with my DS character he has the The Republic is weak idea. That they do need to be destroyed and a more powerful order needs to take shape. What order would that be? He doesn't know but he does know that the Republic needs to throw in the towel. I mean without the Jedi, the Republic would have lost the Mandalorian War. In his eyes they have been weak since the end of the Exar Kun war. He also believes in the strongest survives theory. That the weaker solution should be thrown away and the stronger one should step up. So in cases where the republic is supported, he would go against that like going against the Queen on Onderon. On Telos the strongest srvives thing comes into play. He believes the Czerka is the stronger organization to help rebuild Telos whereas the Ithorian are just some Hippy type peace loving creators who won't be able to stand on their own two feet without aid. He believe in the long run that the Czerka would be the better fit. Besides, the Czerka doesn't have all that much love for the Republic anyways. With Nar Shaddaa that would be tricky. I don't know how I'm going to handle it.

I know the topic sounds weird but I just thought about something. Does K3 HAVE to be a direct sequel to K2? Like how K2 was to K1? I my mind I believe KOTOR should go the route of that of Final Fantasy. Each game with its own locations, characters, and story and not having ANYTHING to do with the past installments. I personally believe that K3 should take place MANY years after K2....say like 50 years or even 100 years after K2. Start over with a new plot and set of characters. Get away from this Mandalorian War based plot that K1 had and K2 had. The Mandalorian War should be a thing of the past and have NO direct effect to K3. Same with the Jedi Civil War. Lets start off with a new Sith Lord, new technology and new motives. Not saying that picking up after K2 would be bad but I think it would in many ways hurt the game. It is just to broad trying to make a part 3 and trying to decide rather Revan was DS or LS or the Exile was DS or LS or rather Revan was male/female or rather the Exile was male/female. Cause you know if if K3 takes place directly after K2 (As many is implying and probably hoping for) this situation that I just pointed out would come into effect and would cause many continuity problems. Thats why the game should be like 100 years after so we won't have to worry about a Exile or Revan cause they would all be dead. Just start over. We could have a KOTOR franchise without each game being a ideal sequel to the previous one.

Very true and with my DS character I DO do a lot of good deeds for people. Cause in all that is the very essence of this character. He wanted to help people. THAT is why he went to fight in the war. Cause he didn't want the Mandalorians taking over. Thats why the exile grows this hate for the Jedi cause they casted him out of the order. So now the exile is taking the Death to ALL Jedi and to ANYONE who stands in my way type route. And even though you can do good deeds to people to get many DS points, there is many times where things DO get in your way to kill the Jedi and there is many instances where you'll get DS points for going against those who even have the slightest connection to Jedi. Take Onderon for an example. Like I said it is hard to explain but it works out very well in the end. I find myself enjoying TSL more the 2nd time through as a Darksider cause I believe it fits the story better.

With KOTOR I believe playing through as a LS character (Male or Female) was in my mind the idea way for KOTOR. It makes of a better overall story as well, you know....Revan coming back and defeating Malak and saving the Republic. DS could be ideal for KOTOR as well as Revan takes back his role as Sith Lord but I believe the LS way is more ideal for KOTOR. Then we have TSL the more darker version of the two. While playing through KOTOR as the LS Revan fitted KOTOR more (Atleast to me). I believe playing through as the DS Exile is more fitting for TSL. It also helps out with the darker tone in TSL. Instead of trying to go Luke Skywalker and saving the Galaxy which fitted LS Revan more in KOTOR. I believe revenge is a better motive in TSL. The exile seeking revenge on those who casted him out of the Jedi Order for doing what he believed was right. Ever since he (or she) was casted out of the order from there he created this huge hate for the Jedi and the Republic they serve. This would give the exile motives to the many DS choices in the game. The exiles movites wouldn't be to become THE NEXT Sith Lord but to just take revenge against all Jedi. These Jedi being the Jedi on the counsil who casted him out of the order. The exile would consider himself neither Sith or Jedi but more of a person of the force. Much like Keria. Its a lot to explain but I believe going through as a Darkside character is more fitting in TSL then going through as a Lightsider. What do you guys think?

I hate this random generator ****. I remember with my LS character I was getting robes left and right. By the time I finished Telos I had like 4 robes, 2 LS and 2 DS. Now I'm with my DS character I just finished Telos and I'm on Nar Shaddaa now and I ran around a bit and I have yet to find ONE single robe LS or DS.

The last time I heard the Halo fanbase is buzzing crazy over Halo 2. The ONLY downside they say there is to Halo 2 is the ending, it leaves you in a cliff hanger. Other then that graphics, sound, gameplay, options, soundtrack, online etc....are ALL better in Halo 2. Just admit it, TSL wasn't the sequel to KOTOR that everyone expected. I mean you can't sit there and say after you finished KOTOR for the first time and was thinking about KOTOR 2, you CANNOT say that TSL was what you had in mind.

Okay so if you make a Thread called GTA: VC VS GTA: SA, I don't believe Vice City would have even half of the votes of San Andreas. Why? Cause SA is truely a better game. Halo won't have half (Or any) votes compared to Halo 2 which is a way better game and a great true sequel. My point is, it is a let down for Obsidian to see that almost half of the votes is saying they enjoyed KOTOR better. That is like saying many people enjoyed Halo better then Halo 2, that would be a dissapointment to Bungie cause that meaned that they failed to make a game better then Halo. Same for VC vs SA, it would be a let down for Rockstar North if half of the people said that they liked VC more then SA. You guys makes it out as if it is an okay thing for KOTOR to have the same (Or even more) votes then TSL. Infact it ISNT. It just goes to show how TSL wasn't that great of a sequel like what Halo 2 was to Halo, San Andreas was to Vice City, MP Echoes was to MP, NFSU2 was to NFSU get my point? You do a poll for those games and people would say the sequel was WAY better then the first. And thats how it should be. The last time I checked, people is supposed to like the sequel to a game more then the orignal cause normally the sequel is better in many means. Not saying the orignial sucks but the sequel is by rule supposed to be the better of the 2. Too bad for Obsidian, that rule doesn't come into effect. HALF of the votes is saying that the first was a better game. It just shows that we didn't get a truely great sequel like the other games, instead we just got a sub-par title that is highly equel (if not worst) then the original with only a few new things here and there but overall being the two games are about equel.

Its sad that its even this close. TSL SHOULD be higher then KOTOR but it isn't. That just goes to show how lousy of a sequel TSL was. Make a thread like this for Halo vs Halo 2 and see what the response is. Make a thread like this for GTA: VS and GTA: SA and see what the response is. Make a thread like this for Metroid Prime vs Metroid Prime 2 and see what the response is. Make a thread like this for NFSU vs NFSU2 and see what the response is. See where I'm headed? If I were a Obsidian employee I would be ashamed that KOTOR is getting just as many votes as TSL. Its not a good thing for this poll to be this close. But for Bioware this is a HUGE complement.

Well you ARE in the STORYLINE forum and talking about the STORYLINE is in general going to have SPOILERS cause it is talking about the STORY. I mean, what do you EXPECT when you come into the STORYLINE forum? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This topic was moved here from general discussion. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> In that case then I'm the one looking stupid at the end....