Darth Frog

During my last game I had plenty occasion to wonder about the random loot generator. This was the fifth play-through and so I had a pretty good idea what to expect. Or so I thought. On one hand I was pretty lucky: two Barab Ore Ingots and two Pontite crystals. Never got more than one of those before, if at all. But apart from sabre crystals all drops were uniformly poor; the only interesting item I got was the Tech Belt. By leaving all merchants untalked-to until the last possible time and hearty reloading I was at least able to buy Bothan Precision Gloves and a Bothan Sensory Visor, plus some lesser items like Regal Visor, Bindo's Band and Eriadu Strength Amplifier gloves. But that was it. No Circlet of Saresh, no Force Focussing Visor, no Dominator Gloves, no CNS/GNS Strength Enhancer belts, no high-grade implants, not even something like the middling Bavakar Strength System (+3 STR, similar to the +3 DEX Reaction System that you can craft). That is, no high-level STR boost items, no high-level WIS/CHA boost items, no high-level DEX boost items. Nothing. In fact, apart from the sabre crystals, Tech Belt and Sith Power Gloves all the loot was like what you would expect in the teen levels or earlier, not the twenties and thirties. The endgame was especially frustrating in this regard - nothing at all on Citadel, crap on the Ravager, crap on Malachor. Lots of utterly useless junk like almost a hundred Life Support Packs, fifty shields, plenty of Chemicals (last lab bench is on Telos, before the chat with Atris), plenty of grenades. Plenty of lowest-grade implants of the sort that you can craft around level 10. There are only two notable differences between this run and the earlier ones. First, right from the start I had been hounded by bad luck. Found dead T3's remains in the fuel pipe on Peragus (although he was re-incarnated later during launch), and the incidence of automatic misses (roll of 1) seemed to be higher than normal. For example, once I got string of five combat rounds with one or more automatic misses at a very inopportune time, while battling a big group of Deadly Laigreks. At that time my Exile was not yet strong enough to kill a Deadly Laigrek in a single round unless all five attacks connect and she did not have any area-effect damage spells either (meaning that mopping up an almost dead foe costed a full combat round without also softening up the other enemies in the area). So she was forced to retreat. The likelihood of such a string is less than one in ten thousand (1/25600th or 0.00004). Of course, even unlikely events do happen occasionally and so this particular incident means nothing. But the automatic misses did seem unusually frequent overall when I cleared out the sublevel. The other notable difference was that all my earlier characters were pretty balanced with regard to attributes; the last of those, a Guardian/Weapon Master, had 14/10/14+4/15+1/14+3/10 (the '+' values are the level-up choices). But the current character - a Guardian/Marauder - was not balanced at all: 18+8/12/16/8/8/8. Note especially the extremely low INT/WIS/CHA, middling CON and extreme STR (with another +6 from LS mastery). It just so happened that my Exile found no less than six of the weakest Mental Boost Something implants that give +1 on each of INT/WIS/CHA, four of them during the endgame. So it is not inconceivable that the game tries to be smart about random loot in some utterly stupid way ... But it may simply be bad luck after all. I liked the KotOR approach better. At least you knew where to get a Circlet of Saresh if you wanted one, or where you could buy a CNS Strength Enhancer, or even Baragwin Assault Blades if you were so inclined. TSL has a small handful of sensibly planted loot - Breath Mask and Safety Harness on Peragus, Stealth Field Enhancer on Citadel, Detonator Gloves on Dxun and the Czerka Utility Belt that you can buy from Kodin on Nar Shaddaa, Ossus Keeper Robes on Onderon - but the game should also give us opportunity to get the more coveted items like Circlet of Saresh or Dominator Gloves. Also, the game lets us craft +3 DEX implants and implants that add +3 to Force DC (+2/+1 WIS/CHA), but the strongest craftable STR implant seems to be +1 ... So, if we get anything at all then only from random loot or random merchant inventories.

Same here. But if you re-play the game a couple of times it quickly becomes apparent that this is Obsidian's first game. Apart from the overall sloppiness there are some shortcomings that serve to compound others. For example, many cutscene-like convos cannot be fast-forwarded through and most cutscenes cannot be skipped or cancelled. This is annoying enough in itself but it also forces you to watch the scenes again in their entirety, and then it is hard not to notice how stupid many of them really are (e.g. Iziz palace, Kavar's heroic battle against two grunts). Also, during subsequent play-throughs there are other aspecs that serve to highlight the shortcomings. First, you already know what is supposed to happen, and so you actually notice if it doesn't. Example: in my last game I found the remains of T3 in the fuel pipe upon re-entering Peragus from the Harbinger - apparently he had picked a fight with the sonic mine at the door and lost. I knew that you are supposed to find him alive and so I was not pleased. Reloading a save from before the re-entry changed nothing, the time of T3's demise must have been much earlier (probably around the time of the last HK chat). T3 reappeared later during the Ebon Hawk launch with copies of his equipment. Another example: Dxun, melee before first departure to Iziz. My Exile joined the fray by Force Jumping an assassin - and immediately got the Mandalore cutscene. I knew that there was much more fun to be had on this occasion, and so I was not pleased. Second, you already know how the game works, what you as a player can do, and then it can be quite frustrating if stupid, small-minded scripting keeps you from doing what you want. Example, normally you can switch equipment around between party members while on the Ebon Hawk, and you can have skilled party members (e.g. T3) use workbenches outside the Ebon Hawk. But you can do no such thing from the time you have triggered the Exchange invitation until you have freed the Exile on Goto's yacht. So, although your sidekicks are ostensibly using the Ebon Hawk in order to get to Goto's Yacht they cannot exchange equipment; your last chance for switching equipment around is way back, before triggering the invitation. Same for the endgame; presumably your party uses the Ebon Hawk to fly to Malachor but the last time where you have free access to your party members is before the Ravager, during the Citadel interlude (you can't get to the Ebon Hawk there either but you can summon your sidekicks). Third, you get all these nice buff powers like Battle Meditation or Fury, but the way the game is scripted you can never use them when you would like to do so most - in boss fights. By the time the bloody cutscenes and convos are over all buffs have worn off and it would be imprudent to waste three or four combat rounds for buffing up. Not to mention utterly stupid things like that you can get poisoned, stunned or paralysed in scripts even if you are immune to poison, stun and paralysis effects because of class feats (Sentinel), equipment, or buffs.

Easy enough, as with any other botched character: let your sidekicks fight for you and use items if you are solo (medpack, stims, shields, grenades, mines). Later in the game the area spells become very efficient against grunts and beasts but bosses tend to have annoyingly high saves. The Leviathan edition of you-know-who is surprisingly weak, by the way; he goes down if you slap him two or three times (vs. one combat round if you use melee weapons).

Why don't you check your 'facts' in-game before you post? It is easy enough to do. The DEX bonus limit on armour does not affect the DEX bonus to attack with ranged weapons (same for melee weapons and lightsabres if you have the appropriate finesse feats). Apart from that there are quite a number of situations where armour can be useful for a Jedi: * Exile with Kreia in the party: Force Link. 'Nuff said. * Situations where you cannot use the Force, either because it is not allowed or because you have run out of juice: sparring with Handmaidens, sparring with Mandalorians, tomb on Korriban (LS). * Situations where you choose not to use the Force: e.g. sticking one of your padawans into a fine piece of upgraded heavy armour so that even bosses have trouble scratching them, as I did during the last Dxun tomb outing (Atton tanking for Disciple and G0-T0) * Physical combat against enemy Jedi who can debuff you. Moot point in TSL as there are none (just grunts with glowsticks), but there are a couple in KotOR. For example, when you fight Darth Wuss at the end of the game he will almost always cast Force Breach if you get in range with Speed active (except for the first fight after the initial chat, which is probably a bug). If you are a Guardian then it doesn't matter, as you can cast Speed while he is out of range or otherwise occupied (e.g. when he uses one of his med cylinders) and then you can Force Jump him with Speed still active; your second turn will then be enough to finish him off even if you get debuffed. For non-Guardians, DEX builds will have high AC with robes but other characters are in a situation where armour looks mighty attractive for any form of combat that is not restricted by armour - and this includes casting spells like Destroy Droid. Armour with an overall defense rating (AC + DEX limit) of 13 is common, and some rare pieces have even higher rating. E.g. Sith Battle Suit (7/7) or Felenar Armour (11/4). With Bonded Plates and Flexible Underlay you can increase the defense rating by 3/3. Certain weapon upgrades or shielding visors can add another 2..3 DB. With 3 DB from Master Duelling this makes for an overall defense bonus of 24...27 depending on your looting luck. Nothing to sneeze at. During the earlier parts of the game this makes you completely untouchable, until the early twenties by which time male Exiles can become untouchable with robes (via DEX/WIS). I tend to prefer low-AC damage dealers who have to out-damage the enemy or die (the Zabrak Grip philosophy), but turtling can be fun for a change.

Korriban is just a side show. In the other places there is lots more to do and lots more action.

How so? It is only four feats (2x Focus/Specialization) and some classes get Lightsabre Weapon Focus for free. The epic Weapon Specialization feats are superfluous by the time you get access to them - they only increase attack bonus, of which you have more than enough if you select suitable equipment and upgrades. Dito for Precise Shot. A combined blaster/sabre Jedi is not only feasible, it is easy as pie. And if you're playing a male Exile then you can even turn this into an untouchable turtle build without sacrificing offensive capabities. Assuming that you have the Lightsabre Finesse feat, boosting DEX will increase defense, sabre attack and blaster attack. With Battle Precognition, boosting WIS will increase both defense and Force power. As regards feats, any character with 16 CON can plug in an Advanced Combat Implant (craftable item) and equip a Multispectral Target Assessor visor (easy to find as loot at higher levels, some vendors may also have it). This will give you blaster Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Precise Shot I/II, and +4 attack bonus in addition to the feats. So you can try the stuff out simply by plugging in some equipment.

The only challenge in the game is the final sparring round against the five Handmaidens; the first planet may offer a few interesting situations but even those are challenging only in the sense that you die if you do something stupid rather than that you have to play well to win. That leaves basically two options. Option 1, treat combat the same as walking from A to B, something that has to be done in order to get to the next step of your point-and-click adventure. This turns combat into an unsatisfying, mindless chore, and since there is no real incentive to play well there is no reason to fool around with attributes, feats, powers, items, upgrades, stances (forms) and combat tactics, except in an absent-minded, lets-see-if-this-looks-cool fashion. Option 2, replace the non-existent death penalty for playing poorly with your own judgement. One aspect of this can be to impose some rules, to limit your power without limiting your choices to the point where there are no more interesting choices to be made (that's why gimping your character by using auto-levelling isn't a whole lot of fun, and it isn't very effective anyway). In KotOR this worked extremely well, it became nicely challenging if you went solo and avoided the use of 'consumables' like medpacks, stims, shields and explosives. Another aspect is to treat fights as if they were difficult and evaluate your performance critically. For example, a melee fighter should be able take out any enemy in a single combat round, with the exception of some mini-bosses and other toughies where two rounds are allowable (three for Kreia with her 1000+ VP, and Horn Kath Hounds if you go to Dantooine early). If this doesn't happen and it was not due to an automatic miss then you have not played well; past level 15 or so even a single automatic miss per combat round should not break your stride. Another thing to watch is VP which should not drop noticably unless tanking was part of the battle plan. So, by creating your own measure of success and failure you get an incentive to play well, despite the fact that the game itself lets you muddle through even if you do stupid things with a badly botched build. Also, some situations lend themselves naturally to inventing your own minigames. For example, in the Shyrack Cave on Korriban the beasties will start killing each other as soon as you enter. But since you paid for the game and they didn't, it is only fair that you should bag all the kills, right? It is doable but it is not easy. Which is just as it should be. :D

What makes you ask that? Even Sentinels and Consulars can take the Heavy Armour feat and so it would be decidedly odd if Weapon Master and Marauder - who are like Guardians on steroids except that they don't get Force Jump - were not allowed to. Cannot check this, though, because I purged most savegames and in the last two playthroughs I took the Heavy Armour feat long before becoming Weapon Master and Marauder. Or did you expect Weapon Master and Marauder to get the feat as a bonus feat, like Guardians did in KotOR?

This (and the % of updated XP) is mentioned in Kreia's Feats Tab (Mentor Ability) Oops! I guess I should learn to read. :">

Update: just found an odd tidbit that wasn't in the FAQs either. It appears that Kreia's Mentor Ability scales with Kreia's taken level. That is, if you don't level her up then the XP bonus percentage is smaller. I haven't done any rigorous testing in order to find out if there are other factors (like e.g. the Exile's taken level or the Exile's XP-equivalent level and so on) but I thought some of you might want to know, as it is not entirely unusual to leave NPCs with levels hanging if you don't need them for more than the amusement value.

I think Dxun is one of the best planets and for that it deserves to be 'done first' first, IYKWIM. :D Nice NPC chats, nice little quests that fit the overall scene & atmosphere, plus the Battle Circle. I think overall it is probably the best-designed and most coherent of all planets. Dantooine is also pretty good but Dxun is a bit better. Onderon I found only so-so, mostly because of the contrast between all the talk of the overwhelming threat from the Sith and Vaklu's troops and such, while the loyal soldiers are actually standing around yawning (if they aren't competing with your party for the few bits of cannon fodder that do get served). And lots of running to and fro when you first get there, although apart from that I quite enjoyed the murder investigation. When I first played the game for the first time.

Hehe, in KotOR the most powerful combo was a Baragwin Assault Blade (a vibro) in the main hand and some glowstick or other in the off-hand for Force Jump. But I just found out something nice that is good news for aesthetes like our Lady Crimson: it seems that game treats a single lightsabre as a two-handed weapon unless you dual-wield, meaning that the two-handed stance with a single sabre is not merely a visualization but actually reflected in the game logic. That is, you do get the 1.5 multiplier for the STR damage bonus. I am sure Saberist (a.k.a. VotF) would very much approve. For a high-STR character the difference between single-wielding and dual-wielding is fairly marginal. Assuming a STR mod of 20 and thus +10 extra damage per main hand attack, and further assuming five main hand attacks per round (Master Flurry + Master Speed + Juyo) we get +50 extra damage per round for the two-handed stance with a single sabre, vs. roughly 50 per round that an off-hand sabre would do. So it is pretty much a wash, unless you have Master Duelling and your Exile is a turtle build, in which case the +3 defense can make a difference (if your buff sabre does not give you at least as much). But a turtle build wouldn't have that kind of STR to begin with, so a turtle would probably opt to dual-wield in order to get both more damage and more buffs. Of course, with a double-bladed sabre you get the extra damage in addition to the off-hand attack and the higher base damage of the double-bladed sabre. Now, if only there were a couple more Zakkegs, Drexls, Greater Storm Beasts, and Sions, plus a smattering of Rancors peppered with Malaks ... :D

Okay, here's a reason for doing Dantooine first: some of the fights can be rather interesting if you are still low level, especially if you solo. For example, the mercenaries at the entrance of the Kinrath cave (if you tell Azkul to FOAD), the Horn Kath Hounds, the Kinrath Matriarch, and Vrook. And here's a reason not to do Dantooine first: there are lots of nicely spaced beasties but you don't have a lightsabre yet and so you can't use Force Jump. Meaning you have to run from one to the other. Urrghh. How pedestrian! If you do Korriban first and Dantooine later then you'll have your lightsabre and your prestige class, and so you can merrily zip around the plains with Master Speed Fury Force Jump. :D

Same with Force DC. Both BAB and Force DC increase 1 per level, even more if you take into account boni from attribute mods, feats and items/upgrades. Defense and saving throws increase at a much more sedate pace, which is why only turtle builds have enough defense to matter during the later parts of the game. The prestige class feats that boost attack bonus - either directly or by decreasing AB penalties - are utterly useless because by the time you get access to those feats you have plenty AB already. And the gap only widens as you progress. The standard Master Two-Weapon Fighting feat already reduces the penalty to -2/-2. Using a balanced weapon in the off-hand (or a double-blader) reduces this to 0/-2, and doing so can be advisable during the earliest parts of the game (Peragus, Citadel) and for the final sparring round against the five Handmaidens. But by the time you get your mitts on a short lightsabre you likely won't need the minuscule AB boost anymore or at least you won't need it much longer. Unless you are playing a non-melee character, of course. Last but not least, with a careful selection of crystals and upgrades an off-hand buff sabre can more than compensate the loss of 3 defense compared to wielding a single sabre with Master Duelling. So even turtle builds can profit from dual-wielding and it is hard to see any character single-wielding in the later parts of the game, except for purely aesthetic reasons.

Before too many different posts appear you should clarify the thrust of your question, whether you are more interested in the combat properties of sabres within the game, or whether you want to focus on aesthetic/role-playing aspects. Combat properties: double-bladed lightsabres are two-handed weapons, meaning the STR damage bonus for main hand attacks is multiplied by 1.5; they also have higher base damage than 'singles'. Around level 30 this means 10..15 more damage per main hand attack, depending on your stats. Normal single-bladed lightsabres have double the critical range (19-20 vs. 20-20 for double-bladers), meaning they are the way to go if you are aiming for damage via critical hits. If you dual-wield normal sabres then you need crystals and upgrades for each sabre while you need only one set for the double-blader. In this regard dual-wielding can be an advantage, because you can switch to different buff sabres in the off-hand while still keeping your main sabre with the pet crystal in the main hand. Conversely, a high-damage crystal like the Barab Ore Ingot in a double-bladed sabre works on both main hand and off hand and you are unlikely to find more than one such crystal. However, the off hand does not contribute a whole lot to overall damage (at most one attack per round) and so it is not terribly important. So, have your pick. Stat/defense buffing: dual-wield normal sabres. Critical hits: dual-wield keened normal sabres. Highest damage output w/o criticals: double-bladed sabre. I tend to prefer the latter.

It doesn't matter which master you learn from first. You won't get Juyo or Niman, until you learn from the third master you meet. Thus, if you do Dantooine first, the form you'll get from Vrook will be Shien, if you're a Sentinel or Guardian (or the equivalent prestige class). The second master gives you Ataru, and the third will give you Juyo or Niman, depending on whether you're a Sentinel / Watchman / Assassin (Niman), or a Guardian / Weapons Master / Maurader (Juyo). Thanks for the clarification, this is a good thing to know. So if we need to have 'done' all three of the big planets before we get Juyo then there's not a lot of opportunity to use it in big battles ... <_< One could save Korriban for last but there's not a whole lot of battling to be done on the Sith planet. The opposition there is mostly vermin, more like a job for a Kammerj

I know, but where's the sport in achieving something via infinite exploits?

Darth Radnor, a listing of planet orders is boring without an argument why this order should be of interest. For example, LadyCrimson has given a perfectly honourable reason. Erm, well, perhaps not exactly honourable but at least perfectly understandable. Atton and Disciple are so cute when they fight! And who wouldn't raze four planets just to get Visas? Except that she comes on her own before you even get started on your first planet, of course. More's the pity.

Nice diabolical plot. :D But is it actually possible to go from evil prestige class (i.e. strongly DS at level 15) all the way to LS mastery? Otherwise you'd have pulled a Bindo for a rug. Of course, people have switched allegiance for less ... In my current game I found that the mostly kick-the-kitten type DS options were not worth it to endure the horrible skin disease (even Visas and Atton looked awful). A few hearty chats with Kreia and Visas have cured the skin disease already, and for once my Exile will really welcome the LS options as chances to redeem herself. The black-and-red jumpsuit she wore for sparring with the Handmaidens was rather nice, though. :D By the way, I'd prefer the Enlightenment spell over Force Crush, especially for my Marauder. I mean, why waste a combat round for a spell that does something like 200 damage if you do ~500 damage per round with your sabre? Even Sion goes down in a single round. One good thing about the DS path is that you don't have to suffer fools gladly, instead you make them suffer. Especially Vrook. And Handmaiden looks really good in black.

Mhmm ... Visas will show up at your first stop after Atris in any case, so what could you possibly mean? " :D

It is not necessary to go to Dantooine early merely in order to get the highest possible upgrade level for your pet crystal, since you get exactly the same effect if you do Dantooine last. AFAICS the upgrade schedule for the crystal is one upgrade per three levels, with the first upgrade at level 12 and the last at level 33. For example, if you acquire the crystal when you are level 25 then you get all previous upgrades up to the one for level 24 and the crystal 'glows brightly'. Don't you just love it if somebody sells you a game and does not tell you what the rules are ... " You need to talk to Kreia in order to get your crystal updated and Kreia clams up once you have retrieved the last starmap. Thus for most people the last possible upgrade will probably be the one for level 27 ("glows brilliantly") although level 30 is just barely possible. The upgrade for level 33 seems impossible to get without exploiting one of the infinite XP glitches. For some classes there is a good reason to finish Dantooine early, though, as Master Vrook seems to teach the Juyo form to Guardians and Weapon Masters. Don't know about other classes but I'll know Marauder soon, very soon.

"You n'wah!" "

If your effective Repair skill rank is at least 20 then you achieve perfect efficiency when breaking down items into components; if the skill rank is less then you get less components (except for things like datapads etc. that break down into a single item in any case). Apart from certain exceptional circumstances it is always the Exile's skill that is used for breaking down items, even if it is somebody else who is using the workbench. The exceptions are situations where the Exile is not in the party, and it seems that in this case the skill of the party leader is used. It seems, though, that breaking down mines, medpacks etc. into chemicals (at a lab bench) is not affected by this bug.

It is well-known that Kreia's Mentor Ability adds a small percentage to any XP if Kreia is in the party. It is also well-known that the game gives you the needed XP for the next level-up when you get your prestige class (unless you have a level hanging, in which case you get nothing). What I had hitherto not known is that Kreia's Mentor Ability also applies to the prestige class level-up XP bonus. :D When my Guardian reached the level-up threshold for level 15 she was out in the field but Kreia was with her. So I had her take level 15 and then I had her talk to Kreia about becoming Marauder and things. When I levelled her up again I expected to see a nice round number for XP (120,000) but what I found was the decidedly odd number 120,747 ... The math works out, it must have been the Mentor Ability. My Exile had 105,079 XP when she took the prestige class, so the game added the 14,921 that were missing to the next level ... and 5% from Kreia on top of that. :D

Ditto, especially in Peragus, where the pc runs around by him/herself, you can use the skills such as * demolition (pick up those mines and blow those stuck doors open), * security (without it you have to smack your vibroblade on those lockers for ages and still get a backpack full of broken items, where do those lockers get that insane damage resistance anyway ) A single swipe with your trusty plasma torch is all that's needed, trust me. You could also use mines for blowing open locks, but then you wouldn't get those mysterious Broken Items that appear in addition to the container's contents if you bash it instead of picking the lock or using explosives. A while ago I decided to make a character that would beat all skill checks, and it turned out that this requires 16 INT (playing on difficult), because of the skill rank cap of level+3 for class skills and the scarcity of skill boost items early in the game. But with 16 INT even a Guardian has more than enough skill points to cover every need and so I used Guardian. Doesn't matter. You have a stable full of sidekicks that you can groom for skill mastery, and they'll be much better at this than you ever will. Unless you want to gimp your Exile by pumping all attribute points into INT, taking the Gear Head feats etc. pp. But even that is not enough because the Exile cannot maximize three attributes at the same time, to beat WIS-Kreia, INT-T3/Bao-Dur and DEX-Atton. The Exile is only needed for breaking items into components on the workbench, although on certain occasions your sidekicks get the honour. Right. But watch the DC. In certain situations lower-level sidekicks can get significantly more XP than the Exile. The XP does not depend on the difficulty of a given task, it follows a completely brain-damaged formula that is mostly proportional to character level (e.g. locks: if DC < 20+level then 5*level else 10*level). I agree, once you get used to be able to do all these things yourself it is rather inconvenient if you have to summon sidekicks for those tasks. However, the only skill the Exile really needs is 20 Repair; a bit of Persuasion is nice but purely optional.