Best ARPG gameplay ever?

[metamag]

I must admit, despite the acute case of consolitis with classic symptoms such as huge fonts, small text sizes, poor textures, disappearing bodies(in old Titan Quest they never disappeared unless you loaded the game and with same amount of rag doll physics) and linearity I can't remember the last time I enjoyed ARPG so much.

 

I'm starting to think that this game might actually have the best combat/character build/statistics effects/animation system of all the ARPGs out there, it might even be better than Diablo 3, certainly when Lucas gameplay is concerned but you really need to learn it first.

 

And PC controls pose no trouble at all anymore, everything works perfectly now when I know what I'm doing, it's like second nature..

 

The only thing it's missing is crafting system.

 

I really feel sad for all those people who were not patient enough to see through consolitis, I almost was one of them, it is going to be a very enjoyable game indeed.

 

P.S.

My biggest regret is that it was not ported from PC and then dumbed down for consoles like Witcher 2 will...

Edited June 16, 2011 by metamag

[metamag]

LOL, look at this topic I posted not so long ago.

 

Wow, I was so clueless it's embarrassing.

[Dan_CW]

Hey there,

 

I just created a thread titled 'early impressions thread':

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=57725

 

My impressions were for the PS3 version, so it may help if you post yours on the PC version there (if you choose to, or even just copy and paste the original post into the thread).

 

And isn't that normally the way, judging a full game based on a demo?

[Sabotin]

Write some more about why you like it so much. The demo is not that good of a showcase to judge things like build system, so I'd appreciate any info.

[metamag]

Write some more about why you like it so much. The demo is not that good of a showcase to judge things like build system, so I'd appreciate any info.

 

The entire combat feels exceptionally well thought out, meaningful and visceral. This is clearly the case with the pure melee character Lucas, no more mindless click spam fests. Here literally every click, motion and ability matters, you actually have to retrain yourself from all other ARPG where you are not encouraged to think about pretty much anything you do, only to have spam "ability". If you click too much you are actually "punished".

I usually never stick to melee characters in RPGs, always end up as a mage, but this is a genuine evolution of ARPG gameplay. And everything is accompanied by fluid animation.

 

As for statistics system it follows through with the combat, meaning that every piece of equipment has big effects and determines how you play and amplifies or decreases chosen abilities.

 

READ EVERY SINGLE HELP TOPIC IN THE DEMO.

Edited June 16, 2011 by metamag

[Tigranes]

Obviously don't have the game yet, but I'd agree that it's worth reading the help topics in the demo. I mean, yeah, usually it's not worth wasting time to read that stuff, but in DS3's case (a) the game doesn't explain them very well otherwise, which isn't very good, but (b) knowing about them opens up so many new possibilities in character building & tactics, which is good.

[metamag]

Like I said, developers really should've posted videos on how to play the game and in how many ways it is different from classic ARPGs.

 

Oh, and people should really understand that this game is better than Titan Quest, Torchlight, Diablo 2 or any other ARPG you played...

 

The only RPGs I haven't played are Dragon Age 2 and Witcher 2, so they might be better, I don't know.

Edited June 16, 2011 by metamag

[Oner]

Told ya it's playable, told ya!

Now if only more people (read: everyone) could stop rage quitting the demo and coming here to offer us their "expert" opinion on things...

 

Like I said, developers really should've posted videos on how to play the game and in how many ways it is different from classic ARPGs.

Dunno, League of Legends does that, and it kills the fun out of exploring the possibilities.

OTOH more videos > less videos

[Dan_CW]

Told ya it's playable, told ya!

Now if only more people (read: everyone) could stop rage quitting the demo and coming here to offer us their "expert" opinion on things...

 

Like I said, developers really should've posted videos on how to play the game and in how many ways it is different from classic ARPGs.

Dunno, League of Legends does that, and it kills the fun out of exploring the possibilities.

OTOH more videos > less videos

 

Only real issue I have with the PS3 version of the game (full version) is a lack of armor variety (in the looks department). On Lucas, I've not found any different looking armor yet but then again, I only recently noticed that Anjali's armor has changed colour. I do fully expect the armor to change later though as I get better gear as the items have all had the same name so far such as 'hauberk of' or 'tassets of'.

 

Apart from that though, I'm enjoying the game. I mean, it's not amazing like many of these games aren't, but it's solid at what it does. That being providing a game where you loot items and kill lots of enemies. I'm glad the writing is of a good quality as well, as is to be expected of Obsidian, and that there's choice and consequences present (though I don't know how well implemented they'll be yet) as it's unusual for this type of game.

 

Also, no technical issues thus far apart from a very minor one that I mentioned in the early impressions thread I linked.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Dan_CW

[Oner]

Only real issue I have with the PS3 version of the game (full version) is a lack of armor variety (in the looks department). On Lucas, I've not found any different looking armor yet but then again, I only recently noticed that Anjali's armor has changed colour. I do fully expect the armor to change later though as I get better gear as the items have all had the same name so far such as 'hauberk of' or 'tassets of'.

I meant control/combat/potion-yay-orb-nay related raging, sorry if it wasn't clear.

[Dan_CW]

Only real issue I have with the PS3 version of the game (full version) is a lack of armor variety (in the looks department). On Lucas, I've not found any different looking armor yet but then again, I only recently noticed that Anjali's armor has changed colour. I do fully expect the armor to change later though as I get better gear as the items have all had the same name so far such as 'hauberk of' or 'tassets of'.

I meant control/combat/potion-yay-orb-nay related raging, sorry if it wasn't clear.

 

Oh, I wasn't really replying to that. It's the statement about this being this being a good ARPG. I only find it's the lack of armor variety in terms of appearance that could let it down in people's eyes. The actual gameplay is solid on the PS3 version at least.

 

So, I guess you could say I quoted wrongly, as I meant Meta's post. My bad. Currently just flitting from the game to here, so I'm not really focusing too much on spelling, getting quotes right etc.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Dan_CW

[C2B]

I think the games problem in that regard is that there are too many randomized items. Around 15'000 (with less than 50 originals IIRC) I think and its "only" a 10-20 hour game. Allocation of the items in the gameworld suffered as a consequence probably.

[Sabotin]

The only video I'd like to see is one showing how to block properly, so that it's as-good-as or better-than rolling arround. I really can't get the hang of it, it's always much easier to just keep moving arround. Kind of reminds me of Witcher 2, hehe.

[Spiked]

Well from playing demo with Lucas, I'll say the balance between dodge and block is, well, great. Blocking drains a certain amount of focus, depending on how much the attack would damage you, while dodge animation has invincibility frames in it (one of the reasons why it shows that the developers knew what they were doing with this combat system) but it also has a bit of a "lag" after the animation , to stop you from spaming it. And it helps that the controls are perfectly responsive too, so you don't have to be afraid to use block in the heat of the battle, since you know it will work whenever you press it. I should mention that I played the demo with the gamepad, that is how I play h&s games, I played Witcher 2 with it too, for example.( PC controls really seam horrible though, they really screwed that part up, hope you'll get used to them, or they will fix them)

 

But the thing is, dodging is always easier and safer then blocking, since it allows you to get out of the way of the attack without much risk. Successful use of block requires the study of enemy attack patterns and animations, or you will spend all the time holding block in the anticipation of the attack instead of attacking enemies. This is what playing devil may cry thought me. In it, you have the trickster style, which gives the a dash option, and it was the best style for beginners, and the royal guard style , which gave you a block option was the hardest since you had to learn all the attack patterns of all the enemies. Though you also had to time your blocks there, if you wanted to block all the damage, its not nearly as hard here, but it does require more effort then simply getting out of the way. It would be good if there are other bonuses for blocking, maybe this is where all those statistics the game has will come into play, I think retribution will deal damage back at enemies even if you block the attacks, it says so in the help section, if I'm not mistaken.

 

One thing that was really fun, is using the sword and shield stance and rushing into group of enemies, attacking them with the sword but paying close attention to the enemies behavior and then timing the blocks. But like I said, dodging will always be easier and safer, and there is the two handed sword for groups of enemies, but this is more fun :D

 

And yeah, form what I saw, the combat with Lucas really seams solid, all the basics seam to be there, I think it really shows that the designers are fans of the combat games like DMC, or street fighter, and simply knew what they were doing with the whole Action part of the game, all the basics seam really solid, for sure.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Spiked

[MonkeyLungs]

Um ...

 

Combat is basic and simple. Upgrade from poit and click? yes. Anything legendary? nope. Fun? sure. Best ever? nope.

 

Really lacklucster rumble support for the control pad.

Eenemies with really basic attack patterns.

Corridor maps detracting from tactical combat by squashing everything into small areas.

Combat animations are ok. Good enough for me.

 

I'm not saying the game is bad, it just isn't anywhere near the best of this genre. I'm glad the upcoming release has you so excited though.

[Renevent]

Um ...

 

Combat is basic and simple. Upgrade from poit and click? yes. Anything legendary? nope. Fun? sure. Best ever? nope.

 

Really lacklucster rumble support for the control pad.

Eenemies with really basic attack patterns.

Corridor maps detracting from tactical combat by squashing everything into small areas.

Combat animations are ok. Good enough for me.

 

I'm not saying the game is bad, it just isn't anywhere near the best of this genre. I'm glad the upcoming release has you so excited though.

 

Yeah I got to pretty much agree with this. I don't think the combat/gameplay is bad or anything, but it's not the best ever. Even beyond that these types of games what's just important as how the game actually plays, is how you build your characters and how that actually translates in to gameplay. I think DS3 lacks here in a few major ways.

 

And did you really say this game will be better than Diablo 3?

Edited June 16, 2011 by Renevent

[MonkeyLungs]

I don't think he tried to tell the future but he did say it was better than Diablo 2 ... for me there is alot more to combat in arpg than just the moves. Things like enemy variety and ai, ability synergy, encounter design, controller feedback, pacing of combat etc. all factor into my opinion.

[metamag]

And did you really say this game will be better than Diablo 3?

 

I watched all the Diablo 3 videos, Barbarian will certainly be an extremely primitive click fest, way inferior to Lucas.

As for others the only thing that will be better is that you won't be forced to play a gender you don't want to play, for example I don't want to play any of the female characters in DS3 because it's immersion breaking.

 

Can't really see how Diablo 3 could be better except for crafting system and the game will probably be a lot bigger.

 

Seriously, Dungeon Siege 3 is far better than Torchlight, Diablo 2 and Titan Quest in every way. If that's not enough for people I don't know what is.

[Pidesco]

I don't think he tried to tell the future but he did say it was better than Diablo 2 ... for me there is alot more to combat in arpg than just the moves. Things like enemy variety and ai, ability synergy, encounter design, controller feedback, pacing of combat etc. all factor into my opinion.

 

 

Those are all rubbish in Diablo 2, though.

 

Diablo 2 strengths are in its replayability and in the very diverse character builds.

[Pidesco]

And did you really say this game will be better than Diablo 3?

 

I watched all the Diablo 3 videos, Barbarian will certainly be an extremely primitive click fest, way inferior to Lucas.

As for others the only thing that will be better is that you won't be forced to play a gender you don't want to play, for example I don't want to play any of the female characters in DS3 because it's immersion breaking.

 

Can't really see how Diablo 3 could be better except for crafting system and the game will probably be a lot bigger.

 

Seriously, Dungeon Siege 3 is far better than Torchlight, Diablo 2 and Titan Quest in every way. If that's not enough for people I don't know what is.

 

 

You have to understand that those games were never about good action combat. They were more about ease of entry and character building.

 

Dungeon Siege 3 really isn't in the same genre as Torchlight or Diablo or the first 2 Dungeon Siege games.

[MonkeyLungs]

I don't think he tried to tell the future but he did say it was better than Diablo 2 ... for me there is alot more to combat in arpg than just the moves. Things like enemy variety and ai, ability synergy, encounter design, controller feedback, pacing of combat etc. all factor into my opinion.

 

 

Those are all rubbish in Diablo 2, though.

 

Diablo 2 strengths are in its replayability and in the very diverse character builds.

 

Actually the stuff I listed is handled quite well in Diablo 2. It's part of why the game got a patch 10 years into it's life and why people still play game, more people than play DS3 by the way.

 

DS3 is not about GOOD ACTION COMBAT either ... it is definitely in the same genre as Torchlight ... this isn't Ninja Gaiden.

Edited June 16, 2011 by MonkeyLungs

[Renevent]

And did you really say this game will be better than Diablo 3?

 

I watched all the Diablo 3 videos, Barbarian will certainly be an extremely primitive click fest, way inferior to Lucas.

As for others the only thing that will be better is that you won't be forced to play a gender you don't want to play, for example I don't want to play any of the female characters in DS3 because it's immersion breaking.

 

Can't really see how Diablo 3 could be better except for crafting system and the game will probably be a lot bigger.

 

Seriously, Dungeon Siege 3 is far better than Torchlight, Diablo 2 and Titan Quest in every way. If that's not enough for people I don't know what is.

 

Dungeon Siege 3 doesn't hold a candle to Diablo 2, Titan Quest, or inevitably Diablo 3 as far as depth goes...and that's what people really enjoy about them.

 

Tens of thousands of people still play Diablo 2 to this day because of this...and in all likelihood this will be the same for Diablo 3...honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the online portion for DS3 is dead inside a year.

Edited June 16, 2011 by Renevent

[Oner]

People play Diablo 2 because

-your character is never done

-it's addicting

Sure, when you tell them this or that game is better, they'll start coming up with reasons, but if you just go and randomly ask someone why he plays it, "it's addictive" will be the answer you get.

 

Also, lol at "more people play Diablo 2". No **** Sherlock.

 

honestly I wouldn't be surprised if the online portion for DS3 is dead inside a year.

As has been said a few million times, DS3 is a co-op game. Of course it won't last as long as Diablo 2 - which is, you know, geared toward MP. Everyone who's paying attention knows that.

[Pidesco]

I don't think he tried to tell the future but he did say it was better than Diablo 2 ... for me there is alot more to combat in arpg than just the moves. Things like enemy variety and ai, ability synergy, encounter design, controller feedback, pacing of combat etc. all factor into my opinion.

 

 

Those are all rubbish in Diablo 2, though.

 

Diablo 2 strengths are in its replayability and in the very diverse character builds.

 

Actually the stuff I listed is handled quite well in Diablo 2. It's part of why the game got a patch 10 years into it's life and why people still play game, more people than play DS3 by the way.

 

DS3 is not about GOOD ACTION COMBAT either ... it is definitely in the same genre as Torchlight ... this isn't Ninja Gaiden.

 

 

Enemy variety and AI is good in Diablo 2?

 

HAHAOHWOW

 

No it isn't Ninja Gaiden, it's a BG:Dark Alliance style game.

[MonkeyLungs]

From a pure gameplay standpoint I find Sacred 2's battle system infinitely more satisfying. I play on Xbox 360 BTW so I'm not even comparing the most optimal interfaces. In fact I can think of many ARPG's whose pure gameplay I find more satisfying AND they have feature rich titles.

 

Saying this title has the best gameplay ever is quite the challenge.