Inception

[Balthamael]

Loved the movie. If you haven't seen it and opened the thread anyway despite the warning, go see it. It's worth it, I promise. Though you may just as well read ahead if you want to. I don't think being spoiled takes anything away from the experience in this movie. Anyway (I'll make a spoiler break, after that no one needs to bother with spoiler warnings in this thread)...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...not only do I think the ending was dream, everything else that was supposedly reality was as well. Notice how they told early on the way to know you are dreaming. Ask yourself how did you end where you are currently, and if there is no real answer, that is an answer right there. We never need to travel anywhere in dreams. We already are where we need to be. But then, we don't see anyone really travelling anywhere in this movie either. It is always cut in the middle of action, we never see the beginnings. Somebody tells Leo's character he needs to go see a guy in Mombasa and whoosh!, Cobb is in a cafe in Mombasa. And speaking of Mombasa, nothing that happened there really made sense. He is being chased by faceless corporate goons, there is a shootout in the middle of day, trying to fit through an alley that is barely wide enough to allow for grown man to pass (why would an alley like that exist?) that kind of things happen in dreams (and movies for that matter, I think Nolan is going for some parallels between dreams and movies here), not in reality.

 

Then there is the way the heist is executed, during a flight. They needed to engineer a fault in Fischer's private plane to force him to take a public flight. It was never shown how this was achieved, presumably Saito had ways to do that. But then, that kind of stuff just gets done in dreams as well. Then, when it is pointed out that they need to bribe the flight crew so they are left alone with the mark during the flight, Saito saiys that he bought the entire airline because that seemed neater. You bought an entire airline for this heist? Seriously? Even before you knew how we were going to do this? Again stuff that happens in dreams but doesn't really make sense in real life.

 

Further, remember the events leading to Mal's hotel room suicide. She had three psychiatrists declare herself sane, then told her lawyer that Cobb had been threatening her safety, so he will be charged for her murder. I understand that he would seem suspicious on those circumstances, but would he really be convicted without real evidence? At least Mal's parents seemed to believe Cobb, given that they were on speaking terms with him. Further, can you really have yourself declared sane? Wouldn't any psychiatrist look an attempt of that as a sign of some kind of mental imbalance? Seems to me like an event that would happen in a dream, to make the dreamer feel persecuted, rather than something that happens in real life.

 

Not saying that there is only one possible interpretation, but it seems to me that this makes most sense. I am currently thinking that pre-suicide Mal was the only other real person in the movie and everyone else is a projection. It is possible that she also is a projection. I don't think that makes the movie pointless at all. I mean, it was an entertaining movie.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Sounds quite non-sensical, don't see the appeal of watching a dream, but it's getting rave reviews.

[LadyCrimson]

You might want to put the word "SPOILERS" in the main title of thread, not just the subtitle, which doesn't show up on forum's main page 'last recent post' sidebar.

 

--A technical nitpick, not plot. Hubby pointed it out and we had a brief debate about it - more I think about it, the more I think he was right. The nitpick is how time works in the different layers of dreams. They said a few times how speed of time passing is different in each layer, going slower and slower the deeper you go. That is, the van falling off bridge = 10 seconds or less in layer1 but in layer 2 that meant long, long minutes of slo-mo anti-gravity & in layer 3 even more time to finish their mission before being kicked awake.

 

The nitpick is that the van is being chased in layer 1 & in layer 2, they can hear/see this sometimes (the shaking of coffee in a cup & booming noises for instance). The inconsistency is how the shaking of coffee in the cup doesn't take a lot longer to occur than it might in layer 1. Where's the time dilation, then? Is it just supposed to be that the cup in layer 2 doesn't shake until minutes after it happens in layer 1? Also, if time slows down in deeper layers, why does "limbo" seem to age you so rapidly? Wouldn't it slow down instead? I know it's just a movie, but it felt inconsistent within the frame of the movie. Did anyone notice/hear something we didn't that would explain that?

 

--On the ending:IMO it's one of those purposely open-ended things that allows you to decide what you think/want it to be, but imo has no true "answer" - everything most people see as clues are probably red herrings or purposefully inserted/omitted in order to invoke endless debate and it does that quite effectively. However...

 

But then, we don't see anyone really travelling anywhere in this movie either. It is always cut in the middle of action, we never see the beginnings.

That happens in almost all movies, especially action ones. I don't think I'd say it's necessarily anything significant in this one. Not saying it couldn't be, but by itself it's not particularly significant.

 

But my personal interpretation would lean towards everything being a dream, too. The biggest thing for me is whether the children were wearing the same clothes at the end as in the supposed dream sessions, but unfortunately I can't remember if they were. They seemed similar at least. Also, I can't recall how long Leo's chr. was supposed to have been away from the US - did they ever actually say? a purposeful omission to retain mystery? -ie, should the children be older in 'reality.' Remember the early phone call where the kids voice went from young to older to young again?

 

One theory I read on the ending being a dream was that Leo's chr. was the actual person being inception-ized, to get rid of his guilt, and his 'team' were the ones doing the job on him - which I find as plausible a plot-theory as any.

Edited July 23, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Humodour]

http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/80941874/

 

Enjoy!

[Volourn]

wtf

[Orogun01]

 

BTW, since we are on the Inception topic; anyone want to discuss the ending?

[LadyCrimson]

 

BTW, since we are on the Inception topic; anyone want to discuss the ending?

Balthamael already made a thread for that. Most ignored it tho...too early (most hadn't seen it yet) perhaps. Or I annoyed them away w/my tech nitpicking.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/index.php?showtopic=55888

[Orogun01]

I'm of the same opinion, but my dead giveaway was when characters from the "reality" started repeating phrases that were previously mentioned during the dream state or the past. Plus It makes sense since it was DiCaprio's subconscious the one that during the whole movie, interfered with the missions and they had said that the subconscious would try to defend itself. And what Lady Crimson said.

[Gorth]

Balthamael already made a thread for that. Most ignored it tho...too early (most hadn't seen it yet) perhaps. Or I annoyed them away w/my tech nitpicking.

I took the liberty of merging the two threads, as they were pretty much about the same topic

[I want teh kotor 3]

If it were all a dream (I think it was), then did Mal necessarily kill herself? Couldn't she have been right?

[Nepenthe]

If it were all a dream (I think it was), then did Mal necessarily kill herself? Couldn't she have been right?

 

Could be, No, yes, it's the whole point...

 

Agree with Lady Crimson, it's intentionally open to interpretation (one way or the other).

Edited July 30, 2010 by Nepenthe

[Orogun01]

If it were all a dream (I think it was), then did Mal necessarily kill herself? Couldn't she have been right?

It's open to interpretation, but she was an unreliable witness since the idea that the world wasn't real was already implanted in her brain.

Edited July 30, 2010 by Orogun01

[Purkake]

Great movie, got some nice Matrix vibes as well.

 

[HoonDing]

Memento could have used some Inception.

[Purkake]

This is kind of funny. Edited August 3, 2010 by Purkake

[Nightshape]

This is kind of funny.

 

Loll.

[Orogun01]

This is kind of funny.

Once they put it like that it is kind of confusing.

[Thorton_AP]

The nitpick is that the van is being chased in layer 1 & in layer 2, they can hear/see this sometimes (the shaking of coffee in a cup & booming noises for instance). The inconsistency is how the shaking of coffee in the cup doesn't take a lot longer to occur than it might in layer 1. Where's the time dilation, then? Is it just supposed to be that the cup in layer 2 doesn't shake until minutes after it happens in layer 1? Also, if time slows down in deeper layers, why does "limbo" seem to age you so rapidly? Wouldn't it slow down instead? I know it's just a movie, but it felt inconsistent within the frame of the movie. Did anyone notice/hear something we didn't that would explain that?

 

Limbo doesn't age you rapidly. Time proceeds faster as you go down deeper. If you remember, a lot of events happen and the movie will cut back out and the truck has moved only a couple feet.

[Purkake]

Altered Carbon had similar time dilated virtual realities...

[LadyCrimson]

That college humor video was hysterical.

 

Limbo doesn't age you rapidly. Time proceeds faster as you go down deeper. If you remember, a lot of events happen and the movie will cut back out and the truck has moved only a couple feet.

Yes, I remember Leo talking about how he & his wife had 'lived a lifetime' in a few minutes or an hour or whatever whilst they lay on the carpet dreaming. But if time proceeds faster as you go deeper, why does it slow down within the deeper layers to allow for the delayed & and very lengthy) reaction of anti-gravity blah blah blah.

[Rosbjerg]

and why doesn't your brain burn out immediately from "handling" (and semi-perceiving) 4 different layers of reality.. Not to mention your mind having to store 50 years worth of memories in a few hours..

[Thorton_AP]

Yes, I remember Leo talking about how he & his wife had 'lived a lifetime' in a few minutes or an hour or whatever whilst they lay on the carpet dreaming. But if time proceeds faster as you go deeper, why does it slow down within the deeper layers to allow for the delayed & and very lengthy) reaction of anti-gravity blah blah blah.

 

If it takes the van 2 seconds to tip and fall into freefall, (I don't remember the formula specifically) that event will get stretched out throughout many more seconds (minutes in the movie).

 

 

Try to imagine a tick being time progressing.

 

Base Time:		*	 *	 *	 *	 *	 *	 *	 *	 *	 * 
Deep Time:		*  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *  *

Van falls here:  |		|

 

More "ticks" happen in a deeper sleep. Since we still perceive the time to happen at the same rate, it takes more ticks for it to happen so something from the higher level gets stretched out.

[Purkake]

Just because it's in every other Inception thread:

 

[Orogun01]

and why doesn't your brain burn out immediately from "handling" (and semi-perceiving) 4 different layers of reality.. Not to mention your mind having to store 50 years worth of memories in a few hours..

Probably because it doesn't get processed by the cognitive brain immediately, just like having a long dream with sequences that go missing when you try to recall them.

Edited August 3, 2010 by Orogun01

[Rosbjerg]

That's when you wake up.. Cobb and Mal clearly had full mental and cognitive abilities in their 50 years of dream time - meaning that their brain had to work super fast while they were dreaming and remember the events in the few hours it took. Maybe they couldn't remember it afterwards, but that's beside the point.