Can my beginner's party take on Raedric?

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

I posted about my situation in the Stories forum, and was invited to ask for advise here.

I have now fought this battle with Raedric four times, but I can't win it. The best I got until now was one character (Fara) fighting the last 3 enemies and losing.

 

The tactics I tried a few times was form a line on the stairs with three melee fighters, put traps in front.

 

I have developed my characters (4th level) naively, just taking what seemed fun, because I don't know the optimisation techniques yet.

 

 

Loor has a bear with two upgrades for fighting harder. Bear stands in the front row.

He himself starts in the back dealing special damage with his bow.

 

 

Aloth stands in the second row, generally dealing damage with his spells.

 

 

Edér stands in the centre front, as a Defender, engaging 3 enemies.

 

 

Durance stands in the middle on the second row, healing when necessary, dealing damage otherwise.

 

 

Kana stands in the frontline.

 

 

Fara begins shooting, then joins the melee.

 

Everybody drinks a potion at start.

 

Bear and Kana fall a bit too early in the fight, Edér holds out for a long time, Kana can plug one hole, but the second hole exposes Aloth and Durance. Maybe I should move Loor closer to the line to join melee in the second hole, to protect my two casters longer.

 

Or should I approach this fight completely differently?

 

This is the savegame with the party in the throne room

http://springelkamp.nl/usr/files/games/PoE/a71e75a8a12a458fba55e2423bba8188%209376488%20RaedricsKeep.savegame

There all the details of my characters can be viewed.

[Ben No.3]

Don't use durance only for healing... his other spells are far to valuable. The lvl2 spell consengrated ground will cover you for healing. I'd rather focus on buffs/debuffs. I'm sadly incapable to download the savegame right now...  What chants does kana have? What class is fara? Stat of your two customs? What spells do you use most with aloth? 

 

As a rule over the thumb, it is always better to weaken the enemy first if you can not simply overpower him. So maybe for the order of spells go with something like Buff allies->Debuff enemies->damage enemy.

 

And finally, don't be frustrated... Lvl 4 is quite early to tackle raedric.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Ben No.3

[Boeroer]

First of all, drink a lot of ale. Then go to the small room with the stairs in the left of the throne room or into the bed chamber at the right. Use the door as chokepoint so that only Edér has to tank with weapon and shield. Use Kana with his Movement+ chant to pull the enemies to that chokepoint and retreat behind Edér. Edér closes the gap in the doorway.

 

Edér: Once enemies are blinded (see Aloth's Chillfog) use scrolls of Fan of Flames like there's no tomorrow. Then tank & spank, maybe summon pets from figurines or drink a defensive potion. Give him back his armor for this fight. Use his Knockdowns wisely. Don't move! Don't go into the Chillfogs!

 

Aloth: 3 Chillfogs on top of each other in front of Edèr, then Eldrtich Aim, then Combusting Wounds(!). Then 2 times Arcane Assault, then fire from the backrow (mages and priest). I hope you have Blast.

 

Durance: Blessing, Consecrated Ground, Iconic Projection if Edér gets wobbly knees - target it so that is passed through the doorway and hits as many foes as possible, too. If you have Inspiring Radiance (which I strongly recommend), cast this at the beginning, too. Its 10 ACC bonus stacks with everything. Don't use it for healing, use it for buffing ACC. Then fire from the backline (mages and priests). If Edér is about to collapse for the second time (after the first time he will get revived because of his armor), cast Withdraw on him! Enemies can't get past him because he still blocks the doorway, but they can't hurt him either because he's withdrawn. He will heal while he blocks the way. Perfect! But watch out: the enemy will desperatley try to hit you backline with ranged attacks and spells if possible.

 

Kana: fire from the back row at mages or priests (NOT paladins or whatever), sing "Come Sweet Winds" only. Its damage stacks. Summon Phantom asap! It's superstrong at those levels. Attack mages and priests with it. Repeat. If Edér and later pet fall, move in the gap and tank with weapon & shield.

 

Loor & Pet: don't engange with the pet first. If there's room besides Edér in the doorway - or somebody slips through: engage. If not, then wait as backup should Edér fall. If the pet engages, fire at the same target with Loor. Else Loor shoots mages and priests like the rest.

 

What class is Fara? Rogue? She has really bad endurance. You should keep her in the backrow and use her arbalest. If she's a rogue then her shots will do great damage when enemies are blinded from Chillfog.

 

Concentrate your backline fire on one enemy until he's down. Then target the next. Your priority targets are mages and priests - mages first if you can reach them. Try to attack those who are blind or otherwise debuffed. 

 

Should go pretty smooth then.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah, if you use the door even a 3 char party can do this fight on level 4.

You could also use wizards double on Eder, once the enemy wizards are out of spells, which happens pretty quickly in this fight.

If you're still having trouble after following Boroers very detailed post, if you wish I could dl your savegame and make a video for you on a possible way to do the fight.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Raven Darkholme

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

Thanks for the very extensive advice.

 

First of all, drink a lot of ale.

 
I looked up Ale. So that is your generel opinion of food?

 

 

Use the door as chokepoint

Use Kana with his Movement+ chant

 

Ah, I didn't think of luring the whole enemy party that far away.

And I had disregarded those +Movement effects until now, but here I see a very useful pattern. (I could use other +Movement effects instead of Kana's chant just the same, but Kana's is 'free'?)

 

 

Edér: Once enemies are blinded (see Aloth's Chillfog) use scrolls of Fan of Flames like there's no tomorrow.

 

Unfortunately Edér's Lore is only 1. Something to improve for the next level I presume.

He uses Gaun's Share and Larder Door (the only good big shield I have).

I don't think the secondary weapon slot is too important at the moment, he probably won't get a shot before melee begins, with the last minute manoeuvring ito place?

 

 

Aloth: 3 Chillfogs on top of each other in front of Edèr, then Eldrtich Aim, then Combusting Wounds(!). Then 2 times Arcane Assault, then fire from the backrow (mages and priest). I hope you have Blast.

 

Aloth doesn't know Eldrtich Aim, nor Combusting Wounds. I have used Necrotic lance a lot. And he has Aspirant's Mark. I guess I will add this to the Chillfogs before using the offensive spells?

 

Durance: Blessing, Consecrated Ground, Iconic Projection

 

How does Consecrated Ground work? Does it give the extra endurance multiple times over time? When does it give them the extra endurance?

I haven't changed his clothing or weapons.

 

 

If you have Inspiring Radiance (which I strongly recommend)

 

He doesn't have it. Holy Radiance itself doesn't seem too usefull in this fight, but it is just a little healing for everyone later in the fight I guess.

 

 

Kana: fire from the back row at mages or priests (NOT paladins or whatever), sing "Come Sweet Winds" only.

 

Does Blessed Was Wendgridh also stack with itself, or should I combine it with another chant for the initial action?

 

I am considering using the Arquebus for the combat initiating shot, then switching to Fine Arbalest for the support fire from behind, then, when he has to take the front line a Fine Sword with Fine Small Shield. I have given him Fine Brigandine, because he may have to step into the melee.

 

 

What class is Fara?

 

She is a Cypher. I hired her at the Inn, for the expedition to Raedric. I thought - because of the information I got from Kolsc - that I had to go through the sewers (but now I see in the journal that an alternative route is mentioned) so I wanted a high Mechanics character for traps and locks. I had ventured with a 5 member party until then. I considered combat power as secondary, but I wanted to try out the Cipher, as I had no idea what that would be like.

 

So now she will operate from behind (but she has useful Powers for that position). I have given her a Fine Arbalest. For her Focus I understand she must do damage. Is that Arbalest a good weapon for that purpose? I have put her into just a Fine Robe now, because she will operate from behind, just like Loor. Only Edér and Kana now have strong armour (I gave Edér back his own Armour, before I thought I should use the highest protection for the frontline).

[Raven Darkholme]

As to Kana I would sing in the following order: Wengridh first, then Comrades, then come sweet winds.

That way you get + 10 to all defenses but deflection, and the movement speed bonus.

Your winds will then do the raw damage.

You can also go  melee with Kana but I would recommend to keep him in range at low level, especially when you use a chokepoint soft winds is an awesome damage source and you don't need to be close for it to hit.

 

As to your cipher:

Focus your ranged attacks on the softer targets for easier focus gain and then charm the plate armor enemies.

[Ben No.3]

Does your cipher have whispers of treason? It is a very strong spell... apply it to one of the stronger enemies. as he will then fight his friends, but weakened (this is what is meant by charmed, and it is the difference to dominated: dominated enemies fight for you with the same stats). This is a great situation: The weakened strong enemy kills other enemies, while the other enemies have a higher chance of inflicting some nice damage (because he is weakened) to him.

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

Following Boeroer's instructions, this fight was easy (well, I do play on Normal)

 

Not a scratch for anybody, except the bear, who took some damage, but was very useful to attack those who moved into the gap between the doorpost and Edér.

 

I also scattered a lot of traps on the approach. Unfortunately Iconic Projection could not pass through the doorway, but Durance could used some Divine Mark. Kana's skeletons attacked the Archmage, couldn't damage him, but that distracted a lot of fighters who moved back to protect their Mage, and that helped cleaning up the front. The Mage was shortly after slain by a barrage of remote attacks.

 

I learned a lot, thanks to all your help.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Lotti Fuehrscheim

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

Does your cipher have whispers of treason? It is a very strong spell... apply it to one of the stronger enemies. as he will then fight his friends, but weakened (this is what is meant by charmed, and it is the difference to dominated: dominated enemies fight for you with the same stats). This is a great situation: The weakened strong enemy kills other enemies, while the other enemies have a higher chance of inflicting some nice damage (because he is weakened) to him.

 

Yes, I have used this in previous, easier fights. In this fight I only used the 2nd level powers, to attack the Archmage, after the Priest had been destroyed early.

[Ben No.3]

Use whispers... It is one of the best spells.... even at higher levels: at low levels, it is good because you gain an ally, at high levels it is good because it becomes very spammable.

[Raven Darkholme]

Yeah, the cipher can do a lot of damage to the mages just with range, so it is smarter to charm the armored guys who aren't as easily damaged via physical means.

Anyway awesome that you could do the fight so easily.

[Boeroer]

Very glad I could help. If you know all the tricks this game becomes pretty easy with a full party. But it's a lot of info to be digested. The hardest part is Act I. And I guess you just managed to beat the hardest encounter in Act I.

[JerekKruger]

... Larder Door (the only good big shield I have).

 

Rather counterintuitively, the Larder Door is actually worse the a normal, unenchanted large shield. They both provide the same protection, but using the Larder Door will reduce Eder's damage output.

[Boeroer]

Isn't it already "fine" when you get it?

[Jojobobo]

No it is not, you fool, you foolish fool!

 

But it is very easy to enchant to fine...

Edited November 6, 2016 by Jojobobo

[Boeroer]

Huh?

 

edit: ah... Google helped me.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Boeroer

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

I didn't have a large shield. Only found it after the battle. Don't know if it was even available at the smith in the village, and I missed the one in the keep until after the battle because it was it a place that I had sneaked. Could have collected it before the battle, but in the end it wasn't decisive. But now Edér is equipped with a fine large shield, and we are rooting out some vermin in the Endless Paths.

[Elthalas]

A-ha!

So the archway-chockpoint its the key.
I was going to start a topic asking about defeating Raedric on Hard with my party of four 4th level characters (Me Paladin Off-tank/Eder tank/Aloth/Durance), because I was having difficulties (Eder could sustain the damage, but eventually he runned out of health), but with the chokepoint the damage to Eder is much more under control, and the other characters are a lot safer. With Eder resisting at the door, my paladin blowing the brains out of the mages with her arbalest, Aloth spiking the damage to finish the work and Durance healing and making people sturdy, it was pretty smooth.
I have to say that the Paladins of Berath are REALLY annoying with their Lay on hands, because they heal people almost to full health; you have to pile a lot of damage fast enough in the mages and priest so they die outright.


Thank you for the tips!


PD. Fun fact: Berath is the god of doorways.

Edited November 12, 2016 by Elthalas

[JerekKruger]

So the archway-chockpoint its the key.

 

It's the easiest way to win the fight, but it is by no means required. I prefer not to use it myself. I initially agree to Raedric's demand to confront Kolsc, then I rearrange my party around his dais to make it easier to take down the mages and priests whilst giving some cover to my own squishies, then I talk to him again and attack and run the fight as a fairly straight up fight.

 

I don't know exactly what level I am when I do this, but I first do every quest in Act I and make sure to pick up Sagani, so something like level 4 or maybe 5. I also have a fairly good grasp of combat mechanics so I know which spells to use in the fight. Given all this, I can usually win the fight without any of my party going down (apart from perhaps Ituumak, but his job is to go down).

[Elthalas]

Haha poor Ituumak; but that's his job for sure.

Nah, I usually don't have a problem if I take another companion; with Kana Rua I have enough damage (that extra arquebous) and support to aproach the fight straigh up. But I wanted to win that with only the companions I had at that moment (it was a little strange the other way: wait a minute, Raedric; I've already kill your animancer and free your prisioners, but I'm thinking you're too much of a badass, so I'm going to go for I few days, pick some help and then use the same secret entrances I've already use so I can assassinate you better), and they are too few so you're usually overwhelmed - Raedric's have double your men, and Eder can resist a lot but maybe 4 greatsword + spells bettering at him at once from every angle it's too much.

As I say, for me the big problem was that I couldn't put enough damage together to take out my enemies before the paladins healed them - but if your mage and cleric are safe and the foes are piled up at the door, it's easier.

[JerekKruger]

Ah that makes sense. Yeah I think that the Raedric fight was meant to be done at the end of act I or even early in act II, so doing it earlier requires a cleverer strategy than a straight up fight.

[Blades of Vanatar]

I prefer to line up at the top of the steps in a five person front line. Wiz in the back dropping Chill Fogs and Combustings wounds. Of course this requires a 6 man team. The doorway is obviously easier but way less enjoyable. I like to call him out from the get go and then stomp him. Priest 2nd level paralyze Spell is also a big help. As are FoF scrolls.

[JerekKruger]

I prefer to line up at the top of the steps in a five person front line. Wiz in the back dropping Chill Fogs and Combustings wounds. Of course this requires a 6 man team. The doorway is obviously easier but way less enjoyable. I like to call him out from the get go and then stomp him. Priest 2nd level paralyze Spell is also a big help. As are FoF scrolls.

 

If you call him out straight away you can't pre-position your party I believe. I suppose you can immediately reorganise yourself at the start of the fight though.

[Blades of Vanatar]

Just walk to the top of the stairs and have any party member, including a pet!, move closer and engage him in conversation. Then tell him he sucks and your there to put an end to his rule. Combat will commence. If you use a non-pet to do this just run back to your frontline. I would disable AI with that character otherwise he will stop to fight and will be swarmed. Or do it with a tank.....but I prefer to just get back to my frontline so I can start the magical AoE onslaught. I like to tackle this at level 4 if I have a priest and wizard.

[Lotti Fuehrscheim]

Pretend to join Raedric after talking to him, to move away freely, than attack when you are positioned?