Elric Galad

I've been thinking for a long time that Bleak Walkers... ahem... weren't the best subclass. They have a Tier 1 affliction, which is neat, but can be somehow negated (at least you can pick a helm that grants +10 Acc to all affliction inflicting attacks, or the Acid talent via multiclassing). But 12% lash ? Seriously, this is slightly too low. Not even 15%, I would qualify this value as a bit mean from the devs The effect is nice to optimize damages, but compared to what White Flames grants, it seems a bit underwhelming. I know Darcozzi could be seen as weaker, but putting some fire shield a bit everywhere is going to have a better effect on the long run. EDIT : considering a bit of additional scaling to Darcozzi fire shield.

I think monk it a bit above the rest (and high above the melee) when it comes to supporting another class through multiiclass. That being said, I don't find tons of synergy with chanter. Intellect is neat, action speed is low priority for chanter (but will help monk's own part) and the great monk summons... still won't beat chanter's. Ancestor's Memory will happily benefit to other party member, I guess. Zeal is not an excellent ressources, but primarly due to excessive cost of the abilities. There are some powerful stuff to do if you have near infinite zeal. SC Paladin can put Nimble on the whole party (no action time, and I don't think another class can do that) or heal everyone by 150hp. Or just spam White Flames for respectable attack damages while healing everyone around. I was under the impression that your position was set. Maybe I'm reading too fast. This is not my mother tongue, and I don't have tons of available time these days... General consensus (at least on this forum) is generaly trsutworthy, which does not mean it has to be followed blindly

Cipher is a mediocre support who has one important niche : avoid ressource depletion. And a secondary niche : being a mediocre healer, but with infinite ressource and at the cost of 1 ability point. It clarifies the reaonsing, not the conclusion Because you can still complete it with another subclass. Herald for example, still beat every combination above in the persisting tanking + support department. Basically you need a shield, stoic steel, some source of non stackable AR and that's about it. Maybe you invested too much in Paladin defense to begin with. Nobody build around healing (except when I cast Nature's Balm at the beginning of combat, but that's because it is absurdly optimal at this point and last a bit) But are you going to pretend healing never happens ? In a party of 5, having a character using 1 healing from times to times isn't going to brutally kills your DPS. Especially if you build around DoT. Also White Flames are exceptionnal at combining attack and healing. Most well rounded Paladin subclass IMHO. Nope, I don't think so. Neither Warcaller not Cantor are not as good support. They almost have no spike heals (the Chanter double ray of light is mediocre at best). Double source of party-wide constant healing + Mercy and Kindness will prevent any further heal but you will still have it if needed. Because your topic is literally called "Advice needed" ? Because you asked for "peer reviews" ? If a widespread opinion does not make you hesitant about your conclusions, why are you here to discuss ?

Well, I don't care that much whether Wizard belongs to "Game Breaking" or "Game Breaking but a bit less" category. Both are acceptable for a tier list that has to simplify a bit the considerations. At the moment, I'm more concerned about avoiding Paladins to be put on the bottom tier

Okay, so basically you tend to rank lower the classes that provides a combination of roles. Hence the druid ranking (and you probably ended up rising it by one tier because it is the best healer, even if you don't personally rank healing as important). Paladin being inferior to wiz and fighter for tanking is debattable. Paladin is the one that doesn't rely on self-buff, which I still believe to be important, especially vs dispells. Stoic Steel is rarely mentionned, but I believe it to be the most broken paladin feature. I'm pretty sure Paladins top AR tanking by virtue of Stoic Steel (something like +3 stackable AR is EXTREMELY rare, I'm not even sure that any class gets more than +1 stackable AR), with possibly some help from Goldpact subclass. Note that this one doesn't even rely on multiclassing. NOTES : Stoic Steel can be charged by standing still 18s before battle and isn't cancelled by "jump" abilities such as Escape and Leap. For support, I won't argue Paladin beat Priest or Chanter, the point is that LoH is really convenient for Single Target healing. And freaking instant Rez can save the day more than once. Also Combination of roles being relevant or not also depends a lot on action economy and build cost, ressource economy. Being a damage dealer and healer is "nice to have" if you have to choose one for each action / ressource spent. But it is much more valuable if the secondary role cost few ability points, no ressource and no cast time. That's why I think Paladins are nice. Their tanking and aura cost nothing and adds up in the background to anything the build can offer. Low action economy also means that they can wear the biggest armors and still be efficient, which synergizes well with the previously mentionned AR tanking. That's why, for example, the Herald build is so powerful. It just stacks everything in the background and can do most of its tricks forever. (Note that I still count Chanter on a higher tier due to the sheer brokenness of Ancient Weapons and Mercy and Kindness aura). I tend to be a bit dubious when people absolutely want specialists and don't consider 2 sides can actually stack up. And once again, I've rarely read people describing Paladins as weak.

Driving Roar is arguably the best ability for SC Barbarian. It really does a crapload of damages, pushing and interrupting and can be spammed. Dazzing Shout isn't bad though.

Maybe the little difference is that Wiz can only cheat about itself while priest can cheat the whole party. And Ancestor's Memory does not need a particular combo to be broken. It can save your life in any prolonged fight. Just the amount of utility it has in this context in crazy. There is even a dedicated component of my mod (Potion of Enlightenment) that is dedicated to provide alternative to this particular ability. That's why out of the 3, Wiz is probably the least abusable. It stands somewhere between Overloaded and Game Breaking tier.

Oh, I don't think Druid vs Fighter has to be discussed again (even if once more, I have concern with Unbending reliance on ressource pool which is a concern in some fights... unless playng tactician of course. Tactician is not only a great multiclass but also fix the main weakness of the main fighter asset STOP ) Paladin in the bottom tier, I have issues about this one cause I haven't much discussed. Paladin has great tanking. Inferior to fighter, but totally independant from ressource pool and starting at lvl1 (Stoic Steel is almost broken good). Paladin is a good healer, arguably above Priest cause LoH and instant resurrection are really convenient. Auras are less varied but in the same league as Chanter. Paladin main issue is that the active ability above tier 1 are meh, so I won't see it above Bread n Butter. But it's definitely a great multiclass. Herald is above the greatest "classic" multiclass. And it does most of its tanking and support without even requiring any action and limited ressources. Half a slot for tanking + healing + support isn't niche IMHO. I have never read Paladin seriously qualified as bottom tier class. Note that I don't have that much time right now to get involved in some video cause I'm about to house move .

Not 100% sure, but what I would think more acceptable (close enough for yours): Game Breaking: Cipher, Priest Overloaded: Wizard, Chanter, Monk Bread-n-Butter: Druid, Rogue, Fighter (+1 tier for Tactician if you realy want it higher, or just quote Tactician as a reason to put it higher ), Paladin (when did you rank them so low ?) Niche: Ranger, Barbarian

Healing isn't a niche composition strategy. You say you don't need it, but because you rely on other function (tanking) that also requires party slot. I still believe that "downgrading a wiz into a druid" is a way cheaper cost than having a tanking slot. You should somehow take into account that the community AFAIK does not have a low opinion about druid. That's different from the other "low tier classes".

I don't think so because it isn't even a direct combo. It requires a constant source of damaging attack which isn't so obvious to get. Balance Polishing Mod put Toughened Fury to 10% Discipline on damaged, and it not even that reliable without relying on an external source of multiple tick. Need discipline ? Stand in a "friendly" firewall. A way better source of Brilliant is Tactician subclass. This subclass IS a tier above the other. Indeed. That being said MC ranger are mostly fine, and Ghostheart extremely easy to use. You really start feeling the limit of the class only when going single class. It is not untrue, but once again, Druid healing isn't even "expensive" to use. You don't need it ? Then use DoT instead. Druid has some of the best DoT, if not the best. You don't even need other stats. It is not like you need to dedicate a character to it. Also Nature's Balm is an extremely good opener. 0.5 cast, fast recovery that can be negated by stealth. Short AoE ? Not a problem if you cast it before your party even move. Call to the Primordial is arguably the best non-chanter summon spell of the game. You have like 75% chance of summoning a ooze that can cast Plague of Insects itself, and even the worse ones are still about 300hp each. Wizard outperform Druids for CC, damages are quite similar (Intend to prefer druid for their raw DoT options/Maelstrom - Penetration of offensive spells is often lacking), and Druid outperform their non-existing healing. Wizard can be unbelievably tanky even without cheesing. Wizard is cheater tier with Cipher and Priest due to Wall of Draining though. Without this cheese, Wiz and Druid are similar tier.

Yes. Specific tier is justified i this case. Ancestor's Memory is a bit less necessary to the combo since you have other source of Brilliant. But it's quite broken on its own if you are willing to use it in combination with a SC druid, priest, wiz... No offense, for a long time even expert players didn't know how unbending exactly worked because the mechanism is just so obscure. AFAIK I think my post is the only source of clear description about it. There are lots of complicated stuff in the game that are much more documentedvand well known. That is really an exception. And to be honnest, it's hard to initially figure how much documented is a new poster As a source of crowd control, it's nice. Disengagement attacks are unreliable to obtain and not very convenient to use. You might know that I 'm the author of Balance Polishing Mod. Basically I had to tweak up most engagement related abilities because of this reason. Yes, only offer Unbending is hyperbolic. I was speaking about game changing stuff. Fighter get plenty of additional goodies. Many classes get something comparable. From lightning strike, frenzy to deleterious alacrity of motion, there are other great ressource costing self buffs. Don't get me wrong, it's great, you can build around (crit fishing), but it's not that unique. Confident aim is meh and stacks poorly with Aware inspiration. Not used it too much. The issue is that Ranger accuracy is mostly single target. That's why Ranger/Cipher is so great while other Ranger/Caster not so. Fighter provide instant accuracy usable with AoE (but less stacking) Again, not so bad, but not THAT great. The point is that Druid can carry all the healing duties for a whole party, and do it better that any other class. The number of total healing are just crazy. Priest is a meh healer in comparison. Druid DoT are also super great, even at low level. Loading Druid with Might and Intellect provide a character that is both offensive and defensive. I've never found them lacking. Finally, Maelstorm is the best offensive spell of the game. (I've had a full thread about it before coming to this conclusion). It can wipe full encounters. It is just a head above Wiz tier 9 (better Penetration does help a lot) .

To be honnest, the game is actually super balanced when you leave out the issue that most martial are meh when going single class. IF you don't use pure chesse (BDD + SoT + some source of Brilliant), I would say that most classes are actually quite balanced. You need MC / Distinction to really spot deeper differences. I would put most classes in a rather similar Tier bar Barbarian, Fighter and Ranger (and even them are quite okay, the margin is very thin). Barbarian just doesn't bring anything unique enough, except the super spammable Tier 9 shouts. Fighter has Unbending... and that's about it (if you are curious why you feel invincible with it, check the ACTUAL effect [MECHANICS] Various Testing - Page 2 - Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!) - Obsidian Forum Community) . The thing is Unbending + Engagement slots is nice, but Summons + Healing is the most well rouded defensive strategy in PoE2 in my opinion. It tends to be an overkill, and sometimes won't prevent your buddies from dying, which will make victory much harder to achieve. Clear Out could have been the cheapest AoE weapon attack, but the fact it requires Double Hit vs Fortitude to hit anything in its AoE is a big hindrance (ACTUAL effect if you ever wondered why Clear always feel worse than it appears on paper clear out hits twice with 2h weapons? - Pillars of Eternity II: Deadfire Characters Builds, Strategies & the Unity Engine (Spoiler Warning!) - Obsidian Forum Community That being said Tactician subclass is enough to make fighter super good. Ranger is widely accepted as the weakest class. Now that the pet is more managable that people gives credit to BUT its raw power is comparable to 1 out of 3 Chanter summoned weapons. Ranger has a wide variety of abilities (Tranquilizing Shot is the bane of Auranic, shut any obelisk for a modest 1 bond), but nothing is unique enough to go for it. Single Class has an enormous power pool issue since every ability is overcosted and they have no super good Tier 8-9 passive. Fighter and Ranger can provide deadly accuracy to multiclass build, there's still plenty of effects to abuse.

Nope. Ancestor's Memory isn't self target. (Anyway, I was speaking about Anscestor's Memory helping recast Unbending, so the real answer is Psyblade doesn't work. Chanter class needs no help to get infinite ressource.)

+1 ressource point per 6s for martial classes (+1 wound/mortification for monk), +1 phrase per 6s fbenefipr chanter, + 10 focus per 6s for cipher as in Vanilla. Only difference is that first tick happens at 3s, not immediately (but ancient memory duration has been increased by 3s) Which makes Cipher benefitting the least. Note that it has been left this way intentionnally, to mitigate the risk of having a couple of Cipher casting Ancestor Memory infinitely at each other.