Templar (Paladin + Priest) or single Pally/Priest with updated high levels?

[PneumaticFire]

Great feedback as usual. Thanks.

 

I see the strengths of other Priest subs, but for role playing reasons want to stick to Priest of Eothas and if multiclassing, one that fits my character roleplay wise. So either Kind Wayfarer/Shieldbearer, or monk.

Possibly Cipher

 

1). If single Eothas how would you build?

 

2). If Priest of Eothas/Monk how would you build?

 

3). Out of the above (or maybe Cipher), which would you then choose and why?

 

 

[Ensign]

Single class Eothas is pretty simple, you take the good spells and a bunch of passives. Restore, Dire Blessing, Devotions of the Faithful, Barring Death's Door, Salvation of Time, Storm of Holy Fire. Those plus the free spells on level up are 95% of what you'll need. I think Holy Meditation is good and maybe you'll cast Shining Beacon now and again - and all of the PL8 stuff is good except Crowns. But for the most part take all the passives.

 

Monk + Priest I would do the scepter/helwalker thing. Self damage from scepters to build wounds, which give might and int which buff your spells. Cast spells as above.

 

Priest / Cipher is just so bad. No way I can suggest that.

 

I'd single priest from the choices listed.

[PneumaticFire]

Single class Eothas is pretty simple, you take the good spells and a bunch of passives. Restore, Dire Blessing, Devotions of the Faithful, Barring Death's Door, Salvation of Time, Storm of Holy Fire. Those plus the free spells on level up are 95% of what you'll need. I think Holy Meditation is good and maybe you'll cast Shining Beacon now and again - and all of the PL8 stuff is good except Crowns. But for the most part take all the passives.

 

Monk + Priest I would do the scepter/helwalker thing. Self damage from scepters to build wounds, which give might and int which buff your spells. Cast spells as above.

 

Priest / Cipher is just so bad. No way I can suggest that.

 

I'd single priest from the choices listed.

Awesome. How about stat distribution and what armour type would you go with?

[Frog Man]

Dump resolve. Con to 8 or 10. Max PER and INT. Rest in dex. Might at 10 or so is fine. Stats don’t make that big a difference.

 

Folks have different philosophies with armor. I like everyone in mail or heavier. Enemy AI likes to gang up on squishies. You cast a little slower but it’s worth it.

[PneumaticFire]

Dump resolve. Con to 8 or 10. Max PER and INT. Rest in dex. Might at 10 or so is fine. Stats don’t make that big a difference.

 

Folks have different philosophies with armor. I like everyone in mail or heavier. Enemy AI likes to gang up on squishies. You cast a little slower but it’s worth it.

Oohh good point. However I can't bare to have a low resolve (dialogue checks/role-play. I want this as high as reasonably possible to meet most without sacrificing the practicality of this build.

[Ensign]

Stats don't make that big of a difference. I would want high INT for better buff AoEs and durations but the rest is fungible. No point in maxing RES but not dumping it isn't some huge handicap. Moderate CON, pick MGT, DEX, PER to taste.

 

Early game medium armor is a sweet spot of effectiveness and is reasonably common. Can move to light with the added defenses of a few levels. Armor choice is going to depend a lot on the uniques and how you want to distribute them to your party.

[Yosharian]

Stats don't make that big of a difference. I would want high INT for better buff AoEs and durations but the rest is fungible. No point in maxing RES but not dumping it isn't some huge handicap. Moderate CON, pick MGT, DEX, PER to taste.

 

Early game medium armor is a sweet spot of effectiveness and is reasonably common. Can move to light with the added defenses of a few levels. Armor choice is going to depend a lot on the uniques and how you want to distribute them to your party.

 

Resolve is an utterly useless attribute on anyone that isn't a hardcore tank, and even then a lot of tanks can still get more benefit out of other attributes.  It's absolute trash, and should be dumped to minimum.

[Yosharian]

 

Dump resolve. Con to 8 or 10. Max PER and INT. Rest in dex. Might at 10 or so is fine. Stats don’t make that big a difference.

 

Folks have different philosophies with armor. I like everyone in mail or heavier. Enemy AI likes to gang up on squishies. You cast a little slower but it’s worth it.

Oohh good point. However I can't bare to have a low resolve (dialogue checks/role-play. I want this as high as reasonably possible to meet most without sacrificing the practicality of this build.

 

 

Edit: I was wrong, Resolve is actually checked quite a lot in dialogues.  I still think it's a bad attribute to max, but there you go.  In my defense, early on before Deadfire's release it was reported that Resolve wouldn't be used at all for dialogues, and that's what I was (wrongly) remembering.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Yosharian

[heldred]

Just be a Wizard/Paladin or a Fighter/Paladin... it does everything better, except healing, which can be done as efficiently with scrolls/potions.

 

My problem with the Priest in POE2 is all of the spells take forever on recovery (or maybe it is me).   I just feel like my wizards can buff up 6+ spells to god status, while the priest is still recovering from its first spell.  Even nuking the wizard "feels" more fluid over the priest.   Add in the fact that you don't have to buy a single spell as a wizard and it is clearly superior to the priest...  Oh yeah, I could make a case for a Druid being a better healers, which makes the Priest an odd choice.

 

Yeah, come to think of it, the devs really didn't show any love for the priest in POE2 (to be fair, they were gods in POE1).  After hundreds of hours of play time, they really should have a patch that adjusts the priest's cast times and includes 2 free spells for each level... then it might be close to wizard.

[PneumaticFire]

 

 

Dump resolve. Con to 8 or 10. Max PER and INT. Rest in dex. Might at 10 or so is fine. Stats don’t make that big a difference.

 

Folks have different philosophies with armor. I like everyone in mail or heavier. Enemy AI likes to gang up on squishies. You cast a little slower but it’s worth it.

Oohh good point. However I can't bare to have a low resolve (dialogue checks/role-play. I want this as high as reasonably possible to meet most without sacrificing the practicality of this build.

 

 

Resolve does practically nothing for your character.  It does not affect dialogue checks, and the Deflection penalty will have minimal impact.

 

Having a high resolve effectively gives your character -10 to -15 attribute points for practically no gameplay effect.

 

If you want to do that for 'role-play', go ahead (I actually sympathise, believe it or not), but don't be under any illusions as to what you're doing - you're throwing away attribute points so you can look at a nice number on your stat sheet.

 

 

My knowledge on game mechanics is a little rusty. I've literally played no Deadfire since early release.

 

Doesn't resolve boost stat checks for skills such as diplomacy?  Or are there dialogue options only unlockable with a particular attribute?

 

I saw this on a website: (https://wiki.fireundubh.com/deadfire/dialogue-options)

 

 

 

 

Just be a Wizard/Paladin or a Fighter/Paladin... it does everything better, except healing, which can be done as efficiently with scrolls/potions.

 

My problem with the Priest in POE2 is all of the spells take forever on recovery (or maybe it is me).   I just feel like my wizards can buff up 6+ spells to god status, while the priest is still recovering from its first spell.  Even nuking the wizard "feels" more fluid over the priest.   Add in the fact that you don't have to buy a single spell as a wizard and it is clearly superior to the priest...  Oh yeah, I could make a case for a Druid being a better healers, which makes the Priest an odd choice.

 

Yeah, come to think of it, the devs really didn't show any love for the priest in POE2 (to be fair, they were gods in POE1).  After hundreds of hours of play time, they really should have a patch that adjusts the priest's cast times and includes 2 free spells for each level... then it might be close to wizard.

 

That's a shame, as I heard this early on and was hoping by patch 4.0 they would have addressed this appropriately.

 

They're very tempting options, particularly as in D&D historically I lean towards either Wizard or Paladins in playthroughs. 

However roleplay wise I'm keen on playing a priest who is chasing down his God for answers. I'm hoping there will be some reactivity to me being a priest of Eothas in regards to Eothas' actions as well, even if minor.  (if answering this please no spoilers on specifics, keep it general).

 

I also played as a Priest of Eothas on my second PoE1 playthrough which I would like to continue.

Edited January 8, 2019 by PneumaticFire

[Yosharian]

 

 

 

Dump resolve. Con to 8 or 10. Max PER and INT. Rest in dex. Might at 10 or so is fine. Stats don’t make that big a difference.

 

Folks have different philosophies with armor. I like everyone in mail or heavier. Enemy AI likes to gang up on squishies. You cast a little slower but it’s worth it.

Oohh good point. However I can't bare to have a low resolve (dialogue checks/role-play. I want this as high as reasonably possible to meet most without sacrificing the practicality of this build.

 

 

Resolve does practically nothing for your character.  It does not affect dialogue checks, and the Deflection penalty will have minimal impact.

 

Having a high resolve effectively gives your character -10 to -15 attribute points for practically no gameplay effect.

 

If you want to do that for 'role-play', go ahead (I actually sympathise, believe it or not), but don't be under any illusions as to what you're doing - you're throwing away attribute points so you can look at a nice number on your stat sheet.

 

 

My knowledge on game mechanics is a little rusty. I've literally played no Deadfire since early release.

 

Doesn't resolve boost stat checks for skills such as diplomacy?  Or are there dialogue options only unlockable with a particular attribute?

 

I saw this on a website: (https://wiki.fireundubh.com/deadfire/dialogue-options)

 

 

 

 

Hmm.  My mistake!  Carry on!

 

^{(I still think Resolve is worthless...)}

[Franknstein]

On a side note (but regarding the RP aspect of playing a priest). The gods are fabricated. And the Watcher is well aware about it. Has conversations w. them on a regular basis, corpotate CEO stand-up meeting style.

 

Where come the Watcher-priest spells from? Could one really preserve his belief in a deity as a higher power under such circumstences?

 

Could strong belief in a mundane person or organisation grant spells?

[PneumaticFire]

On a side note (but regarding the RP aspect of playing a priest). The gods are fabricated. And the Watcher is well aware about it. Has conversations w. them on a regular basis, corpotate CEO stand-up meeting style.

 

Where come the Watcher-priest spells from? Could one really preserve his belief in a deity as a higher power under such circumstences?

 

Could strong belief in a mundane person or organisation grant spells?

 

 

Yes, they're created and the Watcher is aware of this, but they are still all powerful, conscious, living entities - just as other beings are created - they're just not the alpha and omega so to speak.  So the way I see it, is that a Priest worships or follows the characteristics that their God embodies - and the God is just a literal personification or embodiment of that.  

So a Priest could still call out to their God and strive towards (or chase) them and want answers and closure.

Now in saying that I haven't finished the game and look forward to finding out what answers if any, towards that are given - even if what I've heard the ending is a little anticlimactic (please don't spoil anything).

 

I would just like some acknowledgement or reactiveness in-game towards my class and maybe even Eothas specific.

 

I am a very story driven person, so a strength of a class also lies in their ability or skills in conversation and unlocking certain convo options.  Hence wanting advice on balancing resolve (if it affects this) into the equation.

Edited January 8, 2019 by PneumaticFire

[Boeroer]

As explained in the lore, Priests don't get their spells from the gods, but from the power of their souls. In this case their soul power + beliefs form the spells you use as a priest.

 

If you could really believe in the ideals of atheism you would be able to be a Priest of Zilch or so - in theory. 

 

Or maybe a Proest of the whole Pantheon - if you worshipped all of the gods equally. Whatever...

 

 

Just be a Wizard/Paladin or a Fighter/Paladin... it does everything better, except healing, which can be done as efficiently with scrolls/potions.

It doesn't remove afflictions in an AoE, it doesn't buff in an AoE, it doesn't revive in an AoE - it doesn't do a lot of things a Priest can do better actually.

 

My problem with the Priest in POE2 is all of the spells take forever on recovery (or maybe it is me).   I just feel like my wizards can buff up 6+ spells to god status, while the priest is still recovering from its first spell.

That's because yopur Wizard only uses self buffs while the Priest is buffing the whole party. How OP would it be if he could cast Blessing + Devotions like a Wizard can cast Eldritch Aim + Alacrity? Besides that: most Preist spells have the same recovery as an melee attack. Not that long actually.

 

Even nuking the wizard "feels" more fluid over the priest.

Priests are good nukers - but it wouldn't feel right if they were better than WIzards in this case, right? Priests are for support - nuking is only an addon.

 

Add in the fact that you don't have to buy a single spell as a wizard and it is clearly superior to the priest...

Yes, that is a valid point that has to be addressed. Grimoires are very powerful and there's nothing camparable for other classes.

 

Oh yeah, I could make a case for a Druid being a better healers, which makes the Priest an odd choice.

That depends on the Priest and Druid. Druids are actually a mix of Priest and Wizard plus some melee. But I agree that in general the Druid is the better healer. But he's a worse buffer and affliction remover.

 

Priest / Cipher is just so bad. No way I can suggest that.

Sure there is a way: try Priest of Eothas/Ascendant. Once you reach ascended state cast Salvation of Time and cast everything into the ground while ascended for a long time.

 

Helwalker/Priest is also fun because DoT stuff like Shining Beacon profits a lot from both +MIG (+30% additive dmg) and +INT (+50% multiplicative). Same with healing over time. You can play it as melee character, but then I would suggest heavy armor and a heavy shield in the second weapon slot at least. As ranged priest you won't have that many problems with your increased "damage taken" - still carry a large shield in the seciond slot. You want to switch to it once you get focus-fired by guns. I still like a mig-ranged monk (multiclass or not) with mortars. The AoE size profits a lot from the +INT and the fact that you have no recovery but only reload (which can be cancelled for casting) helps a ton at being reactive/responsive.

Stunning Surge + mortars is awesome as well. Dance of Death is very nice.

 

Besides that a melee Priest with Sun and Moon is always nice. THe chance to repeat fire spells is great and the weapon totaqlly fits a Priest of Eothas. Grab Xoti's Lantern - it's great.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Boeroer

[Franknstein]

 

On a side note (but regarding the RP aspect of playing a priest). The gods are fabricated. And the Watcher is well aware about it. Has conversations w. them on a regular basis, corpotate CEO stand-up meeting style.

 

Where come the Watcher-priest spells from? Could one really preserve his belief in a deity as a higher power under such circumstences?

 

Could strong belief in a mundane person or organisation grant spells?

 

Yes, they're created and the Watcher is aware of this, but they are still all powerful, conscious, living entities - just as other beings are created - they're just not the alpha and omega so to speak. So the way I see it, is that a Priest worships or follows the characteristics that their God embodies - and the God is just a literal personification or embodiment of that.

So a Priest could still call out to their God and strive towards (or chase) them and want answers and closure.

Now in saying that I haven't finished the game and look forward to finding out what answers if any, towards that are given - even if what I've heard the ending is a little anticlimactic (please don't spoil anything).

 

I would just like some acknowledgement or reactiveness in-game towards my class and maybe even Eothas specific.

 

I'd be very interested in your thoughts on the matter after you complete the gig. =)

[Ensign]

Not to devolve this into yet another Resolve thread, but while the headline of 'dump RES for maximum effect' is generally correct, the argument of it being a completely useless attribute is not.

 

When you are allocating attribute points you are selecting between the options on a 1:1 point basis, so only their relative values matter. In most cases, a point of some other attribute will have higher value than a point of RES, so the 'best' allocation dumps RES.

 

But that does not mean RES is worth nothing, just less than the next best option. If, for sake of illustration, Resolve gave two points of deflection per point instead of 1, it would be ideal to pump RES to the max on virtually every character to maximize their power. So RES is clearly not worthless. A good faith estimate would put a point of RES as equal to about 0.7 points of DEX/PER/MGT on average, with specific builds of course valuing it more or less highly.

 

But that would mean the difference between an optimally dumped RES and a 'baseline' RES isn't 7 'wasted' points, but closer to 2 in end effectiveness. All in I would price it at about a 4% power loss in the abstract. That isn't optimal! It also certainly isn't unplayable, and is honestly pretty minor in the grand scope of sub-optimal build decisions for aesthetic reasons.

[Yosharian]

Not to devolve this into yet another Resolve thread, but while the headline of 'dump RES for maximum effect' is generally correct, the argument of it being a completely useless attribute is not.

 

When you are allocating attribute points you are selecting between the options on a 1:1 point basis, so only their relative values matter. In most cases, a point of some other attribute will have higher value than a point of RES, so the 'best' allocation dumps RES.

 

But that does not mean RES is worth nothing, just less than the next best option. If, for sake of illustration, Resolve gave two points of deflection per point instead of 1, it would be ideal to pump RES to the max on virtually every character to maximize their power. So RES is clearly not worthless. A good faith estimate would put a point of RES as equal to about 0.7 points of DEX/PER/MGT on average, with specific builds of course valuing it more or less highly.

 

But that would mean the difference between an optimally dumped RES and a 'baseline' RES isn't 7 'wasted' points, but closer to 2 in end effectiveness. All in I would price it at about a 4% power loss in the abstract. That isn't optimal! It also certainly isn't unplayable, and is honestly pretty minor in the grand scope of sub-optimal build decisions for aesthetic reasons.

There are dirt-cheap items that grant 7 deflection. Spells that grant up to 50.

 

Show me the item that grants 7 might. Show me the spell that grants 50 intellect.

 

And don't even think about bringing the hostile duration effect into this, that has almost zero effect on gameplay.

[Retro1210]

Huh weird. I just finished my Pure priest run, and well into my Bleak Waelker run. Having lots of fun on both, but I do play with mods that give the priest extra casts, and buff some of their spells(Like crowns for the faithful.

 

Although Berath is certainly a different coloured horse than Eothas I imagine them playing the same. Litany for the spirit/Minor Avatar, throw buffs, and then throw heals as needed. I don't know about the Dawnstars, but the Pallid Knight and Usher summons were incredibly underwhelming since they can't penetrate anything on harder difficulties.

 

Bleak Waelker(Bleak Walker/Wael Priest) is a lot more active, but has less cool abilities. I imagine any templar to be a Tank/Support, but not utterly impossible to kill like Heralds are. Also I tend to run with a pure priest just so I can have someone pop the really good buffs and debuffs while the MC focuses on healing.

[Ensign]

There are dirt-cheap items that grant 7 deflection. Spells that grant up to 50.

There are tons of items in the game that provide +12 accuracy. There are skills that provide +100% damage; passives that give 10 accuracy or 20% damage are common. None of that has anything to do with how effective their respective attributes are. All that matters are the marginal effects and opportunity costs of the different choices available.

 

<cut a lot because reading this argument just makes everyone involved stupider, I apologize for indulging it>

Edited January 9, 2019 by Ensign

[Frog Man]

On a side note (but regarding the RP aspect of playing a priest). The gods are fabricated. And the Watcher is well aware about it. Has conversations w. them on a regular basis, corpotate CEO stand-up meeting style.

 

Where come the Watcher-priest spells from? Could one really preserve his belief in a deity as a higher power under such circumstences?

 

Could strong belief in a mundane person or organisation grant spells?

Corporate CEO standup meeting rofl. That is perfect.

[Franknstein]

As explained in the lore, Priests don't get their spells from the gods, but from the power of their souls. In this case their soul power + beliefs form the spells you use as a priest.

 

If you could really believe in the ideals of atheism you would be able to be a Priest of Zilch or so - in theory.

 

 

Now I want this. And a Prophet of Balance. Because Balance!

[Ensign]

Anyway, to cut through all the crap there are two overriding philosophies, across games and genres, that apply to backline characters in this game:

 

1 - Backline characters only gets hit because you are bad.  Dump RES dump CON, bath towels for everyone!  Get better nubsauce or you're never gonna get peak performance!

 

2 - Backline characters get hit when you play bad.  Fortunately they're wearing mail and have shields so it's no big deal.  Even a total nubsauce can win with this.

 

There is inevitably a lot of social pressure towards 1.  It becomes easier with experience and provides more opportunity for skill expression and really spectacular plays.

 

Most players should pick 2.

 

Deadfire is a robust enough system to support both well.

[Yosharian]

 

There are dirt-cheap items that grant 7 deflection. Spells that grant up to 50.

You mean the deflection cloak that you get the privilege of buying by spending Berath's Blessings on a unique item merchant? Yes, in fact, that item is great. I go back and forth on whether that or the firethrower gloves are the more impactful item granted by that blessing. It is one of the really compelling reasons to invest in that blessing. Most items grant 2-4 deflection.

 

It often isn't used in endgame solo builds because there are some really good defensive cloaks in the game - Greater Protection is arguably better especially when soloing, and Giftbearer's Cloth is often even better with skill investment. That is what that slot does! It no more makes RES bad than legendary weapons make PER bad with their +15 accuracy.

 

You can get +50 deflection for 3 seconds by using escape. If we want to play that game, devastating blow grants up to +90 might for a single attack. Herp derp this is smart criticism. When we are finished making misleading arguments, it's easy to find a lot of abilities that grant +10 or +20 to deflection longer term, but there are also plenty of abilities that grant +10 or +20 to accuracy.

 

*None* of this is to say that +1 deflection is equal to +1 accuracy! It isn't! It's not worthless though, and arguments that it is worthless fly in the face of the many defensive bonuses available in the game that are highly valued.

The item exists, stop quibbling about it being a BB item.

 

Arcane Veil lasts 12 seconds by default, more like 20 lategame. Disingenuous.

 

The only person using misleading arguments here is you.

 

There are a million ways to get massive Deflection boosts in game, that completely obsolete any kind of investment in RES.

Edited January 8, 2019 by Yosharian

[PneumaticFire]

I agree, while useful to the over all topic, let's not let this devolve into a Resolve argument.

 

Can anyone confirm just how much or how often Resolve affects conversation options and skills?

 

Also who can recommend their specific stat distribution at character creation (and later on) for a Priest of Eothas, while still making them good conversationalists (diplomacy/resolve-wise if applicable)?

Edited January 9, 2019 by PneumaticFire

[Boeroer]

There was a table with attribute based dialogue checks floating around in some of the latest threads here... can't find it...