Chris Avellone: The Final Frontier

[Drowsy Emperor]

my issue with MCA is that he has been rehashing old ideas in many of the characters that he has written after Torment and I have not seen anything from him that is nearly as memorable for a very long time now.

 

That really overshadows the entire nonsensical controversy for me. We're here for the games, not to be an ethics board. Presumably.

 

He wrote Durance, right? It's the most annoyingly overwritten, repetitive bull****ter I've seen in a video game. I'd say that's the problem right there.

Edited May 7, 2018 by Drowsy Emperor

[kirottu]

Guys, I'm pretty sure someone saying the f-word and accusing someone else being a shill is just another day at codex.

 

Sidenote: Could IHaveHugeNick be nick-i-am?

[Leferd]

Guys, I'm pretty sure someone saying the f-word and accusing someone else being a shill is just another day at codex.

 

Sidenote: Could IHaveHugeNick be nick-i-am?

Lyranor’s back?

[Zoraptor]

Avellone was Oby all along.

 

Extra twist: it's that account he's upset about losing most, not the dev one.

 

 

Also, do we have any actual evidence, or is it all word of mouth (or forum post)?

 

 

There's evidence that some of his criticisms are accurate in the macro sense at least. I don't think anyone believes that the management of Obsidian has not had issues for example- the K2 extension not being in writing being the most glaringly obvious example. There's essentially no way to confirm any of the anecdotal stuff though, by its nature, and you'd have to assume that the other parties involved would have different recollections.

 

Either he can't keep it together because everything isn't fine and dandy as he makes it seem or he is drinking or doing some other subtances that mess with his mind.

 

 

The first part, sure, that I can see. If you're happy you usually don't vent your spleen over stuff that happened up to decades ago, and tend to just let it go rather than have it fester. The rest... nah, and personally I find the speculation over it distasteful in much the same as speculation from the 'other side' on motivations for actions. All it requires for him to be commenting is an axe to grind and him finally finding a grindstone, it doesn't require anything else.

 

 

 

Sadly Shills are a reality despite what someone would believe..

 

 

Sure, on large influential websites. It's always amusing when someone accuses people who disagree with them of being shills on a niche website though, as 99.99% of the time it's just a defence mechanism against stuff that hurts their feeling or they cannot effectively counter- I'm not wrong, because... you're a shill! is a pathetic argument. If _Nick was a day old account, OK, but he's a decently term member at the Codex.

 

Questioning someone is not shilling, and since Chris was not involved in Indiana and left at this point years ago it's perfectly reasonable to question whether he really has the Good Oil or not.

 

Plus of course, it's unfortunate to fly off the handle when your argument relies on everyone else being the problem- one of the reasons why it's better for Chris himself not to be commenting so much, entertaining as it is. For all we know Feargus et al may have done what Chris says (within limits)- but we now have Chris publicly calling someone a shill and a colossal asterisk in public- and that's just more evidence for the Chris being a sensitive snowflake who couldn't handle criticism and took everything personally side of the argument. If he's going to take something as trivial as random codexer questioning his cred talking about a project he never worked on from a company he left 2 years ago personally then he'd obviously be more likely to take things like Durance/ GM being trimmed to size personally instead of it being nothing personal but a necessity for the game.

 

Sidenote: Could IHaveHugeNick be nick-i-am?

 

Doubt it. 'I have a huge nick' is a pretty obvious play on words.

 

And there's no 'stalker' gimmick despite L having a codex account and posting there.

[Guest]

my issue with MCA is that he has been rehashing old ideas in many of the characters that he has written after Torment and I have not seen anything from him that is nearly as memorable for a very long time now.

 

That really overshadows the entire nonsensical controversy for me. We're here for the games, not to be an ethics board. Presumably.

 

He wrote Durance, right? It's the most annoyingly overwritten, repetitive bull****ter I've seen in a video game. I'd say that's the problem right there.

I made a similar observation on Reddit the other week. To my surprise he responded.

 

Durance was nothing more than Ignus and Kreia. Not a bad mix, but not a new character either. Same thing with Shape of Fire in MotB; an old character with a new name.

[Mebrilia]

another juicy article with details

 

From Chris:

 

Owner share divisions are here, if curious, TechRaptor asked some more questions over the weekend: 

https://techraptor.net/content/interview-chris-avellone-obsidian-entertainment

[Hurlshort]

 

Guys, I'm pretty sure someone saying the f-word and accusing someone else being a shill is just another day at codex.

 

Sidenote: Could IHaveHugeNick be nick-i-am?

Lyranor’s back?

 

 

Seems to blatant to be Nick. Also Nick and Llyr really were two different people. I used to play Xbox Live games with them. I usually had no idea what was going on.

[HoonDing]

"my issue with MCA is that he has been rehashing old ideas in many of the characters that he has written after Torment and I have not seen anything from him that is nearly as memorable for a very long time now."

 

only Annah was memorable because of her big b00bies

[Leferd]

another juicy article with details

 

From Chris:

 

Owner share divisions are here, if curious, TechRaptor asked some more questions over the weekend:

 

https://techraptor.net/content/interview-chris-avellone-obsidian-entertainment

I don’t know how legitimate a tech site they are, but a good journalistic practice would be to seek comment from the other parties involved.

[Mebrilia]

Problem is... Obsidian is silent on the matter... and i understand that since POE2 is about to release.

[Guest]

 

another juicy article with details

 

From Chris:

 

Owner share divisions are here, if curious, TechRaptor asked some more questions over the weekend:

 

https://techraptor.net/content/interview-chris-avellone-obsidian-entertainment

I don’t know how legitimate a tech site they are, but a good journalistic practice would be to seek comment from the other parties involved.

 

TechRaptor Journalistic Practices Seek Truth

TechRaptor strives to seek the truth on all matters and report honestly and fairly. Special care is given to verify all information and utilize original sources whenever possible. TechRaptor aims to never distort the facts or misrepresent them in any way either by intention or omission of facts such as context, and in cases that such may occur, steps will be taken to remedy it as soon as possible. This will be disclosed to the readers so they may know what has occurred.

We shall seek out the subjects of news and ask them to respond to any criticisms or allegations. In the event that they do not respond, this will be reported in the relevant article. Should TechRaptor receive a response after the fact, it shall be updated to include said response. We shall seek viewpoints from all sides, even those we disagree with, and allow them to share their point of view. All opinions, commentary, and advocacy on matters will be labelled as such.

TL;DR

– Gather accurate information and report it

– Use original sources

– Do not distort information in any way

– Remedy errors and disclose the fact if they occur

– Reach out to those who are criticized or have allegations levied against them

– Give a voice to all

[Leferd]

Problem is... Obsidian is silent on the matter... and i understand that since POE2 is about to release.

It didn’t even look like they even tried. Otherwise there would be a “Representatives of Obsidian Entertainment declined to comment for this story” disclaimer.

 

As such, this is just a rehash of Avellone’s litany of grievances re-circulated beyond the original confines of the Codex. Yet another example of the distressing tremd towards news aggrandizing journalism.

[Mebrilia]

 

Problem is... Obsidian is silent on the matter... and i understand that since POE2 is about to release.

It didn’t even look like they even tried. Otherwise there would be a “Representatives of Obsidian Entertainment declined to comment for this story” disclaimer.

 

As such, this is just a rehash of Avellone’s litany of grievances re-circulated beyond the original confines of the Codex. Yet another example of the distressing tremd towards news aggrandizing journalism.

 

Like i said Obsidian won't make delcaration not until Deadfire is released and even after i don't think they will release declaration on the matter that could generate a cycle of posts and answers and i don't think is in the best interest of Obsidian doing so.. The fact Obsidian had financial problems is nothing new and the Avellone posts seems coherent with those times Obsidian had problems in such matter..

 

 

Despite that blaming a site because they reach first the part willing to speak is absolutely unfair in the end if someone don't want to answer your question or is known to don't answer questions what you can do in that regard? I am sure that site will contact Obsidian when the game is released answering now is not bound to do any good and a refusal to answer such declaration is also not good.

 

I do understand Obsidian not wanting to answer right now. But if Avellone went forward so boldly in such declarations i am inclined to believe him he never did something like that in past and is clear to me that what he is attacking is the ethic of the upper management.

[Leferd]

I really don’t have a dog in this quarrel. I like MCA’s work in the past. He’s certainly one of the most talented game designers in the industry.

 

I also like Obsidian. They are one of the few developers that create RPGs I want to play and I’ve been a member of this forum since the beginning and even further back to the Black Isle days. I’ll continue to follow both Avellone and Obsidian and look forward to their games.

 

That being said, my gripe is with the TechRaptor story itself. That was poor and irresponsible journalism.

[The Sharmat]

Ehhh...I'd say he's one of the more talented game writers in the industry. Not so much a designer. No one plays Torment or KOTOR 2 for their great encounter design or thought provoking mechanics.

[Leferd]

Say what you will about his level design skills, but he was Lead Designer on PST and K2 and Senior Designer on FO2 and FNV. As a whole, I’ll credit his design skills as a whole and not just as a writer. Give the man his due - he does more than write video game characters. His games where he was lead designer are classics.

[The Sharmat]

I will give him credit for actually using gameplay mechanics to drive narrative, instead of trying to force a movie script into video game format; but I still think the execution is often pretty lacking. But given almost no one else is pulling it off either, I suppose it could just be that it's very hard to do.

[Guest]

Say what you will about his level design skills, but he was Lead Designer on PST and K2 and Senior Designer on FO2 and FNV. As a whole, I’ll credit his design skills as a whole and not just as a writer. Give the man his due - he does more than write video game characters. His games where he was lead designer are classics.

+1

 

Sith Lords and Alpha Protocol are still personal favorites.

[Zoraptor]

The main criticism of Chris as a writer is being too verbose and reusing character archetypes, but since the words are quality and the archetypes interesting that's a very mild criticism. The main criticism as a designer... I don't really have any specific ones. I guess it would be that all of PST/ K2 and AP shared some similar flaws indicating that he may not have learned from mistakes, but then I'd also accept that they shared other factors such as the same management in oversight; and, in the end I loved them all despite their flaws.

 

As for the TechRaptor article, I suspect it's fishing for comment from Obsidian rather than being unfair/ unethical- I would point out their other article on the issue specifically says they did ask for comment from Obs- and I'm sure they'd leap at a rebuttal if one was offered. Any reporting done is going to run into the general issue of how to handle someone making comments such as Chris's and the other party plain not replying, as it's also unjournalistic to allow someone to control what articles are written by deliberately not providing the balance in fair and balanced.

[Blarghagh]

I'm with Sharmat on this one. I've heard Torment has great replayability, but I'll never know because no amount of good story would motivate me to play it again. Getting past Crust(?) was such a chore the first time I'll never touch it again, and it only got worse from there on out.

[Gregorovitch]

 

 

another juicy article with details

 

From Chris:

 

Owner share divisions are here, if curious, TechRaptor asked some more questions over the weekend:

 

https://techraptor.net/content/interview-chris-avellone-obsidian-entertainment

I don’t know how legitimate a tech site they are, but a good journalistic practice would be to seek comment from the other parties involved.

 

TechRaptor Journalistic Practices Seek Truth

TechRaptor strives to seek the truth on all matters and report honestly and fairly. Special care is given to verify all information and utilize original sources whenever possible. TechRaptor aims to never distort the facts or misrepresent them in any way either by intention or omission of facts such as context, and in cases that such may occur, steps will be taken to remedy it as soon as possible. This will be disclosed to the readers so they may know what has occurred.

We shall seek out the subjects of news and ask them to respond to any criticisms or allegations. In the event that they do not respond, this will be reported in the relevant article. Should TechRaptor receive a response after the fact, it shall be updated to include said response. We shall seek viewpoints from all sides, even those we disagree with, and allow them to share their point of view. All opinions, commentary, and advocacy on matters will be labelled as such.

TL;DR

– Gather accurate information and report it

– Use original sources

– Do not distort information in any way

– Remedy errors and disclose the fact if they occur

– Reach out to those who are criticized or have allegations levied against them

– Give a voice to all

 

 

Clearly they have failed to follow their own guidelines. If they had reached out to Obsidian, and if Obdisian had refused to comment, they would have said so. That would be standard journalism practice.

[Leferd]

Well, let’s just say that TechRaptor covering Obsidian doesn’t appear to be in the same league as say Forbes or Bloomberg covering Uber or even HardOCP covering NVIDIA and their respective business practices.

[Mebrilia]

Again Obsidian is not answering or denying nothing at the moment because doing so would be risky for them.. The site had the opportunity to talk with Chris Avellone because they didin't have the opportunity to talk with Obsidian yet.

 

Keep in mind this is a delicate moment for Obsidian they are releasing Deadfire accept or refuse an interview can put them in a bad situation.

 

Look i am with Avellone in this but i can understand why Obsidian now is not answering and i also i can undestand why. That site put up an interview attacking that site or labeling umprofessional is just stupid as it is... Sometimes you public a side of the story then when avaliable you public the other side.

Edited May 8, 2018 by Mebrilia

[Guest]

I'm with Sharmat on this one. I've heard Torment has great replayability, but I'll never know because no amount of good story would motivate me to play it again. Getting past Crust(?) was such a chore the first time I'll never touch it again, and it only got worse from there on out.

I played it once, and that was enough.

[The Sharmat]

Torment has a very clear right way to play it. If you really like that way, it's a rich story filled with details that warrant a replay. But I'd never replay it to try another path through the game or experiment with character builds or anything like that. Even getting different companions on its own isn't worth it. The game is too long vs. the amount of content they get to be worth it. KOTOR 2 is somewhat better in that regard and I've heard Alpha Protocol is basically meant to be replayed a bunch of different ways.