OMG are Fighters powerful in Deadfire

[Boeroer]

Rogues are not so bad. You just have to use rod+Blast with Arterial Strike as an alpha strike to punish every enemy for moving around severerly or use a blunderbuss with Confounding Blind to drop an enemy's deflection into negative regions. And that's no multiclassing, single class.

 

I have to admit that those are pretty gimmicky uses though...

 

However, rogue (or assassin) with Backstab and invisibily few times per encounter is effective and fun.

Also, Deep Wounds is way better than in PoE.

 

All in all I agree that rogues have too many active abilities and not enough good passives. But maybe that will be different after lvl 9. It's not even half of the level range we can see in the beta.

 

Fighter's active attack abilites I always found quite meh in the beta - now they can get Charge more early which is good.

 

Disciplined Barrage + Strikes Upgrade is one of the top abilites of the game - due to how strong Intuitive as an inspiration is. So in my opinion you don't need to nerf Disciplined Strikes, you have to nerf Intuitive.

 

If you want to develop a ridiculous tank you can multiclass paladin with fighter. Paladins have even better defensive capabilites which match pretty well with the fighter's, creating a great synergy (defensive-wise).

 

But the craziest thing still for tanking is Blade Turning. Funnily, nobody complains about that.

Edited April 5, 2018 by Boeroer

[dunehunter]

Rogues are not so bad. You just have to use rod+Blast with Arterial Strike as an alpha strike to punish every enemy for moving around severerly or use a blunderbuss with Confounding Blind to drop an enemy's deflection into negative regions. And that's no multiclassing, single class.

 

I have to admit that those are pretty gimmicky uses though...

 

However, rogue (or assassin) with Backstab and invisibily few times per encounter is effective and fun.

Also, Deep Wounds is way better than in PoE.

 

All in all I agree that rogues have too many active abilities and not enough good passives. But maybe that will be different after lvl 9. It's not even half of the level range we can see in the beta.

 

Fighter's active attack abilites I always found quite meh in the beta - now they can get Charge more early which is good.

 

Disciplined Barrage + Strikes Upgrade is one of the top abilites of the game - due to how strong Intuitive as an inspiration is. So in my opinion you don't need to nerf Disciplined Strikes, you have to nerf Intuitive.

 

If you want to develop a ridiculous tank you can multiclass paladin with fighter. Paladins have even better defensive capabilites which match pretty well with the fighter'sm kaing a great synergy.

 

But the craziest thing still for tanking is Blade Turning. Funnily, nobody complains about that.

 

Deep wounds is nerfed in the recent patch, and if you don't multiclass a soulblade or a paladin, backstabbing is not that good acutally, smoke veil has 3 sec recovery so you literally trade time for more burst damage, not much dps improvement. Shadowing beyond is awesome but it cost 3 guile...

 

Rogue loses reckless assault which is one of the best modal for dps in early game, and in trade they get some not so effective new active abilities like strike the bell, and rod rogue or blunerbuss roge is good at puttng afflictions but I think the main role of rogue is a Striker but I don't think they are that effective at killing now(I mean single class ones).

Edited April 5, 2018 by dunehunter

[theBalthazar]

If you nerf intuitive Fighter become not anymore interresting.

 

Problem : Intuitive is at bad place OR few others abilities are simply bad ?

 

I go for the second statement.

 

Zealous focus ? : 5 % of hit to crit = 2.5 % of critical hit for each party member.

 

No,if zealous need a boost, IN ADDITION to THAT, intuitive is the trump card of Fighter^^...

 

1) If you down intuitive you break the trump card of Fighter.

2) Others abilities continue to make little or no difference and Fighter is bad in his niche (strongly outworn by berserker and paladin).

Edited April 5, 2018 by theBalthazar

[JerekKruger]

They are not only immune to lowest level of affliction, but also immune to highest level of afflictions.

Yep, that's the real strength of the resistance talents. You can give yourself immunity to some hard CC.

 

They also stack with the racials that do the same (it at least did) the downgrade afflictions by two tiers, giving you immunity to the two lower tiers and downgrading the highest tier to tier 1.

[KDubya]

The resistances are the same as the racials so everyone can get them. Before in Beta the fighter and paladin resistances did not stack with the racial ones, is that different now?

 

My thought was that since the weapon styles are available to everyone now, Fighters were not that great as a multi compared to Barbs and Paladins.

 

Fighters get:

• stances where the bonuses get overwritten by auras (warrior stance) making cleave the best choice
• Disciplined Strikes which is great, the main reason to multi in a Fighter now
• Constant Recovery is good
• Knockdown sucks and Mule kick sucks donkey balls
• Two crap passives at tier one with arms bearer and fast runner. Hope you want an extra weapon slot
• The defensive passives are available to most other classes
• Weapon spec gets you +10% damage which is ok but nothing to gloat about
• Vigorous Defense at 2 Discipline for 15 seconds of +20 is good
• Into the Fray is bad at a cost of two discipline
• Unbending at a cost of three discipline will be real expensive for a multi
• Confident Aim is a good passive at 50% graze to hit.
• Charge seems bugged right now, doesn't look like it does anything

 

Meanwhile Paladins get a +20 defense to everything including deflection for one point in Deep Faith, plus an easily spammed Flames of Devotion that can get a lasting duration, a marking ability that can refund its zeal cost, some cool on kill defensive boosts and on damage armor boosts. Plus they can get the same defensive passives as a Fighter.

 

If I want a tanky guy I'm thinking Paladin not Fighter.

 

Barbarians get a lot of offensive passives like extra damage when outnumbered, faster action speed on kill, rage/berserk, carnage..

 

If I want a tanky damage dealer I'm thinking paladin/barbarian not fighter/barbarian.

 

Cleave chain reaction regen and Disciplined Strikes are pretty much the sum total of what a Fighter gets you. They definitely are not overpowered.

 

 

PS I think single class Rogues are pretty bad but as a multi they add some value. The Trickster getting illusion spells when combined with a Paladin makes for a really tanky single target damage dealer.

Edited April 5, 2018 by KDubya

[dunehunter]

Cleave chain is the most OP things I see in early game.

[JerekKruger]

The resistances are the same as the racials so everyone can get them. Before in Beta the fighter and paladin resistances did not stack with the racial ones, is that different now?

 

Probably just me being wrong

 

Two crap passives at tier one with arms bearer and fast runner. Hope you want an extra weapon slot

 

I take Fast Runner on Unbroken Fighters, but otherwise yes, it's pretty terrible.

Edited April 5, 2018 by JerekKruger

[Boeroer]

Really? I tested both Cleaving Stance and Swift Flurry excessively (solo) and I think Swift Flurry has a lot more potential than Cleaving Stance. Combining both is fun.

[dunehunter]

Really? I tested both Cleaving Stance and Swift Flurry excessively (solo) and I think Swift Flurry has a lot more potential than Cleaving Stance. Combining both is fun.

If you read the log of beta 4 change, the proc chance of swift flurry is nerfed to 30%, so sadly I don’t think they are the most OP things now

 

A proc on kill ‘heart of fury’ which can trigger itself is very OP to me.

Edited April 5, 2018 by dunehunter

[Boeroer]

Oh, I totally missed the Swift Flurry nerf. Still cascading though. With enough enemies in range you can still get one-shot-wipes. Try one-handed Minor Blights...

 

Especially with Confounding Blind (applied by somebody else in an AoE - like a Trickster/Priest of Wael or so) you get a chain reaction as soon as the train is rolling.

 

Heart of Fury is something else than Cleaving Attack because it triggers Carnage on every hit as well. Vengeful Defeat would be an appropriate comparison I guess.

 

But yes, it's good. Especially solo of course. Did you try the Upgrade of Barbaric Blow (0 recovery on kill or refund on kill) with Cleaving Stance yet? I imagine hat could be cool as well?

Edited April 5, 2018 by Boeroer

[SonicMage117]

I saw one of the devs checking out the thread last night, I suspect they were nodding their head and taking everything into account.

[Amentep]

Friendly reminder - keep to the topic and not throwing out attempts to poke at perceived "trolls".

[theBalthazar]

Barbarian need a 45 % of damage with carnage. (Actually 33 %, was 66 % in POE1)

 

Actually this is not really crazy.

[Boeroer]

Friendly reminder - keep to the topic and not throwing out attempts to poke at perceived "trolls".

Eh? Where did you see that?

 

I agree that Carnage is a bit weak. I mean all right it doesn't need PEN and all but 30% is pretty whimpy. Also because Carnage's radius is smaller due to the nerf of the effects that INT has on AoE size.

[Amentep]

In the material I edited out of the thread, some of which you can still see pieces of now.

[Boeroer]

Haha - all right. 

[rjshae]

Wait, what? Fighters are far and away the best fighters? Say it ain't so...

[Dr <3]

As a side note: imho smoke veif for rogue is very strong. Maybe some of you have not noticed but it says also "untargetable" at the activation. That means that you can evade everything trown as you as far as you are invis.

Es: languefath shaman cast necrotic lane on you? With a rogue you can

A) easily interrupt him

B) smoke veil before he finished casting ( and remain invis until casting is done and miss you, if you go back from invis too soon it will hit you)

C) smoke veil after he finished casting but before projectile actually hits you

 

A lot of options. And before it expires you will always have the time to backstab someone. And you can do it 2-3 times every fight.

 

Rogues are ok as they are

[Boeroer]

I find it way better than Shadowing Beyond (which is too expensive).

[Yosharian]

 

Friendly reminder - keep to the topic and not throwing out attempts to poke at perceived "trolls".

Eh? Where did you see that?

 

I agree that Carnage is a bit weak. I mean all right it doesn't need PEN and all but 30% is pretty whimpy. Also because Carnage's radius is smaller due to the nerf of the effects that INT has on AoE size.

Carnage has always been utter crap. The only thing that saved it in PoE was weapon procs. Without that, it's trash, even if it is raw damage.

 

Carnage needs to be completely reworked.

[Wormerine]

Carnage has always been utter crap. The only thing that saved it in PoE was weapon procs. Without that, it's trash, even if it is raw damage.

Carnage needs to be completely reworked.

? How? Because damaging everyone around, and not only enemy you are aiming at is somewhat bad?

 

I do feel it’s a bit less spectacular in Deadfire due to less crowded fights, enemies are fewer and tougher, which makes carnage a bit less effective as there is far less trash mob to dead with.

[M4xw0lf]

We need weapon procs back on carnage, without that, Barbarian is not really worth the reduced durability in comparison to Fighters and Paladins.

[Boeroer]

 

 

Friendly reminder - keep to the topic and not throwing out attempts to poke at perceived "trolls".

Eh? Where did you see that?

 

I agree that Carnage is a bit weak. I mean all right it doesn't need PEN and all but 30% is pretty whimpy. Also because Carnage's radius is smaller due to the nerf of the effects that INT has on AoE size.

Carnage has always been utter crap. The only thing that saved it in PoE was weapon procs. Without that, it's trash, even if it is raw damage.

 

 

In PoE it's not. It gains +1 ACC with every char level und thus has +6 (+11 with Accurate Carnage) accuracy compared to barb's base accuracy at lvl 16. Or in other words: it's like an AoE auto-attack with a higher "base" accuracy than a fighter has. The 34% damage malus loses its impact soon enough once you get other dmg modifiers. It's only bad in the early game due to abysmal ACC and low damage (=low DR penetration). And that's when people start to judge and toss it aside. Shame if you ask me.

 

It's one of the most powerful passive abilites in PoE if you know what you're doing and when you have to do it.

 

But I wouldn't want Deadfire to reintroduce the weapon procs with Carnage. You can already see which horrible balancing problems come with that: look at Spirit Lance/Minor Blights/Blast and how they are implemented (like PoE's Carnage basically...). Proc BLinding Strike in an AoE - use Soul Annihilation in an AoE - Cascade Swift Flurry to one-shot groups. Ach!

 

Again: I would want Carnage to be a bit better in Deadfire though. At the moment it makes me sad to look at those disappointing numbers (at lvl 9!). For starters they could give the Mage Slayer spell disruption for Carnage, too. 

Edited April 6, 2018 by Boeroer

[M4xw0lf]

 

It's one of the most powerful passive abilites in PoE if you know what you're doing and when you have to do it.

 

But I wouldn't want Deadfire to reintroduce the weapon procs with Carnage. You can already see which horrible balancing problems come with that: look at Spirit Lance/Minor Blights/Blast and how they are implemented (like PoE's Carnage basically...). Proc BLinding Strike in an AoE - use Soul Annihilation in an AoE - Cascade Swift Flurry to one-shot groups. Ach!

 

I would want Carnage to be a bit better in Deadfire though. At the moment it makes be sad to look at those disappointing numbers at lvl 9. FOr starters they could give the Mage Slayer spell disruption for Carnage, too. 

 

 

Yes

 

I have briefly thought about this as well, and I think this would still be viable if those effects were simply mitigated by the same modifier which is used for calculating the carnage damage, which is something like 30%? So we'd deal 30% of damage in the carnage AoE and deal afflictions with 30% duration, or with 30% strength, where applicable. Of course this value might still need to be lowered, but I don't think it would be so impossible to balance this.

Edited April 6, 2018 by M4xw0lf

[Boeroer]

It's the procs that make Lance/Blast/etc. crazy, not the damage. Swift Flurry for example doesn't care about the damage as long as it can trigger an endless chain reaction that snowballs everything to death in seconds.