Bartimaeus Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) It's funny how the story has changed from, "The FBI helped elect Trump!" (with Comey having a big announcement that they were reopening the Clinton investigation days before the election) to the opposite. Well, regardless, Nunes has apparently been caught editing the memo even further without the consent of the House after the "initial" version was approved. Fortunately for him, that doesn't break any laws - just some Congressional rules (...and it goes without saying that all ethics have been long since thrown out the window, clearly). Edited February 1, 2018 by Bartimaeus Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
Malcador Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 Thought the memo was today. Damn slipping release dates Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Zoraptor Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 As for the memo, it appears that Trump has said outright that he views it as a way to discredit the Mueller investigation, which is a total red flag to me that the memo shouldn't be released. It's pretty damn obvious that they're playing politics with it. If it discredits the investigation then of course Trump wants it released, but, if the investigation deserves to be discredited then that should not be a consideration in its release. There clearly have been issues with the investigation (people on it getting fired for anti Trump emails etc) and with the intelligence community at large with respect to Trump and they clearly preferred Clinton as a candidate. It's clearly going to be political, but everything is- questioning the accuracy of the memo is political, the investigation and IC leaking like a sieve is political etc etc.
HoonDing Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 IN a few months Trump will start throwing down his dissenters from choppers. The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
Guard Dog Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 While liars and scoundrels bicker over memos and spying much more interesting things are happening on the other side of the Mall: http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/01/neil-gorsuch-and-samuel-alito-butt-heads "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
HoonDing Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 That theory, "essentially as I understand it," Gorsuch said, is "that possession is good title against everybody except for people with superior title." sounds very Ancien Régime The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
SonicMage117 Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 While liars and scoundrels bicker over memos and spying much more interesting things are happening on the other side of the Mall: http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/01/neil-gorsuch-and-samuel-alito-butt-heads To be honest, I'm more interested in the memo. I want to see if it's really that big of a deal or if people here are right about it being useless and irrelevant. Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother? What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest. Begone! Lest I draw my nail...
Guard Dog Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 While liars and scoundrels bicker over memos and spying much more interesting things are happening on the other side of the Mall: http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/01/neil-gorsuch-and-samuel-alito-butt-heads To be honest, I'm more interested in the memo. I want to see if it's really that big of a deal or if people here are right about it being useless and irrelevant. It's irrelevant. Either everything in it is true. Or everything is a lie. Or it's somewhere in between. The people who swear it's true are all liars. The people who swear it isn't are all liars. The safe thing to do is just assume the worst is true. The FBI did abuse their power, the Democrats want to cover that up, and the Republicans are lying about how much they know about it. But here is the thing... no matter what that memo says, nothing will come of it. In a week it will be forgotten. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Agiel Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 (edited) While liars and scoundrels bicker over memos and spying much more interesting things are happening on the other side of the Mall: http://reason.com/blog/2018/02/01/neil-gorsuch-and-samuel-alito-butt-heads To be honest, I'm more interested in the memo. I want to see if it's really that big of a deal or if people here are right about it being useless and irrelevant. It's irrelevant. Either everything in it is true. Or everything is a lie. Or it's somewhere in between. The people who swear it's true are all liars. The people who swear it isn't are all liars. The safe thing to do is just assume the worst is true. The FBI did abuse their power, the Democrats want to cover that up, and the Republicans are lying about how much they know about it. But here is the thing... no matter what that memo says, nothing will come of it. In a week it will be forgotten. I'm not so sanguine about the bolded part. From the White House's perspective in the absolute best case scenario it gives them cover to fire Rosenstein and replace him with someone who will more readily clip Mueller's wings, if not fire him altogether. But at the minimum it feeds into Trump's narrative that it's the "deep state" which is keeping his agenda largely grounded (and not his own perniciousness and incompetence). In that instance GOP congressmen will not feel compelled to act on increasingly dire signs of White House misconduct as long as a perceived stain on the FBI's reputation exists in the eyes of their voters. Edited February 1, 2018 by Agiel Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling
SonicMage117 Posted February 1, 2018 Posted February 1, 2018 I hope it will be forgotten soon enough so we can move on but my gut tells me that realistically, it's going to be big for one party or the other. And either republicans will have alot to answer to or the democrats will and if the contents of the memo are changed or somehow mean nothing, I think people will talk about that for at least a couple months. Democrats would attempt to further more turn people against Trump in desperate lashes or Republicans will try more and more to uncover a democratic comspiracy that may or may not even exist. Either way, I think in the end more time will and resources will be spent on the memo but whether that time was spent well or wasted remains to be seen. Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother? What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest. Begone! Lest I draw my nail...
Malcador Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 Best outcome would be Nunes being cashiered Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
HoonDing Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 lock them all up The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.
smjjames Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 Well, the memo will be released tomorrow. It's a funny thing. These are the possibilities as I see it: The information in the memo is completely true and the FBI was abusing it's position and trying to affect the election. And that is why they are objecting The information in the memo is completely true and the FBI was abusing it's position but not tying to affect the election. But they are worried methods and sources may be compromised. The memo is not completely true but paints the FBI in a bad light to undermine other investigations that rely on FBI sources and data Any of the previous three with the memo being altered to be not completely true Any of the first three with the memo being altered to be false Everything is the memo was mostly false and it's all just a cynical political attempt to undermine the FBI for stated reasons. I could easily believe any one of these is the truth. The problem is, every last player in this sad little skit is a goddamed liar without a shred of integrity or credibility. So no matter which of these actually IS true I'll never know and wouldn't believe any one who does know. I can absolutely buy the FBI abusing it's authority to help Hillary. I can absolutely believe the Republicans are throwing the FBI under the bus for political reasons. I can absolutely believe the whole thing is made up and none of it's true. It's a funny situation really. And on top of all that, the WH is concerned that FBI director Chris Wray may resign in protest if the memo is released. I don't know if he made a direct statement to them saying that he will do so or if they're just thinking to themselves that he might resign in protest. So, whatever is in the memo, the drama is guaranteed to not die down for a while.
Bartimaeus Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 Today, he came out and said the opposite: that he would not resign, and he would in fact publicly contradict and provide a rebuttal to the memo if it's released. Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
SonicMage117 Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 Schiff and Nunes... from Bromance to Bitter Rivals https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2018/02/01/adam-b-schiff-and-devin-nunes-from-bromance-to-bitter-adversaries/ Nancy Pelosi says: "We can't let the memo get out. It could endanger the country." Just what do you think you're doing?! You dare to come between me and my prey? Is it a habit of yours to scurry about, getting in the way and causing bother? What are you still bothering me for? I'm a Knight. I'm not interested in your childish games. I need my rest. Begone! Lest I draw my nail...
Guard Dog Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 The fact that a liberty-hating statist like Pelosi is so opposed to the release reinforces that it MUST be released. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Bartimaeus Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 "The fact that a liberty-hating statist like Trump is so adamant to releasing it reinforces that it MUST not be released." ? Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
Guard Dog Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 "The fact that a liberty-hating statist like Trump is so adamant to releasing it reinforces that it MUST not be released." ? Actually Trumps opposition to releasing the one the Dems produced makes me think that one should be releaed too. 2 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Valsuelm Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 The fact that a liberty-hating statist like Pelosi is so opposed to the release reinforces that it MUST be released. We must release it to find out what is in it. 2
Valsuelm Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 "The fact that a liberty-hating statist like Trump is so adamant to releasing it reinforces that it MUST not be released." ? You're against government transparency and the public being fully informed?
smjjames Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 Bartimaeus was just poking at the logic I guess. Anyways, looks like Trump is going to release it regardless. "The fact that a liberty-hating statist like Trump is so adamant to releasing it reinforces that it MUST not be released." ? Actually Trumps opposition to releasing the one the Dems produced makes me think that one should be releaed too. I agree, all three of them should be released, the original that the intel commitee approved, the one Nunes edited (the one Trump is actually releasing), and the Democratic rebuttal one. Transparency for all, right? Today, he came out and said the opposite: that he would not resign, and he would in fact publicly contradict and provide a rebuttal to the memo if it's released. Okay. Sounds like it was just people at the WH thinking to themselves whether he was going to then. 1
Guard Dog Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 There are three kinds of people in government: Moral busybodies, radical idealists, and power hungry narcissists. None of these three would be desirable to have unchecked power over their fellow humans. So it is absolutely in our own interest, indeed for our own very survival, that we vigilantly watch what the three flawed archetypes are up to with the power they have. They should never, ever be allowed to operate unsupervised. They should never, ever be trusted to do the right thing when eyes are not on them. If your government does not want you to see something regarding what it's been up to, then you really, really need to see it. 1 "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell
Bartimaeus Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) What smjjames said, on all three lines. If the GOP are going to craft some memo with the apparent intention of discrediting the FBI and the Mueller investigation through talking points (...and continue to edit it after its initial review by Congress), we should at least be able to see the rebuttal. Also as James said, we should also be able to see the original version that was approved by Congress (which we're apparently not going to get to, because Nunes continues to prove that he's just a political hack). @Guard Dog above: agreed. Edited February 2, 2018 by Bartimaeus Quote How I have existed fills me with horror. For I have failed in everything - spelling, arithmetic, riding, tennis, golf; dancing, singing, acting; wife, mistress, whore, friend. Even cooking. And I do not excuse myself with the usual escape of 'not trying'. I tried with all my heart. In my dreams, I am not crippled. In my dreams, I dance.
smjjames Posted February 2, 2018 Posted February 2, 2018 The reason why I said the origional is that even though Nunes claims that the edits are minor and inconsequential, it's still good to know what the edits are. Also, word has been leaking from the WH that some think it may be a dud or just otherwise not up to the hype that's been generated. https://www.axios.com/release-memo-trump-fbi-mueller-wray-nunes-55bd411a-a313-416d-bf48-0e759789f478.html Also2, the Axios bit says that he wants to release with no redactions (things like FBI agent names and other stuff that could cause problems for the Intel community if released), but I've read elsewhere that they are doing some redactions. editwhiletyping: And apparently a spokesperson for Paul Ryan said that he supports releasing the Democrat memo? Wonder what changed his mind.
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