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Multi-class passives should halve in value.


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9 replies to this topic

#1
Erik-Dirk

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The versatility of multi-class is not what's killing single class, it is the strong passive abilities.

Realistically the only way I can see that multi-class can resemble a balance, is if all passives are halved in value, multiclass receive around double ability points, and the passives for each tier are available at the same time as single class.

For example this would mean carnage does half damage and any weapon proc on hit chance would be halved.

 

Obviously there should be a couple of exceptions, e.g. increased focus gain, pet passives etc. (Although these should take 2 ability points if multi-class get double the points at level up)

 

Abilities should still only cost one point as given the respective class resource is halved the ability is theoretically worth half.

 

Some active abilities should also be halved. E.g. Marked Prey

 

 

 


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#2
hilfazer

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Is it double ability points now? It used to be much less. Also there is/was a bug granting more ability points, maybe it's for multiclass only.

 

Carnage is no longer a weapon attack so no procs.



#3
AndreaColombo

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It's +1 talent point every time a new power level is unlocked, for a total 7 extra talent points at level 19.

 

Indeed, there's a bug in the current beta build where multi-classed characters receive +2 talent points on those levels instead. This should be kept into consideration, as it makes multi-classed characters more powerful than intended.

 

Personally, I'm not a fan of making multi-classed characters unlock power levels at the same pace as single classes. This should remain a key advantage of the latter over the former. If you take it away, it also becomes impossible to lock multi classes out of the higher-tier powers, which is also something that I believe it makes sense to restrict to single classes.


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#4
Erik-Dirk

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Sorry for the confusion, I actually meant that multi-class should receive double points if the value of their passives are halved although the current 1 & 2/3 would probably be better

 

I also wasn't suggesting that multiclass have access to the same active abilities only the same passive abilities (at half value) 



#5
hilfazer

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Sorry for the confusion, I actually meant that multi-class should receive double points if the value of their passives are halved although the current 1 & 2/3 would probably be better

 

It wasn't confusing, i just misread. Sorry.



#6
theBalthazar

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I also wasn't suggesting that multiclass have access to the same active abilities only the same passive abilities (at half value) 

 

 

Extremely difficult to balance (and put in place). All is not as simple as "divided by 2".

 

Because if you have this system, passives abilities become less attractive and you go to active abilities. Problem is moved, not changed.


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#7
Bazy

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I also wasn't suggesting that multiclass have access to the same active abilities only the same passive abilities (at half value) 

 

 

Extremely difficult to balance (and put in place). All is not as simple as "divided by 2".

 

Because if you have this system, passives abilities become less attractive and you go to active abilities. Problem is moved, not changed.

 

Agreed. The problem isn't so much the power of the passives, but the overarching system. 

 

Passives do not require resources, last indefinitely, and can stack and synergize with each other.

 

In contrast, actives compete for limited resources (class power, time), are limited in duration, are only usable one at a time, and don't really synergize well with each other. 

 

Regardless of how hard you nerf passives, I would still find it hard not to take the. Even if passives were Awful you would still only take a couple of active abilities because they compete with each other for resources. 



#8
Erik-Dirk

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I also wasn't suggesting that multiclass have access to the same active abilities only the same passive abilities (at half value) 

 

 

Extremely difficult to balance (and put in place). All is not as simple as "divided by 2".

 

Because if you have this system, passives abilities become less attractive and you go to active abilities. Problem is moved, not changed.

 

Agreed. The problem isn't so much the power of the passives, but the overarching system. 

 

Passives do not require resources, last indefinitely, and can stack and synergize with each other.

 

In contrast, actives compete for limited resources (class power, time), are limited in duration, are only usable one at a time, and don't really synergize well with each other. 

 

Regardless of how hard you nerf passives, I would still find it hard not to take the. Even if passives were Awful you would still only take a couple of active abilities because they compete with each other for resources. 

 

Ummm.... I believe you just agreed with theBalthazar, then proceed to contradict everything that was said  :w00t: 
Anyway, halving the value of passives will make actives more appealing true but, as Bazy said, given that abilities will consume class resource the only power gained by selecting abilities will be through versitility (Which is kinda the point of multi-class)

Bazy, the idea is not to make passives useless to a multi-class but rather bring them back in line with single-class.

Take the example of two level 1 barbarian/ciphers compared to a barbarian and a cipher.

Currently each barbarian/cipher does 120% primary damage plus carnage                                                (Total = 240% primary + 240% carnage) 

If we halve the passives then we get 110% primary damage and 60% carnage                                           (Total =220% primary +120% carnage)

One of each single class gives, 120% primary damage (cipher), 100% primary damage + 100% carnage (Total = 220% Primary +100% carnage)

 

As you can see even with half passives the multi-class is still superior, however the difference, while significant, is relatively minor so can more realistically  be made up through access to higher tier abilities.


Edited by Erik-Dirk, 14 January 2018 - 11:00 PM.


#9
TheC

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In my opinion, I believe the balance between multiclass and single will be made at high level. Its impossible to see if it is balanced until we see a single classes performance with its later abilities that a multiclass character will not have.


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#10
Erik-Dirk

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In my opinion, I believe the balance between multiclass and single will be made at high level. Its impossible to see if it is balanced until we see a single classes performance with its later abilities that a multiclass character will not have.

It's not ok for most single classes to be  very underpowered for the first 3/4 of the game. Especially since single class is supposedly the simpler build recommended for new players.






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