One problem about the new Resolve

[dunehunter]

Anyone realize that with the new Resolve system, pure casters will inevitably have to bump INT/RES. They also need stats in DEX/PER. Unless you manually bump constitution, your Fortitude defense will be extremely low... And there are no efficient way to boost it. You either spend a lot stats point into useless constitution or suffer from low fortitude defense and wait for being knocked down a lot...

Edited December 15, 2017 by dunehunter

[AndreaColombo]

From that standpoint I don't find that much of a difference.

 

Now they need MIG, DEX, PER, INT.

 

Later they'll need DEX, PER, INT, RES.

 

The difference is that their damage with weapons will suck in the new system, whereas it was good in the old one. Ciphers get gimped big time by this change, but so do Wizards that want to use summoned weapons (unless you decide to focus solely on those and dump RES in favor of STR.)

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

The biggest losers are ciphers, followed by shapeshifting druids and muscle wizards, then anyone who wants to play any kind of weapon/caster hybrid (ranger/ciphers, fighter/wizards, etc.)

 

It also makes things hard for scroll based casting builds but that might work out in play depending.

[dunehunter]

From that standpoint I don't find that much of a difference.

 

Now they need MIG, DEX, PER, INT.

 

Later they'll need DEX, PER, INT, RES.

 

The difference is that their damage with weapons will suck in the new system, whereas it was good in the old one. Ciphers get gimped big time by this change, but so do Wizards that want to use summoned weapons (unless you decide to focus solely on those and dump RES in favor of STR.)

Now all 3 defense is covered, after patch fortitude will always be a weakness for pure casters. That’s the point.

 

I mean with the new system. Pure casters have to waste stats points to cover fortitude, if they don’t, they suffer natural weakenss in fortitude which is not so obvious in current patch(because now they will always have some points in Might).

 

You can try to build a wizard based on new system, dump Mig bump Res, you will have around 20-30 fortitude defense

Edited December 15, 2017 by dunehunter

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Eh, you can generally get away with leaving one defense relatively low without it being a big deal, especially as a back rank caster. In emergencies there are buffs.

[Gromnir]

on the positive side, the compulsive min-maxers may actual come to realize how the less extreme stat spreads is both effective (even for potd runs) and open up dialogue/cutscene options they were previous cheating themselves o' experiencing... at least w/o benefits o' metagame. 

 

at worst, call it a wash.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[dam]

I must have missed it, what's the planned change with Resolve ?

[AndreaColombo]

I must have missed it, what's the planned change with Resolve ?

 

Really?

 

Resolve gets Healing and Spell Damage, Might gets changed to Strength and only affects weapon damage.

[dunehunter]

Eh, you can generally get away with leaving one defense relatively low without it being a big deal, especially as a back rank caster. In emergencies there are buffs.

 

Not sure about how smart the enemy AI will be, if they can see through your statistics then your casters will always be the target of their abilities which target fortitude...

[dam]

 

I must have missed it, what's the planned change with Resolve ?

 

Really?

 

Resolve gets Healing and Spell Damage, Might gets changed to Strength and only affects weapon damage.

 

Well, I'll have to see how it plays in game, but on paper I would think it's a change in the right direction.

 

Cipher with max mig + dex + int able to do both spell and weapon damage was always one of my favorites in POE1, but still didn't seem fair really.

[dam]

 

Eh, you can generally get away with leaving one defense relatively low without it being a big deal, especially as a back rank caster. In emergencies there are buffs.

 

Not sure about how smart the enemy AI will be, if they can see through your statistics then your casters will always be the target of their abilities which target fortitude...

 

You mean.. like.. we can ?

 

Works for me.

 

Either way, it always makes (made ?) sense in RPGs to drop casters first.

[KDubya]

A true min-max Wizard will dump Strength and add to Constitution at a 1:1

 

My Orlan would have a 2 Strength and an 18 Constitution. This will give a net zero effect on Fortitude but will get you +40% Health which will probably make your Wizard the hitpoint king which never hurts.

 

Weapon damage will be terrible but who cares? You will soon have so many spell casts per encounter that you won't run out. At level nine you'll have nine casts, spend three on instant cast buffs like Fleet Feet, Infuse with Essence and the best defensive buff you can get like Mirror Image or Liengrath's. That takes 1.2 seconds or so and you'll then have six spells to blast out. At 3 seconds per cast that'll occupy you for 18 seconds which should be sufficient for most non-boss encounters. This'll only get better as you level up more and get more spell casts.

 

With your damage so low anyway with weapons, activating some of the powerful weapon modals will not make much difference. Dual wield a dagger and a hatchet and activate both modals for a big deflection boost and hinder your attackers accuracy. Use a pike to debuff enemies to assist your team, or a staff and increase your deflection.

 

As an extra bonus all that pumped up Resolve will also give you a deflection bonus.

 

I further expect public outcry to force Obsidian to change scepters, wands and rods to gain damage from Resolve instead of Strength so ranged auto-attacking will still be outstanding for a Wizard.

 

Meanwhile a Fighter will not be dumping Resolve as it'll affect their Constant recovery, shortages of points will probably mean that it'll stay at ten so this will just be a nerf of Fighter regen of 25%+.

 

Paladins will also like to have a good Resolve for healing and sacred immolation so they'll be stretched for points.

 

Barbarians will want Resolve for their heal so no dump stat for them.

 

Monks might not have any sort of healing or spell damage so they might be able to dump Resolve but as long as its also tied to deflection this might not be prudent.

 

Rogues might also fall in with Monks as being able to dump Resolve but going more glassy on an already glass cannon might not be a good idea.

 

Bottomline only Wizards are going to have a true dump stat after this change, everyone else will just be stretched for points. This of course does not break the game and might even serve to give Wizards something that makes them better while also further separating pure nuker Wizards from melee hybrid multi-classes. 

[dunehunter]

A true min-max Wizard will dump Strength and add to Constitution at a 1:1

 

My Orlan would have a 2 Strength and an 18 Constitution. This will give a net zero effect on Fortitude but will get you +40% Health which will probably make your Wizard the hitpoint king which never hurts.

 

Weapon damage will be terrible but who cares? You will soon have so many spell casts per encounter that you won't run out. At level nine you'll have nine casts, spend three on instant cast buffs like Fleet Feet, Infuse with Essence and the best defensive buff you can get like Mirror Image or Liengrath's. That takes 1.2 seconds or so and you'll then have six spells to blast out. At 3 seconds per cast that'll occupy you for 18 seconds which should be sufficient for most non-boss encounters. This'll only get better as you level up more and get more spell casts.

 

With your damage so low anyway with weapons, activating some of the powerful weapon modals will not make much difference. Dual wield a dagger and a hatchet and activate both modals for a big deflection boost and hinder your attackers accuracy. Use a pike to debuff enemies to assist your team, or a staff and increase your deflection.

 

As an extra bonus all that pumped up Resolve will also give you a deflection bonus.

 

I further expect public outcry to force Obsidian to change scepters, wands and rods to gain damage from Resolve instead of Strength so ranged auto-attacking will still be outstanding for a Wizard.

 

Meanwhile a Fighter will not be dumping Resolve as it'll affect their Constant recovery, shortages of points will probably mean that it'll stay at ten so this will just be a nerf of Fighter regen of 25%+.

 

Paladins will also like to have a good Resolve for healing and sacred immolation so they'll be stretched for points.

 

Barbarians will want Resolve for their heal so no dump stat for them.

 

Monks might not have any sort of healing or spell damage so they might be able to dump Resolve but as long as its also tied to deflection this might not be prudent.

 

Rogues might also fall in with Monks as being able to dump Resolve but going more glassy on an already glass cannon might not be a good idea.

 

Bottomline only Wizards are going to have a true dump stat after this change, everyone else will just be stretched for points. This of course does not break the game and might even serve to give Wizards something that makes them better while also further separating pure nuker Wizards from melee hybrid multi-classes. 

 

Mmmm not sure if you will have enough points on other stats if u do 2 Str 18 Con tho, u need Dex for casting speed, Per for hit rate, Int for range and duration and Res is most important for you.

 

Unless u sacrifice some points, you really don't have points in Con

Edited December 16, 2017 by dunehunter

[KDubya]

 

A true min-max Wizard will dump Strength and add to Constitution at a 1:1

 

My Orlan would have a 2 Strength and an 18 Constitution. This will give a net zero effect on Fortitude but will get you +40% Health which will probably make your Wizard the hitpoint king which never hurts.

 

Weapon damage will be terrible but who cares? You will soon have so many spell casts per encounter that you won't run out. At level nine you'll have nine casts, spend three on instant cast buffs like Fleet Feet, Infuse with Essence and the best defensive buff you can get like Mirror Image or Liengrath's. That takes 1.2 seconds or so and you'll then have six spells to blast out. At 3 seconds per cast that'll occupy you for 18 seconds which should be sufficient for most non-boss encounters. This'll only get better as you level up more and get more spell casts.

 

With your damage so low anyway with weapons, activating some of the powerful weapon modals will not make much difference. Dual wield a dagger and a hatchet and activate both modals for a big deflection boost and hinder your attackers accuracy. Use a pike to debuff enemies to assist your team, or a staff and increase your deflection.

 

As an extra bonus all that pumped up Resolve will also give you a deflection bonus.

 

I further expect public outcry to force Obsidian to change scepters, wands and rods to gain damage from Resolve instead of Strength so ranged auto-attacking will still be outstanding for a Wizard.

 

Meanwhile a Fighter will not be dumping Resolve as it'll affect their Constant recovery, shortages of points will probably mean that it'll stay at ten so this will just be a nerf of Fighter regen of 25%+.

 

Paladins will also like to have a good Resolve for healing and sacred immolation so they'll be stretched for points.

 

Barbarians will want Resolve for their heal so no dump stat for them.

 

Monks might not have any sort of healing or spell damage so they might be able to dump Resolve but as long as its also tied to deflection this might not be prudent.

 

Rogues might also fall in with Monks as being able to dump Resolve but going more glassy on an already glass cannon might not be a good idea.

 

Bottomline only Wizards are going to have a true dump stat after this change, everyone else will just be stretched for points. This of course does not break the game and might even serve to give Wizards something that makes them better while also further separating pure nuker Wizards from melee hybrid multi-classes. 

 

Mmmm not sure if you will have enough points on other stats if u do 2 Str 18 Con tho, u need Dex for casting speed, Per for hit rate, Int for range and duration and Res is most important for you.

 

Unless u sacrifice some points, you really don't have points in Con

 

 

The points you place in Con are the ones you took from Strength. If you don't do that and just dump Strength then your Fortitude is going to be terrible.

 

You can go something like 

Str 2

Con 18

Dex 15

Per 13

Int 15

Res 15

 

This keeps your Fortitude neutral while getting you +40% health. Effectively dumping Strength into Constitution makes you much tankier for free.

 

If you don't care about bad Fortitude you can go with:

Str 2

Con 10

Dex 16

Per 15 

Int 15

Res 20

 

I personally prefer the tankier/healthier Wizard option, it has only benefits without any downsides. 

[Kaylon]

 

 

A true min-max Wizard will dump Strength and add to Constitution at a 1:1

 

My Orlan would have a 2 Strength and an 18 Constitution. This will give a net zero effect on Fortitude but will get you +40% Health which will probably make your Wizard the hitpoint king which never hurts.

 

Weapon damage will be terrible but who cares? You will soon have so many spell casts per encounter that you won't run out. At level nine you'll have nine casts, spend three on instant cast buffs like Fleet Feet, Infuse with Essence and the best defensive buff you can get like Mirror Image or Liengrath's. That takes 1.2 seconds or so and you'll then have six spells to blast out. At 3 seconds per cast that'll occupy you for 18 seconds which should be sufficient for most non-boss encounters. This'll only get better as you level up more and get more spell casts.

 

With your damage so low anyway with weapons, activating some of the powerful weapon modals will not make much difference. Dual wield a dagger and a hatchet and activate both modals for a big deflection boost and hinder your attackers accuracy. Use a pike to debuff enemies to assist your team, or a staff and increase your deflection.

 

As an extra bonus all that pumped up Resolve will also give you a deflection bonus.

 

I further expect public outcry to force Obsidian to change scepters, wands and rods to gain damage from Resolve instead of Strength so ranged auto-attacking will still be outstanding for a Wizard.

 

Meanwhile a Fighter will not be dumping Resolve as it'll affect their Constant recovery, shortages of points will probably mean that it'll stay at ten so this will just be a nerf of Fighter regen of 25%+.

 

Paladins will also like to have a good Resolve for healing and sacred immolation so they'll be stretched for points.

 

Barbarians will want Resolve for their heal so no dump stat for them.

 

Monks might not have any sort of healing or spell damage so they might be able to dump Resolve but as long as its also tied to deflection this might not be prudent.

 

Rogues might also fall in with Monks as being able to dump Resolve but going more glassy on an already glass cannon might not be a good idea.

 

Bottomline only Wizards are going to have a true dump stat after this change, everyone else will just be stretched for points. This of course does not break the game and might even serve to give Wizards something that makes them better while also further separating pure nuker Wizards from melee hybrid multi-classes. 

 

Mmmm not sure if you will have enough points on other stats if u do 2 Str 18 Con tho, u need Dex for casting speed, Per for hit rate, Int for range and duration and Res is most important for you.

 

Unless u sacrifice some points, you really don't have points in Con

 

 

The points you place in Con are the ones you took from Strength. If you don't do that and just dump Strength then your Fortitude is going to be terrible.

 

You can go something like 

Str 2

Con 18

Dex 15

Per 13

Int 15

Res 15

 

This keeps your Fortitude neutral while getting you +40% health. Effectively dumping Strength into Constitution makes you much tankier for free.

 

If you don't care about bad Fortitude you can go with:

Str 2

Con 10

Dex 16

Per 15 

Int 15

Res 20

 

I personally prefer the tankier/healthier Wizard option, it has only benefits without any downsides. 

 

In PoE1 pure casters would have 18mig, 3con, 15dex, 18per, 18int, 3res. With the new system it will be 3mig, 3con, 15dex, 18per, 18int, 18res. The fortitude will be indeed very low for casters, however I don't see it being a problem if there are few effects targeting directly fortitude (in PoE1 most were secondary effects linked to melee attacks).

[KDubya]

Both Necrotic Lance and the corrosive fireball which I can't remember the name of, target Fortitude and are popular spell choices for the enemy, at least based on what we've seen in the Beta. A 3 con, 3 str mage will be targeted and probably critted by an opposing mage as a first action. Getting one-shotted at the start of the fight looks like a bad idea.

[dunehunter]

Both Necrotic Lance and the corrosive fireball which I can't remember the name of, target Fortitude and are popular spell choices for the enemy, at least based on what we've seen in the Beta. A 3 con, 3 str mage will be targeted and probably critted by an opposing mage as a first action. Getting one-shotted at the start of the fight looks like a bad idea.

 

Yeah specially if u go 3Str 3Con, you have around 20 fortitude, that means you will almost always got critted by fortitude-target spells...

[AndreaColombo]

@KDubya — what Healing do Barbarians get?

[KDubya]

@KDubya — what Healing do Barbarians get?

 

They get the tier four 'Savage Defiance' that gives them +5 Con, +4 armor and 10 health per 3 seconds for the 15 second duration. I'm assuming that the heal component there is adjusted by your Resolve. 

 

Granted its not 'Lay on Hands' but a heal is a heal and the other buffs are nice.

 

Plus there is always 'Second Wind'

[AndreaColombo]

Ah, true—the update from Hardy to Robust. I had forgotten.

 

With a Fighter/Berserker multi (and after the removal of Healing from MIG), I’ll probably opt for the alternative talent that makes you deal Raw damage over time. Though the double Healing with high MIG could have been glorious. One more reason for me to dislike the change.

[KDubya]

Ah, true—the update from Hardy to Robust. I had forgotten.

 

With a Fighter/Berserker multi (and after the removal of Healing from MIG), I’ll probably opt for the alternative talent that makes you deal Raw damage over time. Though the double Healing with high MIG could have been glorious. One more reason for me to dislike the change.

 

I'd guess that for a Berserker/Fighter you'd be keeping Resolve at base anyway just to avoid a penalty on your Constant Regen. You lose the bonus that your pumped Might would have given you but it still is one of the best reasons to be a Fighter.

 

Savage Defiance would work better on a Corpse Eater or a Mage Slayer as the Berserker's Frenzy is going to interfere with the Robust buff from Savage Defiance. Unless you use it after your Frenzy wears off .... I guess it comes down to how much healing support your team can throw towards the Berserker and how much he has to carry his own weight.